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Author Topic: Thoroughbreds vs. Harness  (Read 2318 times)
Humpy
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« on: April 22, 2008, 04:29:15 PM »

Why is it that the Thoroughbreds have more attendance at the track, the handle is bigger, and the fans support it more. Is it because of the Kentucky Derby and the other Triple Crown races getting tons of publicity or what? Just wondering.
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macdaddi
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« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2008, 04:33:49 PM »

because the average joe likes long shots and most people are to dumb to figure out you win at the standardbreds by betting selective chalk


ie  war pass 1-20 down the tubes
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Goodfella
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« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2008, 04:39:34 PM »

Give it a rest f(uck nuts no one cares about your 1-9's. thumbs down censor BSmeter
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Dolfan
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« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2008, 04:55:04 PM »

because the average joe likes long shots and most people are to dumb to figure out you win at the standardbreds by betting selective chalk


ie  war pass 1-20 down the tubes

In my life & I've been going to harness tracks for 30+ years, I have only known one person who has shown a profit for an entire year.  He only bets longshots - at least 9-1 - and only win bets.  I reached a point several years ago where I could claim to break even consistently - year after year but since I only go once a week, I tend to bet more races as I have a 6-1 threshold.  Again, I only bet to win.

I have learned that there is no way that you're making a profit at the end of the year with 1-9 to show or 3-5 to win.  The improbable / impossible happens too often in racing, mathematically speaking.  You're considered a bridge-jumper for a reason.
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We can produce more wealth, but we cannot produce more time.  When we give someone our time, we actually give a portion of our life that we will never get back.
Mel from Moline
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« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2008, 05:01:32 PM »

I think it's all perception. Old timers and their "well, I really didn't want to win today" mentality and like any word of mouth thing it became a part of the fabric of harness racing. T'breds of course have just as much cheating but no drivers leaning back in a bike making a novice think they're "holding the horse back". It's such a shame really, because the novice fan not realizing when a jock is standing up on a horse. Simple truth, when they make movies about harness horses and make the people seem as we all are, maybe interest will turn up.
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Horses make the humans...not the other way around.
Dolfan
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« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2008, 05:03:09 PM »

I never really got it myself.  I have always assumed that because they line up in harness racing & 1/2 the field gets "boxed-in" it turns off too many people.  It always appears that everyone in a thoroughbred race has a "chance" - not really, of course but look at the majority of gamblers - not high up on the intelligence scale.  Also the close up view of the driver laying back, holding his horse gives the impression of a rigged event.  Stiffing from an outside post turns people off as well.  You don't consider that in t-breds.

They don't ever get the fact that the thoroughbreds are much dirtier than harness - drug wise.

Yes, Mo - I was writing & posting this same time as you were!  We must be right thumbs up
« Last Edit: April 22, 2008, 05:05:08 PM by Dolfan » Report to moderator   Logged

We can produce more wealth, but we cannot produce more time.  When we give someone our time, we actually give a portion of our life that we will never get back.
njhorseman
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« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2008, 06:01:12 PM »

In my life & I've been going to harness tracks for 30+ years, I have only known one person who has shown a profit for an entire year. 

Come on, are you serious?
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macdaddi
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« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2008, 07:19:05 PM »

18 in a row and counting    doh doh doh doh doh doh doh doh
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macdaddi
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« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2008, 07:20:33 PM »

i won at a rate of 94% last year do the math
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Goodfella
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« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2008, 07:22:06 PM »

You need to
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macdaddi
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« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2008, 07:30:54 PM »

AND I MAKE ALOT OF MONEY dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar
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INTERESTED OBSERVER
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« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2008, 07:38:20 PM »

AND I MAKE ALOT OF MONEY dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar

Time to celebrate "your day" macgoofy...  Grin

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Goodfella
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« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2008, 07:39:49 PM »

It's all what you consider a lot.The definition is different for everybody.It sounds like your standard of what is a decent amount of money is somewhat low.Have a blast with your 1-9's it sounds boring to me.
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Goodfella
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« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2008, 07:41:47 PM »

Leave it to Observer the ole' dunce cap,CLASSIC thumbs up beer
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macdaddi
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« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2008, 08:02:18 PM »

WHEN ARE YOU2 DOLLAR BETTERS GOING TO GET IT  I THOUGHT YOU HAD ME ON IGNORE   HHHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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Goodfella
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« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2008, 08:05:58 PM »

I need something to laugh at during the commercials while I watch reruns of Taxi/Cheers. Grin Cheesy You amuse me from time to time and I don't want to miss any posts by Observer. binoculars
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macdaddi
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« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2008, 08:14:36 PM »

THE 2 DOLLAR GUY  HAHAHHHAH WHAT IS THE HIGHEST BET YOU EVER MADE ,SERIOUSLY

PLEASE TELLTHE CROWD
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Goodfella
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« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2008, 08:19:59 PM »

Kid why should this turn into a pissing match you're the self proclaimed king of nit picking show bettors,congratulations.My biggest bets,winners and losers in sports and horses would give you a heart attack.You win good luck with your 1-9ers you'll need it.

                                                                   Goodfella horse shoe
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looking in
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« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2008, 09:20:36 PM »

In my life & I've been going to harness tracks for 30+ years, I have only known one person who has shown a profit for an entire year.  He only bets longshots - at least 9-1 - and only win bets.  I reached a point several years ago where I could claim to break even consistently - year after year but since I only go once a week, I tend to bet more races as I have a 6-1 threshold.  Again, I only bet to win.

I have learned that there is no way that you're making a profit at the end of the year with 1-9 to show or 3-5 to win.  The improbable / impossible happens too often in racing, mathematically speaking.  You're considered a bridge-jumper for a reason.
The best betting man I ever meet was a Gentleman from Maine named Ora Stratton. He had worked for Dave Legum.Billy Faucher,Harold Story and some real "HOSS" trainers.
I spent many a night with him at Pompano Park in the late 60's.
Ora would see a horse he wanted to claim. He would tend to business, stay sober, pick up winners in the kitchen and blacksmith shop ,and soon would have cashed enough tickets to have enough money to claim the horse.
He would then say "OH HELL I don't want that horse", and it would be wine ,women, and song till he was broke again.
Then the cycle would start all over again.
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I am just an old "Hoss" trainer, that has been raced hard and put away wet. 
As my Friend from Maine(Ora Stratton) says "There are horse trainers, and then there are real "Hoss" trainers.
Dolfan
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« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2008, 10:35:57 PM »

Come on, are you serious?

Absolutely.  Now I'm talking bonafide winners, not someone who cashes a pick 4 for 30k & ends the year with a profit, then has 3 straight losing years.  Most honest people will tell you that the times that they committed to keeping track of their wins/losses stopped by May because they didn't want their wives to see the real results!

The rest of the "winners" turned out to be  BSmeter losers.  I kept track for 3 years in-a-row.  The results were Jerry Seinfeld-like break evens - up or down $100-$200 at year's end.  Like kissing your sister.  Since I know I'll never get rich or broken, it's no stress when I miss a 20-1, which I do about every 6 weeks.

The consistent winner that I referred to NEVER bets anything below 9-1.  He's very mathematical & scientific & has found that 9-1 is his number where he pretty much has to win.  And he's proven that to me.

Do you know that many "winners"?

We all know now that macdaddi must be a loser because he already stated that he cashes 94% of the time.  But at 2.10 you need 95% just to break even.  doh
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We can produce more wealth, but we cannot produce more time.  When we give someone our time, we actually give a portion of our life that we will never get back.
njhorseman
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« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2008, 07:01:53 AM »

Dolfan:

I know any number of professional or semi-professional horseplayers who live comfortable lives and who would not be able to do so without their racetrack winnings. Yes, they win year after year.

As for me...9-1 is too short a price for my taste. I rarely bet win. I wait and look for the right exotic bet situations. In particular, I will look to bet into pick 4, pick 6 and superfecta carryover pools, where other people have been kind enough to deposit their cash for sharp bettors to take, but I do bet regular exactas, tris, supers, pick 4s, etc. Don't thumb your nose at people who cash big exotic bet tickets. You don't have to cash $30K tickets. The $500 to $1000 tickets are plentiful.
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Dolfan
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« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2008, 12:01:55 PM »

Dolfan:

I know any number of professional or semi-professional horseplayers who live comfortable lives and who would not be able to do so without their racetrack winnings. Yes, they win year after year.

As for me...9-1 is too short a price for my taste. I rarely bet win. I wait and look for the right exotic bet situations. In particular, I will look to bet into pick 4, pick 6 and superfecta carryover pools, where other people have been kind enough to deposit their cash for sharp bettors to take, but I do bet regular exactas, tris, supers, pick 4s, etc. Don't thumb your nose at people who cash big exotic bet tickets. You don't have to cash $30K tickets. The $500 to $1000 tickets are plentiful.


Paul, I don't thumb my nose at anyone.  For this post however, I was not referring to someone who cashes one big ticket as a "consistent winner", as I'm sure you'll agree.  Someone who hits one lucky bet (even if you handicapped it perfectly - to get the big payoff, you still have to fall into the lucky category) that puts him ahead for the last 3 years - that's great.  But not what I would consider a consistent winner.  The consistent winners that I refer to can easily afford to miss one here or there because they are consistent & don't depend on the one biggie that saves their year.  The professionals that you refer to do not depend on the one big one for their living.  Just for the record, I personally, don't know these "professionals", although I know they are out there.

I only bet win because I don't like the aggravation involved with having a $30 horse win & not cashing.  It just makes me too grumpy.
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We can produce more wealth, but we cannot produce more time.  When we give someone our time, we actually give a portion of our life that we will never get back.
Lockjaw
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« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2008, 04:56:46 PM »

Quote
I only bet win because I don't like the aggravation involved with having a $30 horse win & not cashing.  It just makes me too grumpy.

When I cash a trifecta with a thirty-dollar horse on top, the first thing out of the mouth of my bet-only-to-win friends is "...and you had nothing to win on X!  What's wrong with you?" ...followed by a head shake.
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Dolfan
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« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2008, 06:04:19 PM »

When I cash a trifecta with a thirty-dollar horse on top, the first thing out of the mouth of my bet-only-to-win friends is "...and you had nothing to win on X!  What's wrong with you?" ...followed by a head shake.

If they say that when you cash, what do they say when you don't cash & your $30 horse wins? Huh
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We can produce more wealth, but we cannot produce more time.  When we give someone our time, we actually give a portion of our life that we will never get back.
Lockjaw
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« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2008, 06:47:47 PM »

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If they say that when you cash, what do they say when you don't cash & your $30 horse wins? Huh

As a gimmick player, I'm gonna get heat both ways. But, when their win bet finishes second, I never say, "Why didn't you bet'm to place?" ...no matter how good the place price.
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