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Author Topic: OT:Will Michelle Obama or Cindy Mc Cain help/hurt  (Read 3772 times)
NIATROSS
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« Reply #50 on: June 17, 2008, 11:44:47 PM »

I didn't make the statement. The person who makes the statement should be able to provide documentation to support their statement. It's not up to me to prove a negative. Nice try, though.


You clearly posted he is not a racist without any proof to back it up.Your argument is with someone else to prove he is not with me .You clearly posted he is NOT A RACIST without backing it up and I am waiting for your proof.


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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #51 on: June 17, 2008, 11:47:57 PM »

You clearly posted he is not a racist without any proof to back it up.Your argument is with someone else to prove he is not with me .You clearly posted he is NOT A RACIST without backing it up and I am waiting for your proof.

I've never seen anything to suggest that either candidate is a racist. Why do you think Obama is a racist, Niatross?
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #52 on: June 18, 2008, 12:03:15 AM »

I've never seen anything to suggest that either candidate is a racist. Why do you think Obama is a racist, Niatross?


Yes I do,because I think everyone is a racist to a certain degree.I know is politically correct for everyone to say they are not but when emotions run high people's real feelings always come out especially if alcohol is involved.

Take a quick look at HORSEVOICE'S post in my Celtic thread today.His racist higher than thou real thoughts come out when he throws out me going out to hug some cornstalk in INDIANA.
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« Reply #53 on: June 18, 2008, 04:46:51 AM »

I don't think anybody thinks that. But I think if you make the statement that Obama is a racist, you should be able to back it up. But, of course, none of you right wingers is able anything up, because it's all just innuendo.


Well Moon,

I havent said that Barack Obama is a racist. Based upon what few ideas he has proposed, I believe he is more to the left then Hillary is and that Obama is a Socialist. I do not believe he told us the complete truth about Reverend Wright. I believe his position of being willing to go and negotiate with anybody just because he can is disturbing.

I believe his themne of "change" is not accurate, especially when you look at the many advisors he has who at one time worked for Jimmy Carter. I believe people need to review his life and career more.

As far as racist is concerned, I believe that Michelle Obama's comments about finally being proud of the United States are closer to being racistr then what I have heard Barack say.
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« Reply #54 on: June 18, 2008, 09:30:56 PM »


Well Moon,

I havent said that Barack Obama is a racist. Based upon what few ideas he has proposed, I believe he is more to the left then Hillary is and that Obama is a Socialist. I do not believe he told us the complete truth about Reverend Wright. I believe his position of being willing to go and negotiate with anybody just because he can is disturbing.

I believe his themne of "change" is not accurate, especially when you look at the many advisors he has who at one time worked for Jimmy Carter. I believe people need to review his life and career more.

As far as racist is concerned, I believe that Michelle Obama's comments about finally being proud of the United States are closer to being racistr then what I have heard Barack say.

All right, that's fair and reasonable.

Hillary was calling for Universal Health Care and forcing people to buy insurance. Obama said he would NOT force people to buy health insurance, just make it available to everyone. So, at least on that point, I wouldn't say he was to the left of Hillary.

The whole "finally being proud of America" thing has been blown way out of proportion. Does anybody except the far right wing nuts think Michelle Obama hates America? Come on. That's just more foolish hype to support the far Right agenda.

I think the "negotiate without conditions" is better than the Bush "you're either with us or against us" attitude, don't you?

EVERYBODY wants change. I was never impressed by the Obama "Change" platform, because who doesn't want change after the horror that is the Bush Administration? (except maybe McCain - it looks like McCain has completely surrendered to the far right "War is Good, Jesus can be used to justify ANYTHING" crowd)
« Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 09:35:26 PM by Moon » Report to moderator   Logged
Moon
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« Reply #55 on: June 18, 2008, 09:32:27 PM »

You clearly posted he is not a racist without any proof to back it up.Your argument is with someone else to prove he is not with me .You clearly posted he is NOT A RACIST without backing it up and I am waiting for your proof.




That was when I was calling for proof that he was racist. Sheesh.
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« Reply #56 on: June 19, 2008, 01:49:33 AM »

All right, that's fair and reasonable.

Hillary was calling for Universal Health Care and forcing people to buy insurance. Obama said he would NOT force people to buy health insurance, just make it available to everyone. So, at least on that point, I wouldn't say he was to the left of Hillary.

The whole "finally being proud of America" thing has been blown way out of proportion. Does anybody except the far right wing nuts think Michelle Obama hates America? Come on. That's just more foolish hype to support the far Right agenda.

I think the "negotiate without conditions" is better than the Bush "you're either with us or against us" attitude, don't you?

EVERYBODY wants change. I was never impressed by the Obama "Change" platform, because who doesn't want change after the horror that is the Bush Administration? (except maybe McCain - it looks like McCain has completely surrendered to the far right "War is Good, Jesus can be used to justify ANYTHING" crowd)


Moon,

Come on. Michelle Obama did not say this was the proudest she has ever been to be an American. At least there you could predicate her statement by saying she has been proud all along but this was her best moment. When you say you are "finally proud", the predication is that you havent been before and that is what upsets people.

Go back and look at when President Bush said that you were either with us or against us. It was right after 9/11. For the first time in history, the mainland United States had been attacked by foreign enemies. Our capital city and largest city had just been attacked and an attack against the home of our President or federal governing body was thwarted. How is that not the proper time to say that? I dont care id the President's name was Bush or Clinton. That was the right thing to say.

In my opinion, it would be wrong for ANY United States President to have a policy to negotiate with anybody. I am not talking about the usual State Department behind closed doors meeting that you never know about. I am talking about the actual President.

Regardless of political party and what you may think of the individual President, the President of the United States meeting with any leader gives that leader credibility. All these leaders use the photo op with the President and that picture of sitting in the Oval Office in front of that fire place or standing in the Rose Garden as their sign that that individual leader has the backing of the United States. You dont just go out and say you will meet with anybody at any time.

And far as Obama and his "change" mantra is concerned. There comes a point in the next couple of months where he needs to explain his change to what. The man keeps talking about being against the Washington Establishment and the need for change. Well start to look at his advisiors.

People talk about this President Bush surrounded himself with all of "Daddy's old friends" from the 1970's. Well, go take a look at the people advising Obama on foreign policy. Do we really want to revisit the Carter Administration?
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« Reply #57 on: June 19, 2008, 08:46:12 AM »


Moon,

Come on. Michelle Obama did not say this was the proudest she has ever been to be an American. At least there you could predicate her statement by saying she has been proud all along but this was her best moment. When you say you are "finally proud", the predication is that you havent been before and that is what upsets people.

Go back and look at when President Bush said that you were either with us or against us. It was right after 9/11. For the first time in history, the mainland United States had been attacked by foreign enemies. Our capital city and largest city had just been attacked and an attack against the home of our President or federal governing body was thwarted. How is that not the proper time to say that? I dont care id the President's name was Bush or Clinton. That was the right thing to say.

In my opinion, it would be wrong for ANY United States President to have a policy to negotiate with anybody. I am not talking about the usual State Department behind closed doors meeting that you never know about. I am talking about the actual President.

Regardless of political party and what you may think of the individual President, the President of the United States meeting with any leader gives that leader credibility. All these leaders use the photo op with the President and that picture of sitting in the Oval Office in front of that fire place or standing in the Rose Garden as their sign that that individual leader has the backing of the United States. You dont just go out and say you will meet with anybody at any time.

And far as Obama and his "change" mantra is concerned. There comes a point in the next couple of months where he needs to explain his change to what. The man keeps talking about being against the Washington Establishment and the need for change. Well start to look at his advisiors.

People talk about this President Bush surrounded himself with all of "Daddy's old friends" from the 1970's. Well, go take a look at the people advising Obama on foreign policy. Do we really want to revisit the Carter Administration?

Bush kept the "either your with us or against us" statement going LONG after 9/11. He still will not negotiate or even talk with anyone who didn't blindly support him in his war.

It's better to meet and talk with people than start wars, I would think. Under Bush, foreign policy degenerated into calling people "evil" or mocking them - Freedom Fries, anyone? That's a big part of the reason the world is moving on without us. Euros are taking over as the currency of choice, we don't get first shot at scarce commodities like oil,  the biggest casinos - Macao, the biggest stock exchange - Dubai, there's a whole list of stuff that we no longer are the leaders in, just because the rest of the world has decided that we're too immature to handle this stuff. Nice legacy for the Bush administration - the downfall of the US as THE Superpower. And he did it in 7 years.
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #58 on: June 19, 2008, 09:20:57 AM »

That was when I was calling for proof that he was racist. Sheesh.

SHEESH !

So I guess  you just took the childish response to the other poster and said he was not instead of providing proof he wasn't or making them provide proof he was.

Either way you posted he was NOT a racist and did NOT provide any proof which makes you as guilty as the other poster.


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« Last Edit: June 19, 2008, 10:07:05 AM by NIATROSS » Report to moderator   Logged
mel4600
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« Reply #59 on: June 19, 2008, 09:51:49 AM »

SHEESH !

So I guess  you just took the childish response to the other poster and said he was not instead of providing proof he wasn't or making them provide proof he was.

Either way you posted he was NOT a racist and did provide any proof which makes you as guilty as the other poster.


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Niatross,

Moon is the same guy that said 100% of our oil in ANWR is going to China. I asked for proof and now he is asking for proof about the Obama's being racist. Would it be enough proof to say that he went regularly for 20 years to listen to those racist sermons by Rev. Wright? Any sane person would not subject themselves and their families through that.

If I attended KKK meetings for 20 years would you not assume I was racist? Moon won't accept this answer for whatever reason and you guys on the harness side made him #1 on the ignored list.
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #60 on: June 19, 2008, 10:06:08 AM »

Niatross,

Moon is the same guy that said 100% of our oil in ANWR is going to China. I asked for proof and now he is asking for proof about the Obama's being racist. Would it be enough proof to say that he went regularly for 20 years to listen to those racist sermons by Rev. Wright? Any sane person would not subject themselves and their families through that.

If I attended KKK meetings for 20 years would you not assume I was racist? Moon won't accept this answer for whatever reason and you guys on the harness side made him #1 on the ignored list.

Mel,

I would have had more respect for OBAMA if he had stood his ground and continued to go the same church and supported his minister instead of bailing out after all the publicity.People get all apologetic after something becomes public instead of doing the right thing to begin with.

I think MOON may become the #2 on the ignore list NOBODY will surpass the " IDIOT MACDDDI " !
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Moon
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« Reply #61 on: June 19, 2008, 10:36:13 AM »

Niatross,

Moon is the same guy that said 100% of our oil in ANWR is going to China. I asked for proof and now he is asking for proof about the Obama's being racist. Would it be enough proof to say that he went regularly for 20 years to listen to those racist sermons by Rev. Wright? Any sane person would not subject themselves and their families through that.

If I attended KKK meetings for 20 years would you not assume I was racist? Moon won't accept this answer for whatever reason and you guys on the harness side made him #1 on the ignored list.

How many times did I respond to that with a clear path to how that was going to happen? 10? If you choose not to believe what I said, that's up to you. But don't say I didn't show you how it would happen.

When I asked for proof that Obama is racist, I get NOTHING. And then, the next day, that same person who wouldn't supply any proof says "Obama is racist" AGAIN. That's what I call BS.
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Moon
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« Reply #62 on: June 19, 2008, 10:49:15 AM »

If association with church people who say wacky stuff is the determination, then the whole Republican party who kowtow to Pat Robertson is guilty of worse than Obama. Really, these people practically kiss Robertson's ring every 4 years.

Television evangelist Pat Robertson suggested Thursday that Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's stroke was divine retribution for the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza, which Robertson opposed.

I didn't hear any right wing complaints about that, and McCain went to Robertson to ask for his blessing.

He last stirred controversy in August, when he called for the assassination of Venezuela's president, Hugo Chavez.

He called for the murder of Chavez, but nobody quoted the 10 Commandments on him.

He linked Sharon's health problems to the 1995 assassination of Israeli leader Yitzhak Rabin, who signed the Oslo peace accords that granted limited self-rule to Palestinians.

How about Rev. Hagee:

With a Youtube link to prove his point, Catholic League president Bill Donohue said Hagee "has waged an unrelenting war against the Catholic Church. For example, he likes calling it 'The Great Whore,' an 'apostate church,' the 'anti-Christ,' and a 'false cult system.' ..."Senator Obama has repudiated the endorsement of Louis Farrakhan, another bigot. McCain should follow suit and retract his embrace of Hagee." ...

McCain spox Jill Hazelbaker says, "Hagee endorsed John McCain. While we welcome his support, it shouldn't be seen as a wholesale endorsement of all of Mr. Hagee's views."

MARCH 11, 2008: John McCain defended Pastor Hagee's comments today, saying he believe Hagee's claims that his statements were taken out of context:

    I will say that he said that his words were taken out of context, he defends his position. I hope that maybe you'd give him a chance to respond. He says he has never been anti-Catholic, but I repudiate the words that create that impression.


That sounds EXACTLY like what Obama said about Wright. But Obama is a racist and McCain is NOT a bigot.
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Moon
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« Reply #63 on: June 19, 2008, 10:51:01 AM »

Mel,

I would have had more respect for OBAMA if he had stood his ground and continued to go the same church and supported his minister instead of bailing out after all the publicity.People get all apologetic after something becomes public instead of doing the right thing to begin with.


I think Obama bailed out on Wright because he DOESN'T agree with him. He understands where the hate comes from, but doesn't agree with it.
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #64 on: June 19, 2008, 11:16:31 AM »

I think Obama bailed out on Wright because he DOESN'T agree with him. He understands where the hate comes from, but doesn't agree with it.


You are entitled to your opinon.What I have a problem with is like I said OBAMA went to THE CHURCH for yrs and said or did nothing yet when the minister made headlines and after weeks of waiting to see if it would blow over made " THE POLITICAL DECISION "  to quit this church.It is similar to all the people who get busted for poor behaviour and then seek help to salvage their careers and lives .MEL GIBSON,MICHAEL RICHARDS,NY GOV.,.

It just does not happen over night,if he DISAGREED with it why not quit earlier not in the middle of a PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN ? That does not sound any " CHANGE " to me it sounds like the same old political  BS.
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« Reply #65 on: June 19, 2008, 11:22:26 AM »

Absolutely, Tross.  The guy is as two-faced as they come - a good poker player, as he puts it.

BTW, the NY Gov was Elliot Spitzer.
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We can produce more wealth, but we cannot produce more time.  When we give someone our time, we actually give a portion of our life that we will never get back.
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« Reply #66 on: June 19, 2008, 11:33:06 AM »


You are entitled to your opinon.What I have a problem with is like I said OBAMA went to THE CHURCH for yrs and said or did nothing yet when the minister made headlines and after weeks of waiting to see if it would blow over made " THE POLITICAL DECISION "  to quit this church.It is similar to all the people who get busted for poor behaviour and then seek help to salvage their careers and lives .MEL GIBSON,MICHAEL RICHARDS,NY GOV.,.

It just does not happen over night,if he DISAGREED with it why not quit earlier not in the middle of a PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN ? That does not sound any " CHANGE " to me it sounds like the same old political  BS.

But you don't have a problem with McCain actively seeking out Hagee and Robertson's endorsement, even AFTER he knew about the bigoted statements made by them? I'm just trying to be clear on that.

It's OK if MY guy does it, but if the other guy does it, it's horrible? Is that the rule?
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mel4600
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« Reply #67 on: June 19, 2008, 11:35:04 AM »

How many times did I respond to that with a clear path to how that was going to happen? 10?

You have not shown one thread of evidence to prove your point. Where is your proof?
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« Reply #68 on: June 19, 2008, 11:44:00 AM »

You have not shown one thread of evidence to prove your point. Where is your proof?

It's a theory, based on the evidence presented. Namely that the Asians will pay a LOT more money than we will for this oil, the shipping costs to Asia are 1/10 of the cost to ship to California and there is nothing in the bill that prevents them from shipping this oil to Asia.

Hey, maybe I'm wrong - the international oil companies have shown they are willing to sacrifice profit for the benefit of the US so many times before. Tongue
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #69 on: June 19, 2008, 11:50:19 AM »

But you don't have a problem with McCain actively seeking out Hagee and Robertson's endorsement, even AFTER he knew about the bigoted statements made by them? I'm just trying to be clear on that.

It's OK if MY guy does it, but if the other guy does it, it's horrible? Is that the rule?


No ! I never said it was OK for McCAIN to do so,so it is not the rule.The bigger difference is one of the two is preaching it is time for " CHANGE " and the other isn't.

" CHANGE " simply put means it is time for the black people and black voters to be heard.It is a more politcally correct way of saying it is " OUR TURN " without mentioning the words race or racist.
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mel4600
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« Reply #70 on: June 19, 2008, 11:55:07 AM »

It's a theory, based on the evidence presented. Namely that the Asians will pay a LOT more money than we will for this oil, the shipping costs to Asia are 1/10 of the cost to ship to California and there is nothing in the bill that prevents them from shipping this oil to Asia.

Hey, maybe I'm wrong - the international oil companies have shown they are willing to sacrifice profit for the benefit of the US so many times before. Tongue

I now fully accept your answer as a personal theory, and I would also include in the bill that all oil on US soil is to be used in the US only.
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« Reply #71 on: June 19, 2008, 11:55:52 AM »

How can 12% of the population win an election? If it's just about Black voters, Obama is screwed.

Change is NOT about "the horrible black people are going to take over the country" - change is about getting away from the failed policies of the Bush administration.
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #72 on: June 19, 2008, 12:21:19 PM »

How can 12% of the population win an election? If it's just about Black voters, Obama is screwed.

Change is NOT about "the horrible black people are going to take over the country" - change is about getting away from the failed policies of the Bush administration.



Where did I say anything about the horrible black people are going to take over the country ? If you could stop looking at others  as being a racist and not yourself perhaps you would have a different perspective.The guy did nothing to suggest he is a person of CHANGE as a SENATOR from IL but play the same game as all the others.

You can spin the " CHANGE " part anyone you want.I have lived and worked among the poorest of blacks and have a few who are better friends to me than anyone else so I think I have an understanding and appreciation for what is being said.There is racism that exists today down south in GA,AL etc that I experienced first hand,so if  you have not done so yourself you lack a critical point of view and don't pretend you know how black people think and speak.
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« Reply #73 on: June 19, 2008, 02:31:52 PM »



Where did I say anything about the horrible black people are going to take over the country ? If you could stop looking at others  as being a racist and not yourself perhaps you would have a different perspective.The guy did nothing to suggest he is a person of CHANGE as a SENATOR from IL but play the same game as all the others.

You can spin the " CHANGE " part anyone you want.I have lived and worked among the poorest of blacks and have a few who are better friends to me than anyone else so I think I have an understanding and appreciation for what is being said.There is racism that exists today down south in GA,AL etc that I experienced first hand,so if  you have not done so yourself you lack a critical point of view and don't pretend you know how black people think and speak.

Uh,

Quote
" CHANGE " simply put means it is time for the black people and black voters to be heard.It is a more politcally correct way of saying it is " OUR TURN " without mentioning the words race or racist.

What does "OUR TURN" mean?
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