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Author Topic: I made this post and i would like it deleted .. Thank you  (Read 8938 times)
Dolfan
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« Reply #125 on: March 25, 2008, 02:23:40 PM »

Thank you all for your answers.  At least I know I'm not crazy now!  Well, I probably am but at least not about that!  As I said I've never been there & only catch the simulcast once a year, at the most!
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MercedesMan
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« Reply #126 on: March 25, 2008, 03:41:04 PM »

I love that combo 1/2 with sweeping 5/8 mile turns built into it i wish they would make Monticello just like that ...  trotter
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Harness1
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« Reply #127 on: March 25, 2008, 04:33:58 PM »

Claiming King - That's great except Delaware isn't a true half-mile track. Horses that couldn't make the turns on any other twice around get around that soup bowl like a hoop in a barrel.

Great point CKing and NJ.   Thay is why Nihilator raced in LBJ. 
Nihilator's only other race on a half was at Monti against B-1 pacers.

Bill Haughton didn't want him to have any part of a half. 
Haughton  raced all his other horses in 3 yr old stakes races no matter size track. Horses Like Mckinzie Almahurst in the James B Dancer at Freehold.

His 3 yr olds were always in Cane and Messsenger.  Except Nihilator.
Nihilator never would beat the Falcon or Dragon's Lair on a half.
 
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Claiming King
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« Reply #128 on: March 25, 2008, 04:55:15 PM »

I tend to think you're right. He had his hands full with Pershing Square in Delaware. I think he would have lost to him on a normal half. But I will say that Lou Guida probably had more to do with his schedule than Billy. All that chasing around after the world record seems kind of silly now. I do think Nihilator was a great horse and probably doesn't get mentioned enough in discussions of the all-timers.
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Dolfan
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« Reply #129 on: March 25, 2008, 09:17:25 PM »

I tend to think you're right. He had his hands full with Pershing Square in Delaware. I think he would have lost to him on a normal half. But I will say that Lou Guida probably had more to do with his schedule than Billy. All that chasing around after the world record seems kind of silly now. I do think Nihilator was a great horse and probably doesn't get mentioned enough in discussions of the all-timers.

I think he doesn't get mentioned because of his inabilities on the 1/2.  I personally never put him in my top 5 (of the ones that I saw) because I believe in the 1/2 & in complete horses, such as Niatross, Cam Fella,...
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MercedesMan
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« Reply #130 on: March 25, 2008, 09:34:57 PM »

I would love to see it passed that before you can be called a world champion you have to win on all size tracks.. Like the triple crown would be the The Jug . or the cane on a mile  .. And like the breeders crown on a 5/8 now the would be a true triple crown winner and world champion ... With all 3 races spreed out over the year....

That's great except Delaware isn't a true half-mile track. Horses that couldn't make the turns on any other twice around get around that soup bowl like a hoop in a barrel.
Even tho it has 5/8 mile turns its still a half just like Roosevelt was set up almost like it. On the other hand its a proven fact Monticello is just short of a half mile ...
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njhorseman
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« Reply #131 on: March 26, 2008, 05:58:07 AM »

On the other hand its a proven fact Monticello is just short of a half mile ...

Proven by whom? Where's the evidence?
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #132 on: March 26, 2008, 09:13:46 AM »

I think he doesn't get mentioned because of his inabilities on the 1/2.  I personally never put him in my top 5 (of the ones that I saw) because I believe in the 1/2 & in complete horses, such as Niatross, Cam Fella,...

Your comments directed at NIHILATOR I believe are little mistaken.

He won THE JUG,in straight heats in WORLD RECORD TIME.Any list without father and son are incomplete IMO.

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MercedesMan
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« Reply #133 on: March 26, 2008, 09:17:40 AM »

Proven by whom? Where's the evidence?
It is a fact look it up or ask any one whom ever has been their.. '' A FACT "" and i will not go on about this topic We know for a FACT ... Find out what they had to do a few years back at the finish line then repost .....
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Dolfan
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« Reply #134 on: March 26, 2008, 09:24:58 AM »

Your comments directed at NIHILATOR I believe are little mistaken.

He won THE JUG,in straight heats in WORLD RECORD TIME.Any list without father and son are incomplete IMO.



I'm going to have to go along with Harness 1 on this one.  Nihilator ducked the Cane & Messenger when those races were very meaningful.  Niatross & Cam Fella were the true world champions - any size track, any conditions.  That's why they are pacing royalty.


Claiming King - That's great except Delaware isn't a true half-mile track. Horses that couldn't make the turns on any other twice around get around that soup bowl like a hoop in a barrel.

Great point CKing and NJ.   Thay is why Nihilator raced in LBJ. 
Nihilator's only other race on a half was at Monti against B-1 pacers.

Bill Haughton didn't want him to have any part of a half. 
Haughton  raced all his other horses in 3 yr old stakes races no matter size track. Horses Like Mckinzie Almahurst in the James B Dancer at Freehold.

His 3 yr olds were always in Cane and Messsenger.  Except Nihilator.
Nihilator never would beat the Falcon or Dragon's Lair on a half.
 
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Harness1
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« Reply #135 on: March 26, 2008, 10:16:52 AM »

Thanks Dolfan!

Niatross -  Nihilator - World Record time - In LBJ-----

Falcon Seelster on that card 151.0 between heats set the World Record!

Nihilator barely held off stablemate Pershing Square.  If the stretch wasn't so short, he was by.
Back then the Lou Guida's of the world spent so much PR on Nihilator they always knocked stablemate
Pershing Square who was also a top horse from Niatross's 1st crop.
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Dolfan
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« Reply #136 on: March 26, 2008, 10:28:53 AM »

Thanks Dolfan!

Niatross -  Nihilator - World Record time - In LBJ-----

Falcon Seelster on that card 151.0 between heats set the World Record!

Nihilator barely held off stablemate Pershing Square.  If the stretch wasn't so short, he was by.
Back then the Lou Guida's of the world spent so much PR on Nihilator they always knocked stablemate
Pershing Square who was also a top horse from Niatross's 1st crop.

Pershing Square was a top notch 3 y.o.  I'll never forget the night Dragon's Lair was on the engine at Roosevelt & Pershing Square wore him down 1st over the whole last 1/2.  Lachance, who drove Dragon's Lair remarked about that years later - he was amazed that he got beat.  I believe O'donnel drove PS that night.
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Harness1
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« Reply #137 on: March 26, 2008, 10:51:28 AM »

Correct Dolfan.   I was there rooting for the Falcon.
For those who hate 1/2 mile racing, just watch those races.
4 great races.   

June 1985 - Falcon Seelster Ny debut  wins 1st elim with Flight of Fire 2nd. 157.0
                 Persing Square wins 2nd elim
                 Dragon Lair wins 3rd elim -1st time Lachance in track record 155.4 parking
                 Campbell Handsome Sum 1st half in 56.2.
        The final Harmer blames himself  for not leaving.  Bad rule allowed 3rd place finisher 
        The Denman from 1st heat the 9 hole in 2nd tier.
    Dragon left and no one else did.  1st half walking 59.2.  Pershing pulled from 3 hole and Falcon from the4 hole.
   The advantage Pershing got was he slipped into 2 hole before final turn as The Denman couldn't keep up in a 28.1 3rd qrtr. As they approached top of stretch Dragon had a little bobble and got back on stride quickly.  They raced to the wire and Pershing got up by a nose for Billy O in track record 155.2.  Pretty fast stepping 56.0 last half.
             
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Dolfan
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« Reply #138 on: March 26, 2008, 10:58:01 AM »

Correct Dolfan.   I was there rooting for the Falcon.

    Dragon left and no one else did.  1st half walking 59.2.  Pershing pulled from 3 hole and Falcon from the4 hole.
   The advantage Pershing got was he slipped into 2 hole before final turn as The Denman couldn't keep up in a 28.1 3rd qrtr. As they approached top of stretch Dragon had a little bobble and got back on stride quickly.  They raced to the wire and Pershing got up by a nose for Billy O in track record 155.2.  Pretty fast stepping 56.0 last half.
             

Can that classic be seen somewhere on Youtube?  The one thing I hadn't remembered was Pershing ducking in on the final turn.  I do remember that I was watching from those big colorful seats on the wire in the clubhouse.  (I think we used to pay like an extra $3 for them.)

By the way, FYI - "rooting" in Australia means having sex!  I'm not from & never been there, but know someone who always laughs when we say "rooting".
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njhorseman
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« Reply #139 on: March 26, 2008, 11:13:11 AM »

It is a fact look it up or ask any one whom ever has been their.. '' A FACT "" and i will not go on about this topic We know for a FACT ... Find out what they had to do a few years back at the finish line then repost .....

Look it up where?
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Harness1
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« Reply #140 on: March 26, 2008, 12:17:46 PM »

Dolfan - I remember Roosevelt  (best track and scoreboard in HR) $1.00 to get in under 21. Had to be there by 3rd race.
            8pm post time for the 1st.  Smiley

   As for youtube, not sure.  I used to have those races off of channel 9.

  The other great action was the cane pace 85 at Yonkers. Speaking of Falcon /Pershing.  1st heat Falcon parked Pershing in 55.1  and put him away to draw off by open lenghts in T.Record 153.4.  Dragon broke leaving from the outside in 2nd elim and didn't make final.
Falcon lost the final by a nose as Chairman got him Mr.Feelgood style out of the pocket.

Another great night I was at for heat racing was 1987 Pompano -Breeders Crown night.
  Mack Lobell won by double digits in world record.  Then Run the Table and Call for Rain in two epic battles. 
Jate Lobell 3rd in both races and still got divisional honors.   Roll Eyes

Nothing like heat racing, but of course we can't have that anymore.  Just like in baseball a pitcher's arm will fall off at the 100 pitch mark.   

     
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Claiming King
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« Reply #141 on: March 26, 2008, 12:26:37 PM »

Back then the Lou Guida's of the world spent so much PR on Nihilator they always knocked stablemate
Pershing Square who was also a top horse from Niatross's 1st crop.


Apples Thomas told me that Pershing Square couldn't even start Nihilator pacing. But he was really nifty on the small track. Still, there really isn't a comparison. Just because they kept him off the half doesn't mean he couldn't pace on one. The Haughton barn stopped training the two together because they didn't want to discourage Pershing Square- a nice horse in his own right. He just wasn't Nihilator. To me Nihilator should be spoken of with horses like Niatross and Dan Patch.
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Harness1
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« Reply #142 on: March 26, 2008, 12:59:08 PM »

Cking-
That is what they always stated about Pershing.   
Where was Nihilator in the Cane and Messenger?  LBJ they raced in because of the 5/8 turns.
Monti race had no one in it.  Everglade Mitzi a female I recall was in the monti inv race.  B-1 paces.
They avoided the half.   His schedule was set before the year to do so.
Haughton horses always were in the big races on the half. 

I guess Armbro Dallas / Maruader could go with Nihilator, but not Pershing.  Guida used to rave about Primus as well
that yr.   He did nothing.

How about the Meadowlands / Guida - staging a race for Nihilator on Hambo day to go after WR. They had Waples (involved in stud deal Nihilator)  leave with Shannon Majority to set a fast pace?  SMajority lines - never left the gate in the past.
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Claiming King
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« Reply #143 on: March 26, 2008, 01:11:44 PM »

Harness1-

It seems to me you're blaming the horse for the actions of his human connections. Obviously, you love Falcon Seelster. I could say he wasn't a great two-year-old. The fact is that Nihilator was undefeated on twice arounds. Surely you don't consider Green Day better than Donato Hanover because he raced more successfully on a half.
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Harness1
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« Reply #144 on: March 26, 2008, 01:15:20 PM »

I consider Nihilator a great horse. 
Just not with his father, Cam Otra who raced on all tracks. 

No Green Day is not Donato.....
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Claiming King
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« Reply #145 on: March 26, 2008, 01:24:15 PM »

Cam Fella is a different type of horse- all guts. Again, he didn't have the two-year-old season I think is necessary to enter that pantheon of greatness. You might say the same about OTRA. I certainly don't think either one was in Nihilator's league. It's a shame OTRA and Nihilator never raced.
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Harness1
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« Reply #146 on: March 26, 2008, 01:36:06 PM »

Like you say, a lot of them didn't race much at 2.  OTRA 5 starts in Canada.  Falcon 2 starts.

How great would it have been if Niatross and Nihilator raced at 4?
Galbraith wanted to race Niatross at 4.  But was turned down.
Probably a lot of being barred from the wagering.

I would like to have seen Tell All race this year.  He only raced as 3 yr old.
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Dolfan
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« Reply #147 on: March 26, 2008, 02:15:31 PM »


Nothing like heat racing, but of course we can't have that anymore.  Just like in baseball a pitcher's arm will fall off at the 100 pitch mark.   
     

Now, now, now.  You mustn't state the truth about the harness racing (or baseball) geniuses or about Barack's racism.  No, no - don't even think those things.

Another "great" move by harness racing.  Remember some of those old Hambos that went 3 heats?  Somehow the horses survived.  And by the way, I don't remember hearing that Bob Gibson's arm fell off!
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MercedesMan
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« Reply #148 on: March 26, 2008, 02:29:32 PM »

I have just been watching and i would like to say this is the best topics i have ever seen even talked about .. Their is no biger fan of Nihilator then me i raced side by side with him. His groom was chucky a great friend of mine.Nihilator was the first horse he ever took care of for the most part we all kided him about it. But in the LBJ Nihilator won because he had help from his stable mate pershing square if he would have not pushed Dignatarian  he was beat ... But he did win and ended up most likey one of the best speed horse's that ever raced any size track ...  trotter
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« Reply #149 on: March 26, 2008, 03:29:05 PM »

Now, now, now.  You mustn't state the truth about the harness racing (or baseball) geniuses or about Barack's racism.  No, no - don't even think those things.

Another "great" move by harness racing.  Remember some of those old Hambos that went 3 heats?  Somehow the horses survived.  And by the way, I don't remember hearing that Bob Gibson's arm fell off!
That's because Gibby was from an era long since past.Today, pitcher 'sarms do fall off literally every now and again.
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