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Author Topic: OT: The Price of Gasoline, I think it's important!  (Read 4469 times)
samstar
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« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2008, 06:42:51 PM »

Talking head, I give you three good shots at what we might do about the energy problem and  you come up with a lame shot at George Bush.  Can't handle the facts?
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« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2008, 06:51:13 PM »

Talking head, I give you three good shots at what we might do about the energy problem and  you come up with a lame shot at George Bush.  Can't handle the facts?
You like to blame everyone else but George W for the gas problem! 
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JOHN W
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« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2008, 07:24:22 PM »

I DID THINK THAT WE HAD POSSIBLE OIL FIELDS OF OUR OWN BUT BECAUSE OF CERTAIN ENVIROMENTAL CONCERNS WE ARE UNABE TO PURSUE THESE OPTIONS.... IT IS TO BAD THAT THESE GROUPS CANNOT SEE THE FOREST FOR THE TREES. MAYBE THEY WOULD PREFER US TO BE LIVING IN CAVES AND LIGHTING OUR FIRES WITH RECYCLED T.P.

MY REAL CONCERN IS HOW MUCH IS THE AMERICAN PUBLIC WILLING TO SACRIFICE AND HOW MUCH MORE DEBT CAN WE INCUR BEFORE WE SEE THE LIGHT?HuhHuh  I ENJOY BEING ABLE TO PAY OFF MY CREDIT CARD EVERY MONTH, BUT WITH THE WAY THINGS ARE GOING I WILL NOT HOLD MY BREATH AS TO HOW MUCH LONGER MYSELF AND OTHERS WILL BE ABLE TO DO THIS. IF THEY CAN EVEN DO IT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




JOHN W Your questions are great.

1. If we started using our strategic reserves, we would end up without strategic reserves. I would feel pretty naked
under those circumstances.  The use of petroleum is  down by 3  to 7% in this country and the price has still gong way up. The addition of the Strategic supply wouldn't make a dent in prices.

2. We don't start fights to take territory, and I don't think we are  going to start now.  That's what The Japanese tried to do to secure the materials they needed for their empire.

3. The congress as stopped every attempt at alternative fuels in their tracks. The air force wanted to finance the building of a coal conversion plant on one of it's underutilized bases to convert coal to jet fuel.  It was a great idea and congress stamped it out like a bug. We have not build a nuclear plant in the country since 1978 because of congresses attitude.  France generates 80% of it's power by nuclear, we generate 15% of ours by  nuclear.  Of course Nuclear is the cleanest, safest and most efficient power generation available but our congress says NO.  If we started generating electric power we could expect the natural gas providers to urge us to using natural gas for our automobiles.  of course if we built enough nuclear we could also use electricity for our cars.  If congress would let us convert coal to diesel and jet fuel, we would be energy efficient in no time.  Of course in the Utopian world where congress does the right thing for us instead of for their few buddies, we would be able to drill for our own oil to supply our reduced needs.

You are absolutely right that the democrats want to make the president look as bad as possible to increase the Dems chances of getting elected.  The Dems are deliberately misleading us for selfish reasons that in my opinion border on treason.
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Kenneth J. Chadwick
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« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2008, 05:55:05 AM »

To the Group:

I subscribe to an Investment Advisory Service called "Top Guns Trading."
Therefore all my "ideas" are not original.
Spend five minutes reading the article.
I have no financial interest other than sharing this individuals view.
I do follow his stock advice.
There's the disclosure.

Kenneth J. Chadwick

                                       The Big Picture: Let's Talk Oil
                                              By David Moenning


                                                “Let's Talk Oil”

May 24, 2008

To borrow a line from the theme song of one of the most memorable T.V. shows of my childhood, all anybody can talk about these days is “Bubblin’ crude, oil – that is, black gold, Texas tea.” And while it takes a little more these days to strike oil than simply “shootin’ at some food,” finding more oil seems to be job one in the global economy right now.

Although the credit crisis is still wreaking havoc in the money markets and the housing market continues to struggle mightily, the real topic of discussion in the stock market is the prolific rise of crude oil. Given that crude’s rise has been a rather rude 38% so far this year and that the price of the stuff has more than doubled over the past 12 months, there is a very good reason that “bubblin’ crude” is on everyone’s mind these days.

Yet, up to this point, the U.S. consumer has been fairly oblivious to the massive increase seen at the gasoline pump over the past couple of years. Sure, it is annoying to see the price tag of filling up the Suburban go up and up. But until very recently, most folks figured the move was temporary and that oil would eventually fall back to a more reasonable level. However, with crude prices breaking record after record this week and hitting an intraday high over $135 on Thursday, it is beginning to look like gasoline prices of $4 a gallon might not be so temporary after all.

So, with the realization that the consumer’s line in the sand has been crossed with a vengeance, it is little wonder that stocks sold off this week. After all, crude oil’s increase is bound to show up in the form of higher prices everywhere soon, which, of course means trouble for both the consumer and corporate America.


                                              The Big Boys Speak

Part of the reason for crude’s blast higher this week was that we got not one but two predictions of higher prices from people who have a track record of ‘getting it right.’ As we detailed in our morning reports this week, both T. Boone Pickens and the folks at Goldman Sachs (GS) projected that oil is heading higher – and for good reason. T. Boone said that we will see $150 this year and Goldman said oil will average $141 during the second half of the year.

Given that this dynamic duo has more than a little street credit on the subject, it is little wonder that traders decided to buy with both hands this week. Which, of course, brings us to the topic of the evil speculators.


                                           Blame It On The Speculators

In light of the fact that just about everybody is waking up to the idea that we’ve got a problem on our hands regarding energy, the natural tendency is to look for someone to blame. But, who do we blame for the price of oil going higher?

Congress appears to want to blame it on the oil companies – the very people who risk their lives finding the stuff and getting it to us. And since there is a great deal of talk about windfall profit taxes, all of a sudden the concept of making a profit is un-American.

Speaking of being un-American, it seems that most folks want to blame traders/speculators on the crude’s rude rise. But, do those crying foul even know what a “speculator” is or what they do? And does it really make sense to suddenly say to anyone who happens to trade for a living, “Hey guys, you can’t buy oil any more, you can only sell it.”

Hank Paulson, who, as the head guy at Goldman Sachs for many years might have learned a thing or two about “speculators,” came out this week and said that the rise in crude oil has little to do with traders. The Secretary of Treasury said that it’s really about basic the economic concept of supply and demand. Mr. Paulson went on to say that most traders are trend-followers and do not CREATE a trend. He also added that the so-called “evil speculators” can sell short as well when things don’t look good. So, given that the speculators continue to play the long side of the game, logic dictates that there must be a reason.


                                          Father Guido Sarducci Says…

Many years ago, Saturday Night Live had an popular skit featuring Father Guido Sarducci. The good Father would explain things in such a simple way that it usually wound up being quite humorous. He used to say that in economics, it all boils down to supply and demand. Okay, I will admit that maybe only those studying economics found this particular bit hysterical. But the point is today, he would be telling us to forget all the mumbo jumbo and look at the supply and demand of oil.

The math here is actually quite simple. All the data shows that demand for oil is rising on a global basis. And then when you start to factor in the industrialization of places like China, it is VERY easy to make the case the demand is NOT going to fall any time soon, regardless of the price (especially when you consider that governments in places like China subsidize the cost of fuel to their people).

On the supply side, the dirty little truth that no one wants to think or talk about is that the world’s supply of oil is falling and we have known this for a very long time. And word has it that the IEA is about to publish a report showing that the world’s supply of oil is going to fall 8% this year.

While we’re on the topic of supply, another target in the blame game is OPEC. People want to sling arrows at those with the monopoly on crude for withholding oil from us. However, if you know anything about the economics of oil, you know that OPEC does NOT want prices at these levels. You see, prices at these levels are actually bad for business in the long run.

For decades, OPEC did everything they could to keep the price low enough so as to discourage conservation or research into alternatives. Why would you want to drive people away from your product when you have a monopoly? The idea here is to get ‘em hooked and then keep ‘em hooked on your product.

The bottom line is that the oil producing countries are currently pumping every barrel of oil that is humanly possible. Forget about trying to keep us from finding alternatives. Nowadays, the goal of the OPEC countries is to simply cash in on the situation. Yes, there is more oil to be found in places like the Gulf, ANWR, and Saudi Arabia. But it takes time to develop the fields. So, the bottom line is that supply isn’t going to increase in any meaningful way in the near future.


                                                   Let’s Wrap This Up

We could go on about this topic for cyber-pages, but I’m sure most readers wouldn’t be able to stay awake all the way through. So, let’s wrap this up here. From a big-picture standpoint, the laws of supply and demand suggest that prices will rise over time. However, from a short-term perspective, the crude market has gotten more than a little frothy and those evil speculators might find a reason soon to “go the other way” for a while sometime soon.

But in the long run, we should probably be looking for crude prices to remain on the rude side.

Wishing you all the best for a profitable week ahead,

David D. Moenning
Co-Founder TopGunsTrading.com

« Last Edit: May 27, 2008, 09:06:17 AM by Kenneth J. Chadwick » Report to moderator   Logged

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samstar
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« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2008, 08:22:42 AM »

KJC and by reading all of these posts I thought it was Bush who was causing the price increase.

Nice Post!
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JOHN W
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« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2008, 08:41:26 AM »

 MY LAST COMMENT ON THE SUBJECT IS WHAT MY FATHER ,JOHN Sr., HAS FIGURED OUT. HE HAS INVESTED IN THE ENERGY STOCKS THAT SUPPORT HIGHER OIL PRICES; BUT HAS PURCHASED A  HYBRID CAR. GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE!!!!!
« Last Edit: May 27, 2008, 03:29:47 PM by JOHN W » Report to moderator   Logged
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« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2008, 10:14:15 AM »

You like to blame everyone else but George W for the gas problem! 

In all seriousness, could you please state some facts as to how any one president is responsible for the "gas problem".  Please, no accusations, no personal attacks & no calling anyone "naive".  Just some facts.
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edwarren
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« Reply #32 on: May 27, 2008, 11:23:27 AM »



haha we'll never know. Dick Cheney and the oil industry, foreign and domestic, wrote our energy policy in secret. He won't release the particulars to Congress or to the public claiming executive priviledge.
Our energy policy was written in secret.



What compels you to require proof?








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edwarren
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« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2008, 11:36:53 AM »

In all seriousness, could you please state some facts as to how any one president is responsible for the "gas problem".  Please, no accusations, no personal attacks & no calling anyone "naive".  Just some facts.

I might be a little late, arriving late to this thread, but

what compels you to require proof?

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talking head
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« Reply #34 on: May 27, 2008, 11:58:54 AM »

In all seriousness, could you please state some facts as to how any one president is responsible for the "gas problem".  Please, no accusations, no personal attacks & no calling anyone "naive".  Just some facts.
Look at the Dollar, its very very WEAK against the euro and other currencies! Since the dollar is worth alot less than it once did it costs more to buy oil with Dollars! Now why is the dollar so weak because of all the borrowing the government is doing to support this WORTHLESS WAR! The scary part is that this is just the tip of the iceberg!
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Kenneth J. Chadwick
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« Reply #35 on: May 27, 2008, 12:15:34 PM »

Look at the Dollar, its very very WEAK against the euro and other currencies! Since the dollar is worth alot less than it once did it costs more to buy oil with Dollars! Now why is the dollar so weak because of all the borrowing the government is doing to support this WORTHLESS WAR! The scary part is that this is just the tip of the iceberg!

How about the sub-prime mess?
That's primarily the problem.
The Fed's action to stimulate the economy.

Kenneth J. Chadwick
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Dolfan
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« Reply #36 on: May 27, 2008, 12:49:52 PM »

I might be a little late, arriving late to this thread, but
what compels you to require proof?

I just don't believe that any one president or any one thing (other than simple supply & demand) could be responsible for these kind of gas prices.  Now some just blame Bush for everything but particularly gas prices.  As I've stated before, I voted against him 2ice.  I'm just wondering what kind of reasoning you can use that he is responsible other than "his Daddy is an oil man" or something bogus like that?  You must have found some proof - legitimate articles or something other than the hatred of the left-wing & George Soros...
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freak
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« Reply #37 on: May 27, 2008, 02:15:16 PM »

There is no proof available because of the constant barrage of lies and secrecy that has hidden the actions of this administration from the public. It's this policy that makes everyone blame Bush and his cronies for gas prices. If he'd come out and make public his reasoning for the things he does (like continue a war 75% of Americans are against) with the slightest bit of honesty people would trust him and be more apt to back his policies. How can an elected official blindly push policies that are so obviously against the wishes of the people?

The idea that government decisions are for the special few is gone in the information age. We want to know why he lied to get us into a war that is ruining our economy and his cronies are reaping billions for work they didn't even have to bid. Policies like these are tearing this country apart. The record profits for oil companies make normal folks angry when they can't drive to work anymore because they can't afford it due to the dollar being worth about as much as a cigarette butt.

That is why we blame Bush for gas prices. His administration sets the policies that are widening the gap between the have's and the have not's. Since 99% are in the latter, it effects most of us.
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edwarren
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« Reply #38 on: May 27, 2008, 02:21:46 PM »


other than the hatred of the left-wing & George Soros...

We'll ignore the comment about George Soros as you earlier said "no name calling."

Ahahaha. Its too bad for you, he is everything you hate.

------------

His administratons energy policy was drawn up in secret. Dick Cheney won't provide details to Congress or the People, claiming executive priviledge.

-------------

Nevertheless, if someone you approve of (ahahahahaah) responded, well then, the required level of proof would need to be established.

How would you put it?


« Last Edit: May 27, 2008, 02:34:46 PM by edwarren » Report to moderator   Logged
samstar
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« Reply #39 on: May 27, 2008, 02:28:17 PM »

Freak, I know you are busy with your classes and horses, but take the time to look up what is happening in Iraq.  The Al Sadr militia that you said two weeks ago was whipping the Iraqi's has lost Sadr city.  This war is going to be won regardless of the bad wishes of the democrats.

When you talk of secret policies, it is just like the comments people are making about top trainers juicing their horses.  I would like to see proof of the conspiracy,  With all of the enemies Bush has, I can't see him having any secrets.
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edwarren
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« Reply #40 on: May 27, 2008, 02:39:16 PM »

Yeah well you're wrong. He refuses to testify therefore, obviously you're not the only one asking...


What level of proof?





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« Reply #41 on: May 27, 2008, 02:51:43 PM »

Yep, everything is sure coming up roses in Iraq. Let me know when you think we've "WON."  Or better yet, define victory.
Iraq before --- No threat to U.S.
Iraq after --- 4000+ dead U.S. troops, hundreds of thousands of dead and displaced Iraqis, our country added to the list of nations that use torture, billions of dollars squandered.
V-I-C-T-O-R-Y.
The trainers who may or may not be juicing horses are accountable only to their owners and the racing commission. The president of the United States is supposed to be accountable to the American people. The current administration has devoted itself to lies, secrecy and deception. It has been a disgrace to the republic. Bush should be in jail.
 beer                              
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freak
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« Reply #42 on: May 27, 2008, 02:56:23 PM »

I'm actually off this week. Rotations start next week.

I would never wish bad things for our military. I hope they kick ass and take names just like they've always done. That is their job. I have even talked my wife into allowing me to investigate the possibility of being in the guard since she is no longer pregnant. I've been told the deployment for PAs is going to be cut to six months instead of a year, and she thinks she could live with that. I have contacted a recruiter and she is looking into possible billets in my area including a flight duty billet with a blackhawk unit about 40 miles away.
I only wish we'd make a plan to stop spending our money over there and start putting it back into our economy here so our dollar can compete in the global marketplace and we can buy things like gas for a reasonable price. That war will not be "won" ever. It's not WWII, it's a war against insurgents. They'll move and attack and move and attack using suicide bombers and other means to fight what they see as oppression of their values. I don't agree with their values, but they do so they want to keep them.

Has Bush ever said why he lied to get us into a war with Iraq? No. He has used the faulty intelligence excuse that was put together by his administration and a list of ways Saddam lured us in. The administration created the link, and that has been proven, but he still refuses to admit guilt. He's a liar, and he's in a position to create great loss from his lies. I love our troops, but to die for his pride is not a good reason. It is not to be held against our soldiers in any way, shape or form. It's all on this administration.
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« Reply #43 on: May 27, 2008, 03:24:30 PM »

We'll ignore the comment about George Soros as you earlier said "no name calling."
Ahahaha. Its too bad for you, he is everything you hate.
------------
His administratons energy policy was drawn up in secret. Dick Cheney won't provide details to Congress or the People, claiming executive priviledge.
-------------
Nevertheless, if someone you approve of (ahahahahaah) responded, well then, the required level of proof would need to be established.

How would you put it?

What did I call George Soros - left wing?  C'mon, that just qualifies as fact not name-calling.  I don't think Rush has a problem being labeled a right-winger.

I really don't get your "ahahahahah".  I was looking for a legitimate response to a fair question but you haven't offered a legit response other than "administratons energy policy was drawn up in secret".  And you obviously don't know the secret!

There is no proof available because of the constant barrage of lies and secrecy that has hidden the actions of this administration from the public. It's this policy that makes everyone blame Bush and his cronies for gas prices. If he'd come out and make public his reasoning for the things he does (like continue a war 75% of Americans are against) with the slightest bit of honesty people would trust him and be more apt to back his policies. How can an elected official blindly push policies that are so obviously against the wishes of the people?

Freak, you're straying from the thread - it's about gas prices.  From what you wrote, am I to understand that you believe that gas is as high as it is just because of the $?  Do you really think the fall of the $ is entirely the fault of the Iraq war?  If we weren't in Iraq, wouldn't we still have a major front somewhere in the middle-east to fight the war on terrorism?  The $ has fallen roughly 20% since Jan. 2006, the last time we threatened the $2.00 / gallon level.  Gas prices are up 100% so clearly, it cannot be just the fault of the $.  It's got to be a supply / demand thing.  This can't be ignored - we all know China & India are using HUGE amounts of oil compared to 10 years ago.

BTW, it's about 2/3 that are against the war, which is completely opposite from 2003 when we first went in.  Every intelligence program had the same info.  It was a one-sided vote in Congress.  Also, one other thing - most people feel that Bush only uses the "slightest bit of honesty".
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« Reply #44 on: May 27, 2008, 03:51:14 PM »

Yep, everything is sure coming up roses in Iraq. Let me know when you think we've "WON."  Or better yet, define victory.
Iraq before --- No threat to U.S.
Iraq after --- 4000+ dead U.S. troops, hundreds of thousands of dead and displaced Iraqis, our country added to the list of nations that use torture, billions of dollars squandered.
V-I-C-T-O-R-Y.
The trainers who may or may not be juicing horses are accountable only to their owners and the racing commission. The president of the United States is supposed to be accountable to the American people. The current administration has devoted itself to lies, secrecy and deception. It has been a disgrace to the republic. Bush should be in jail.

GOOD QUOTE.... thumbs up
 beer                              
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edwarren
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« Reply #45 on: May 27, 2008, 04:16:51 PM »

What did I call George Soros - left wing?  C'mon, that just qualifies as fact not name-calling.  I don't think Rush has a problem being labeled a right-winger.

You're straying from the point. You called him a "hater." Of course, that's your opinion. No name calling.

I really don't get your "ahahahahah".  I was looking for a legitimate response to a fair question but you haven't offered a legit response other than "administratons energy policy was drawn up in secret".  And you obviously don't know the secret!

Ahhhhha wrong.

You avoid the question. You're an avoider. That's contemptible.
Well, I'll ask again.

What level of proof should we agree to?



Freak, you're straying from the thread - it's about gas prices.  From what you wrote, am I to understand that you believe that gas is as high as it is just because of the $? 


Hahaha that's a big part of it.  Nice try.  Oil is priced in ... dollars. At least on this world.

How much does a barrel go for ... on the one you're from?




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Dolfan
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« Reply #46 on: May 27, 2008, 04:44:03 PM »

You must have found some proof - legitimate articles or something other than the hatred of the left-wing & George Soros...

You're straying from the point. You called him a "hater." Of course, that's your opinion. No name calling.

I didn't call anyone names, George Soros included.  He shares your hatred of Bush.  That's not a name - "hate", I'm pretty sure is a verb!

Ahhhhha wrong.

You avoid the question. You're an avoider. That's contemptible.
Well, I'll ask again.

What level of proof should we agree to?

Hahaha that's a big part of it.  Nice try.  Oil is priced in ... dollars. At least on this world.

How much does a barrel go for ... on the one you're from?

I'm an avoider?  I asked you to prove that Bush is the one person responsible for oil prices.  Why are YOU avoiding?  I'd settle for any proof from a legitimate source - a newspaper would be fine.  Are you lacking a legitimate source, perhaps?  My point is one person, even the President, does not control oil prices.

As I said the $ is down 20% since Jan. 2006 but the price per gallon is up 100% - in dollars.  What don't you understand about this comparison.  Logically, if it's only $ related, the price of gas should be up 25%.  (If you can't figure out why the dollar is down 20% but prices should be up 25%, try a Basic Economics course.)

Please, either say something logical or just go away.  Hahahahaha does not qualify as logical.
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« Reply #47 on: May 27, 2008, 04:49:27 PM »

I didn't call anyone names, George Soros included.  He shares your hatred of Bush.  That's not a name - "hate", I'm pretty sure is a verb!

I'm an avoider?  I asked you to prove that Bush is the one person responsible for oil prices.  Why are YOU avoiding?  I'd settle for any proof from a legitimate source - a newspaper would be fine.  Are you lacking a legitimate source, perhaps?  My point is one person, even the President, does not control oil prices.

As I said the $ is down 20% since Jan. 2006 but the price per gallon is up 100% - in dollars.  What don't you understand about this comparison.  Logically, if it's only $ related, the price of gas should be up 25%.  (If you can't figure out why the dollar is down 20% but prices should be up 25%, try a Basic Economics course.)

Please, either say something logical or just go away.  Hahahahaha does not qualify as logical.


Dolfan:

No facts, just hyperbole from these individuals.



Kenneth J. Chadwick
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talking head
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« Reply #48 on: May 27, 2008, 05:45:41 PM »

How about the sub-prime mess?
That's primarily the problem.
The Fed's action to stimulate the economy.

Kenneth J. Chadwick
The subprime mess! Like I stated the dollar is worthless!
Read the title of the thread! You should know you started it! For MOST AMERICANS we are more concerned with GAS PRICES! Us Horsemen have to buy gas to ship our horses in order to race them.
Remember This is still a harness forum!
By the way Bush appointed the Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board! So are you saying that you are blaming the President for the sub prime mess?
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« Reply #49 on: May 27, 2008, 05:49:57 PM »

It's like talking to a wall.  You guys are  so full of hate that it is blinding you to reality.  Meanwhile congress is picking your pocket more blatantly then  ever before in the history of this country and all you can see is your hatred of George Bush.  You live in la la land and will wake up someday in a socialist dictatorship and wonder where you are going to get your next meal.
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