Chicago Barn to Wire BRIS
Home | News | Bloggers | Forums | Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Contact Us | Search


October 20, 2014, 04:48:23 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you don't remember your password, email me.

New  registration procedures -- Some ISPs have been bouncing the verification emails.  Please email me to be activated or if you have any problems.  Click Contact Us above.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: DRF handicapping championship  (Read 5704 times)
CLOCKERTERRY
Guest

« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2006, 11:14:08 PM »

Actually Terry, the price on the #1 Wolfson horse dropped from 70/1 down to 45/1 in the waning minutes, so that theory is flawed.  FYI.  TC

How? They would have seen it drop from 70-1 to 45-1 the same as everyone else. They should have fixed it - if they were any good at all.
Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
Guest

« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2006, 11:17:06 PM »

P.S.

I like how they set the whole thing up, getting Live Oak to transfer the horse from Mott to Wolfson in early December, getting ready for the Sunshine Millions fix in late January. For that I'll give them credit.
Report to moderator   Logged
TC
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4183




Ignore
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2006, 11:21:53 PM »

P.S.

I like how they set the whole thing up, getting Live Oak to transfer the horse from Mott to Wolfson in early December, getting ready for the Sunshine Millions fix in late January. For that I'll give them credit.
Yep, they fooled horseplayers from coast to coast - except the ever vigilant John Frank.  If a race smells fishy, leave it to someone who has inhaled plenty of turpentine fumes in his life to sniff it out.   trotter  TC
Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
Guest

« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2006, 11:25:19 PM »

Yep, they fooled horseplayers from coast to coast - except the ever vigilant John Frank.  If a race smells fishy, leave it to someone who has inhaled plenty of turpentine fumes in his life to sniff it out.   trotter  TC

One other thought, such as it is: Isn't there a cap on winning price in that NTRA contest? Or am I thinking of another contest?
Report to moderator   Logged
John Frank
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1436




Ignore
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2006, 11:37:23 PM »

Put this in both your F####### Asses. How many times has Bail Shit rode ponies. His last mount the horse kicks him in the ass in the paddock. He claims he was sore. Why did he not give up mount and surrender to another waiting jock. That rotten piece of shit insisted he will ride. Then he uses ,got kicked in ass for excuse.
Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
Guest

« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2006, 11:45:53 PM »

Put this in both your F####### Asses. How many times has Bail Shit rode ponies. His last mount the horse kicks him in the ass in the paddock. He claims he was sore. Why did he not give up mount and surrender to another waiting jock. That rotten piece of shit insisted he will ride. Then he uses ,got kicked in ass for excuse.

The plot thickens. Jerrry Bailey got himself intentionally kicked in the ass by a horse in the paddock, so as to have a ready excuse for his part in the Great Wolfson Fix. It would have nothing to do with that paddock being so tiny and cramped they won't even let connections in. I think Jerry should have loudly announced to all within earshot (including TV microphones), "I GUARANTEE A WIN!" That would have made his price even lower, and the Wolfson horse higher, so the fix might have accomplished something.
Report to moderator   Logged
John Frank
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1436




Ignore
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2006, 12:29:15 AM »

Terry: YOU NEVEEEEEEEEEEER Get it. Your part of ownership. You think everything is on the up an up. Why don't you go and have a meeting with Kasperski,particurlaly at a tournament site. Then he can right off cocktails for the both of you and also flights and tournament costs. Kiss his ASS TERRY. You both belong togeather. I do not know how Sun Tan Tommy puts up with you.
Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
Guest

« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2006, 12:36:27 AM »

Terry: YOU NEVEEEEEEEEEEER Get it. Your part of ownership. You think everything is on the up an up.

No, everything is not on the up and up. There's plenty that's not on the up and up, starting with all the drugs race horses get. However, I know a ridiculously laughable story when I see one, and your crackpot theory about the Wolfsons somehow fixing that last race of Bailey's, a $500,000 Sunshine Millions race, so a family member could score on a handicapping tournament, is one of THE MOST ridiculously laughable stories ever typed on this forum. If anything, Steve Wolfson, Sr., might have had some good inside info that the horse was ready to run big, but that's it.
Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
Guest

« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2006, 12:51:48 AM »

Another thing John Frank: How do you know that Steve Wolfson, Sr., bet that particular horse? I can't find a written record of what the individual players bet, it wasn't a contest mandatory race, and there were still a number of contest races after it. Could you direct us to the source that says Steve Wolfson, Sr., bet that #1 horse? Just so we can all be on the same level set, you understand.
Report to moderator   Logged
John Frank
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1436




Ignore
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2006, 01:03:28 AM »

OK. Since your so smart. He jumps from nowhere to 6th. And if you followed ,which you did not because your trying to win some god damn lease on a car tournament that takes 36 tries and they will most likely *** you on that saying they were only offering a $3,000 discount on purchase,how the hell do you know what's going on.
Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
Guest

« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2006, 01:14:58 AM »

OK. Since your so smart. He jumps from nowhere to 6th. And if you followed ,which you did not because your trying to win some god damn lease on a car tournament that takes 36 tries and they will most likely *** you on that saying they were only offering a $3,000 discount on purchase,how the hell do you know what's going on.

I don't know what went on in that contest, you're right I was at Hawthorne playing my own contest, so that's why I'm asking you where we can read what went on. Not that I doubt your word, but independent verification is part of the scientific process. What am I saying ... a highly educated individual such as you knows that. But there was 2-1/2 hours between that Gulfstream 9th race and the final race of the contest, the 10th from Santa Anita, so lots could have happened. When exactly did Mr. Wolfson, Sr., "jump from nowhere to 6th" (coincidentally his finishing position, which is odd, since the story about how the contest ended says there was a lot of movement due to that 10th race at SA), where was "nowhere" to begin with, and where can we see (independently from your biased opinion) how and when that happened? These are the kind of questions we need to have answered.
Report to moderator   Logged
RunSuckerRun
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 440




Ignore
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2006, 01:32:32 AM »

Y'all,

Most everyone knew Mr. Wolfson was in the contest.  When that horse won, half the house went running for the judges.  I was told it didn't count towards his total because he was forbidden from playing the race.  All owners and trainers were required to identify themselves prior to the contest.  We were not allowed to play any race where we or any members of our family had any ownership or influence on training the horse.

If Steve got any money from the race (which I can't imagine) he would be disqualified.

-RSR
Report to moderator   Logged
John Frank
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1436




Ignore
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2006, 01:41:49 AM »

Was that me that had that rule put into effect.
Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
Guest

« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2006, 01:49:34 AM »

Was that me that had that rule put into effect.

Yes, probably it was you.

The DRF and NTRA officials read John "Knows all! Sees all" Frank making accusations of a Wolfson fix on Sunday, January 29, and leaped into their Time Machine to go back in time to before the contest to put a rule in place to negate any benefit to the Wolfsons of doing what you accused them of doing.

Now I really am going to bed.
Report to moderator   Logged
John Frank
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1436




Ignore
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2006, 01:57:53 AM »

But it still is a wonderful thing at Hawthorne Qualifers. McManus will allow Kasperski to play even though he has 8 horses running in 4 different tournament races. LIFE IS FAIR.
Report to moderator   Logged
jimk
Full Member
***
Posts: 248




Ignore
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2006, 07:40:03 AM »

I don't know if anybody mentioned this earlier but Miesque's Approval was a raceday scratch last weekend. I had bet him and had a scratch to cash. When the form listed reason for scratch it just said "trainer". Don't ask if I had the good wisdom to play him back on Saturday, he was in against a much tougher group on paper. Does this sound like an excuse for not catching a huge payoff because I was cautious when I should have had the b---s to go back and get him again? Martin Wolfson kind of reminds me of the late J R Smith sr. he isn't afraid to step way up with a horse and sometimes gets shocking results. He also doesn't ship around the country too much but when he does,watch out, horses he ships are usually very LIVE.
Report to moderator   Logged
jimk
Full Member
***
Posts: 248




Ignore
« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2006, 07:49:38 AM »

The above post should have read sratched by "stewards" not trainer
Report to moderator   Logged
RunSuckerRun
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 440




Ignore
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2006, 09:18:31 AM »

JF wrote:
Quote
But it still is a wonderful thing at Hawthorne Qualifers. McManus will allow Kasperski to play even though he has 8 horses running in 4 different tournament races. LIFE IS FAIR.

Let me go on the record and be perfectly clear.  I welcome Joe into any contest that I'm in, especially if he's going to be dumb enough to play his own horses.

-RSR
Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
Guest

« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2006, 12:25:28 PM »

Let me go on the record and be perfectly clear.  I welcome Joe into any contest that I'm in, especially if he's going to be dumb enough to play his own horses.

I have only been at one Hawthorne contest where Joe was playing and had a horse running that day. He went up to Scott and told him what he was going to do in that race, and Scott told everyone else.
Report to moderator   Logged
David
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 863




Ignore
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2006, 01:45:17 PM »

Is it legal for a trainer or owner to bet against his own horse? I know it isn't parimutually - but would that hold over to contests as well? I would think that it should not be allowed- especially if contests continue to mushroom like they have the last few years.

Reading through the Form that listed the field for the finals, I would venture a guess that 35 percent of the contestants are somehow owners or trainers or relatives of owners and trainers. And all these people qualified somewhere else, and probably tried to qualify many times or places before they did - so I think the conflict comes up more often than it would appear to. The main reason from what I understand of the whole finals and ntra involvement is to publicize what a great game it is - and when you end up with Wolfsons always up there or thier best friend Jamie Michaelson you may end up giving the impression that you need to be an insider to do well in this game and that might be self defeating of the entire intent.

Also, as another note, John Frank is always complaining about relatives winning etc, etc. Looking through the entries it seems that there are alot of wifes, girlfriends, cousins etc. etc. in the finals.
Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
Guest

« Reply #45 on: January 30, 2006, 01:56:06 PM »

Is it legal for a trainer or owner to bet against his own horse? I know it isn't parimutually - but would that hold over to contests as well? I would think that it should not be allowed- especially if contests continue to mushroom like they have the last few years.

I guess it depends on the contest. Form what RSR said they pay attention to these things at the NTRA contest. Contests like are run at Hawthorne and, I assume Arlington, they don't even ask. Though, for some odd reason, a few years back when Sportsman's or Hawthorne had their online survivor contest, anyone who was an owner or horseman was not allowed to play at all.

A question for RSR - What was the NTRA rule if the contestant had an interest in a horse that was in a "mandatory" race?

That's usually the situation that comes up in the local contests, as all the races are mandatory. What do you do then, force the guy to totally pass the race, or make the wager on his own horse even if he doesn't like it?
Report to moderator   Logged
David
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 863




Ignore
« Reply #46 on: January 30, 2006, 02:26:52 PM »

I do know some contests forbid it but I was thinking more on whether IRB rules or whatever locale the race is in forbid it. They obviously don't allow an owner or trainer to bet through a window against thier own, I don't think they should allow them to "bet" through a contest against thier own.
Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
Guest

« Reply #47 on: January 30, 2006, 02:47:59 PM »

I do know some contests forbid it but I was thinking more on whether IRB rules or whatever locale the race is in forbid it. They obviously don't allow an owner or trainer to bet through a window against thier own, I don't think they should allow them to "bet" through a contest against thier own.

I don't know if State law gives the IRB jurisdiction over the rules of contests. As long as the licensee observes the law about contestants getting back as much $ in freebies as their entry fee. (Which is going to be interesting, what Hawthorne is going to give away that will be worth $200.)

I wouldn't agree with contests forcing owners and horsemen to bet their own horse. What if you entered the race and it came up way tougher than you expected? OTOH, you can't keep them from betting anything in the race if it is a mandatory. You could keep them out of all contests altogether, but then you'd have contests with about 30 people in them.

My suggestion would be for the contest to make every horseman declare before the contest, and if he has a horse of interest in the contest that day, make public what he is going to do in regard to his horse, for or against.

Of course that still wouldn't be perfect, because if he said he was betting against his horse, and it then won at long odds, he'd be accused of intentionally steering people off his horse so his buddy the Maven could cash, or something like that. Someone will always find something to *** about when they lose handicapping contests, because the possibility that they just aren't a very good handicapper, or they just had a bad day, is inconceivable for most horseplayers. Especially ones who declare themselves the best in the world and who, presumably, would be raking in the dough hand over fist IF ONLY it wasn't for all the cheaters of the world out there holding them back.
Report to moderator   Logged
David
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 863




Ignore
« Reply #48 on: January 30, 2006, 03:16:03 PM »

Hawthorne is supposedly giving a season pass worth 300 bucks to all entrants (lot of good it will do people travelling in - probably the reason behind it).
Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
Guest

« Reply #49 on: January 30, 2006, 03:26:24 PM »

Hawthorne is supposedly giving a season pass worth 300 bucks to all entrants (lot of good it will do people travelling in - probably the reason behind it).

I don't know about that. Supposedly the $200 contest is limited to 250 participants, but only 100 of those spots are for sale / paid, presumably by locals. The other 150 are reserved for the weekly contest Top 3 (19 x 3), and then who knows who else, like maybe good Hawthorne or OTB customers, good customers from other tracks, and friends of friends. They've been using the weekly contests as "thank you" promotions for good customers as it is, at least there's been players signing in same time as me who didn't have to pay the $20 because they had management invitations. A good idea, I think.

Speaking of those $200 spots, still plenty left, as of last Saturday.
Report to moderator   Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.099 seconds with 16 queries.

Home
Upcoming events
Arlington Million
Horse slaughter in IL
Racing TV schedule
News Updates
Legislation

Galloping Out

Previous stories

Arlington
Balmoral
Hawthorne
Maywood
Chicago Sun-Times
Chicago Tribune
Blood-Horse
Daily Racing Form
Thoroughbred Times
Harness Link
Illinois Racing Board

 

2014

Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2013

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2012

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

More ebay items

 

Home | News Updates | Bloggers | Forums | Search
Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Advertising | Contact Us

Copyright © 2000-2014 Chicago Barn to Wire. All rights reserved.
Privacy policy