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Author Topic: World's Largest Derby Party???  (Read 5930 times)
Moon
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« on: April 10, 2008, 11:00:56 AM »

Saturday, May 3, 2008: KENTUCKY DERBY -- "WORLD'S LARGEST DERBY PARTY"
Arlington Park is the host for the "World's Largest Derby Party." In addition to an exciting live racing program, Arlington Park will simulcast the Grade I Kentucky Derby presented by Yum! Brands from Churchill Downs. Gates open at 9:30 a.m. with action getting underway with a strong undercard of races beginning at 10 a.m., a special post time for Derby Day. The first live Arlington Park race breaks from the gate at 1:00 p.m.

Other great Derby Day activities include:
* Wagering and live broadcast of the Kentucky Derby with wagering strategies seminar hosted by Daily Herald racing analyst Joe Kristufek.
* Live music on the Miller Lite Band Stage by the Kimi Hayes Band.
* The first 4,000 paid admissions will receive an official Kentucky Derby Glass.
* Traditional Kentucky Derby themed beverages such as the Mint Julep.
* Entertainment, fun and games for the entire family in the Park area.
* Win a trip for two in the Continental US as part of American Airlines Summer Sweepstakes.
* Kentucky themed roaming musical performances.


How is this different from any other Saturday, other than the Derby Glass giveaway?
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2008, 11:18:47 AM »

How is this different from any other Saturday, other than the Derby Glass giveaway?

By the number of attendees who will hear the start of the Derby on the TV's, look out at the AP track, and say "Where's the horses?"
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Thomas Graham
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« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2008, 01:01:47 PM »

Seems like an interesting idea since there will be more people at Arlington than anywhere else (other than Churchill) watching the Derby.  My own Derby Party will be six - me, my wife, my son and daughter-in-law and their two kids.  So Arlngton beats us - we'll be at Arlington that Sunday for the pony rides for the little ones and for me and my son to bet a few races.
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2008, 01:36:52 PM »

Seems like an interesting idea since there will be more people at Arlington than anywhere else (other than Churchill) watching the Derby.  My own Derby Party will be six - me, my wife, my son and daughter-in-law and their two kids.  So Arlngton beats us - we'll be at Arlington that Sunday for the pony rides for the little ones and for me and my son to bet a few races.


I am sure there will be more people at Keeneland for the simulcasting than at AP live.If AP wasn't a CDI track they would not be using that advertising.

 thumbs down thumbs down thumbs down thumbs down thumbs down thumbs down
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2008, 10:15:16 PM »

Seems like an interesting idea since there will be more people at Arlington than anywhere else (other than Churchill) watching the Derby.

How will they know who is there for the Derby Party, and who for Arlington's live card? I've heard that latter is muy, muy popular on its own merits. Will people have to declare on the way in, and wear a little pin or something, so the World Record people can count properly?

And, what happens if there are more people at somewhere like Santa Anita or Hollywood on KY Derby day than at AP? Will they be able to declare their live attendance as the world's largest Derby party? 
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2008, 11:14:18 PM »

How will they know who is there for the Derby Party, and who for Arlington's live card? I've heard that latter is muy, muy popular on its own merits. Will people have to declare on the way in, and wear a little pin or something, so the World Record people can count properly?

And, what happens if there are more people at somewhere like Santa Anita or Hollywood on KY Derby day than at AP? Will they be able to declare their live attendance as the world's largest Derby party? 

Only  a CDI property can LEGALLY claim to have a KY DERBY PARTY !

 nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2008, 12:36:06 AM »

Quote from: NIATROSS link=topic=2056 .msg197026#msg197026 date=1208060058
Only  a CDI property can LEGALLY claim to have a KY DERBY PARTY !

Which leads us to the most obvious question of all:

Won't the party being held at Churchill Downs on the first Saturday in May, with ~140,000 or more attendees, be the World's Biggest Kentucky Derby Party?

What kind of fraudulent marketing crap is AP trying to pull here?

(Besides, if a crowd that is even 1/4 of that size shows up at AP, you can forget about things like betting, eating, drinking, and urinating (unless you are wearing Depends) -- they can't handle a decent-sized crowd. At least they never have before.)
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APCD Dan
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« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2008, 12:57:34 PM »


Which leads us to the most obvious question of all:

Won't the party being held at Churchill Downs on the first Saturday in May, with ~140,000 or more attendees, be the World's Biggest Kentucky Derby Party?

What kind of fraudulent marketing crap is AP trying to pull here?

(Besides, if a crowd that is even 1/4 of that size shows up at AP, you can forget about things like betting, eating, drinking, and urinating (unless you are wearing Depends) -- they can't handle a decent-sized crowd. At least they never have before.)

Uh, we have our whole grandstand open I believe.  Plus, it is nice to have worries like that.
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Thomas Graham
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« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2008, 04:49:40 PM »

Keeneland intertrack will not have more on Derby Day than Arlington and the combined Derby/opoening weekend should make AP have the second largest on-track crowd that Saturday (I say nothing of the betting, which will not be close to a #2 behind CD) since they often have had the largest crowd anywhere on Father's Day/Mother's Day.
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Moon
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« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2008, 05:12:49 PM »

The point was, they aren't doing anything really special for Derby Day! Sheesh.

It's pretty much the same thing they do EVERY weekend.
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fnlfurlong
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« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2008, 05:15:02 PM »

Wasn't it CDI who refused to report attendance numbers last year as they claimed it wasn't an indicator of performance? Funny that they should proceed with a promotion that's performance is going to be measured by attendance.

That said, they may have a claim as "World's largest Derby party". If you were going to try and host the "World's Largest Superbowl Party" you wouldn't include the actual Superbowl in the mix. Therefore, you wouldn't count the actaul Kentucky Derby crowd as being at the Derby Party, but rather the Derby itself.

Assuming they get 20,000 - 25,000, they may have a legitimate claim. Not too many tracks can pull those types of crowds.

You can hardly say they've never been able to handle a decent crowd. There were days when all racetracks were packed. It is just our expectations have changed. Anyhow, atleast they know what a decent crowd is. Hawthorne's biggest day of the year is a AP midweek crowd.
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Thomas Graham
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« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2008, 08:05:40 PM »

We're making an awfully big fuss over the racing equivalent of hanging a sign in the window of a diner caliming "World's greatest coffee" - it's a marketing slogan like "new and improved"
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2008, 08:09:13 PM »

Uh, we have our whole grandstand open I believe.  Plus, it is nice to have worries like that.

Hey Dan -- while you're in late-season form in your Hawthorne bashing, it's only spring training for some of us.  Wink
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2008, 08:37:13 PM »

Anyhow, atleast they know what a decent crowd is. Hawthorne's biggest day of the year is a AP midweek crowd.

Hey furlong, who wrote this:

"You make everything into match between the two."

Huh

I don't know that I can agree with you. I've seen plenty of those AP midweek crowds. And hey - where's your proof of that statement, since they don't post daily attendance numbers anymore? Just making things up and calling them fact again, are we?
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2008, 08:44:04 PM »

Keeneland intertrack will not have more on Derby Day than Arlington and the combined Derby/opoening weekend should make AP have the second largest on-track crowd that Saturday (I say nothing of the betting, which will not be close to a #2 behind CD) since they often have had the largest crowd anywhere on Father's Day/Mother's Day.

Keeneland has drawn 20-25K on Derby Day in the past and will outdraw AP again.Hollywood Park will also outdraw AP on Derby Day.

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fnlfurlong
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« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2008, 09:28:57 PM »

Hey furlong, who wrote this:

"You make everything into match between the two."

I was responding to Horse Voice's jab...

I don't know that I can agree with you. I've seen plenty of those AP midweek crowds. And hey - where's your proof of that statement, since they don't post daily attendance numbers anymore? Just making things up and calling them fact again, are we?

Based on 2006 (last year that was reported) average attendance was almost 7,000 per day. Even in that horrendous year, their average attendance would suggest they were probably drawing 3-4,000 midweek. Can't find Illinois Derby attendance numbers anywhere, but they had a whopping "almost 2,000" on hand for their opening day.

http://www.churchilldownsincorporated.com/our_company/company_news/2005_news_releases/company_news_09132006.html

http://www.hawthorneracecourse.com/hawthorne_news/index.php?article=anopeningdaysuccessathawthorne
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2008, 09:36:53 PM »

Based on 2006 (last year that was reported) average attendance was almost 7,000 per day. Even in that horrendous year, their average attendance would suggest they were probably drawing 3-4,000 midweek.

Not from what I was seeing on the TV monitors then. It probably breaks down more like this:
 
Sat & Sunday: ~ 12 - 13,000 each day
Friday: ~7,000 - 8,000 (2,000 bettors and 6,000 there for after work drinks)
Wed & Thurs: 1,000 to 1,500 either day...and that's generous
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fnlfurlong
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« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2008, 09:42:00 PM »

Keeneland has drawn 20-25K on Derby Day in the past and will outdraw AP again.Hollywood Park will also outdraw AP on Derby Day.



http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2004/May/01/Keeneland-reports-record-wagering-on-Derby.aspx


http://www.hollywoodpark.com/bet_the_races/racing_news/racing_news_07152007c.html

Seems like Keeneland may be the standard to beat. Couldn't find specific Hollywood Park numbers, but based on averages it seems like AP may have a shot at beating both of these.
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fnlfurlong
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« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2008, 09:44:23 PM »

Not from what I was seeing on the TV monitors then. It probably breaks down more like this:
 
Sat & Sunday: ~ 12 - 13,000 each day
Friday: ~7,000 - 8,000 (2,000 bettors and 6,000 there for after work drinks)
Wed & Thurs: 1,000 to 1,500 either day...and that's generous

So your unbiased eyes are the basis of fact these days. There is about as much credibility in this as you claim Debbie at Hodgkins has.
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2008, 09:48:41 PM »

So your unbiased eyes are the basis of fact these days. There is about as much credibility in this as you claim Debbie at Hodgkins has.

So, when you "suggest" numbers based on averages (in other words, completely contrived numbers) -- even though you didn't see anything -- it trumps what I saw every day?

And I didn't say "fact", I said "probably". Get over yourself.
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big wally
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« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2008, 09:50:05 PM »

Seems like Keeneland may be the standard to beat. Couldn't find specific Hollywood Park numbers, but based on averages it seems like AP may have a shot at beating both of these.

Keeneland will be tough to beat:
Last year Hollywood 14,265, Belmont 14,858, Lone Star 15,961
 
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fnlfurlong
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« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2008, 09:51:18 PM »

I was responding to Horse Voice's jab...

Based on 2006 (last year that was reported) average attendance was almost 7,000 per day. Even in that horrendous year, their average attendance would suggest they were probably drawing 3-4,000 midweek. Can't find Illinois Derby attendance numbers anywhere, but they had a whopping "almost 2,000" on hand for their opening day.

http://www.churchilldownsincorporated.com/our_company/company_news/2005_news_releases/company_news_09132006.html

http://www.hawthorneracecourse.com/hawthorne_news/index.php?article=anopeningdaysuccessathawthorne

Looked more closely at the numbers again and saw that AP's average daily on-track handle in 2006 was $486,484 (we all know it was most certainly up in 2007). On-track handle and attendance are correlated with one another to some extent. Well Hawthorne handled $407,000 on Illinois Derby Day on-track. Facts are facts....
http://www.drf.com/results/05/rHAW05.html?rn=076077
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fnlfurlong
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« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2008, 09:59:31 PM »

So, when you "suggest" numbers based on averages (in other words, completely contrived numbers) -- even though you didn't see anything -- it trumps what I saw every day?

And I didn't say "fact", I said "probably". Get over yourself.

Maybe Big Wally can help here. He seems to be the data guru... And I didn't say fact either, but I could at least quote a source for an average. From what I see on TV, Hawthorne must average 30 people (the jockeys and racing officials) during the week. Their field size has the biggest impact on their attendance!!!! What you see on TV is not a reliable estimate for who's in attendance.
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2008, 10:00:55 PM »

Looked more closely at the numbers again and saw that AP's average daily on-track handle in 2006 was $486,484 (we all know it was most certainly up in 2007). On-track handle and attendance are correlated with one another to some extent. Well Hawthorne handled $407,000 on Illinois Derby Day on-track. Facts are facts....

...and yours are manufactured.

"On-track handle and attendance are correlated with one another to some extent"? Got any "facts" to back up that ridiculous statement, chief? Or did you hear it from a teller in Hodgkins who read a mystical report that none of us can see?

You call out others for not supplying hard facts, and then just make up numbers to fit your arguments. Give it a rest -- you're not impressing anybody here.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2008, 10:01:29 PM »

Based on 2006 (last year that was reported) average attendance was almost 7,000 per day. Even in that horrendous year, their average attendance would suggest they were probably drawing 3-4,000 midweek. Can't find Illinois Derby attendance numbers anywhere, but they had a whopping "almost 2,000" on hand for their opening day.

Obviously, there's no such thing as a perfectly average midweek crowd. Some are very tiny. Some are quite nice. Arlington's "average" numbers get skewed by their really big days. They get dragged down by their little days. That's what makes averages.   

Your original statement was probably technically correct: "A" or several or even many AP midweek crowd may have been the same as Hawthorne/s best day. Some of the late summer ones are pretty big. Not every AP midweek crowd was as good as Hawthorne's best day, I would guess. I have been to some Weds and Thurs that just stunk. You could have driven a battleship though and not run over anyone. I'm sure I've posted some of those pictures.

Then, back to the original statement, HV is correct in that Arlington's capacity to handle a really big crowd is poor. Anything over 20,000 and it is quite uncomfortable and processes start breaking down. The 25,000 and up ones, thankfully few, you really don't want to be there.

I was quite surprised at Oaklawn this weekend. 56,000 they called it, and it was busy but not unpleasant. I've been at Ark Derbies that were much more unpleasant. I think they said there was over 65,000 for Afleet Alex. That one was a madhouse.
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