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Author Topic: WHO WAS MORE IMPRESSIVE!  (Read 1658 times)
mottoman
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« on: February 12, 2008, 08:18:01 AM »

Saturday fairgrounds 2 great 3 year olds one male one female, if you are like me and believe the old addage that pace makes the race which horse was more impressive?  Pyro or Indian Blessing?  After watching the replay it's somewhat hard to believe that these early fractions are accurate.  If these 2 horses were in a match race next month at the same distance I would certainly be all over the filly but in a full field of top 3 year olds I would probably be in Pyro's corner.  Very interesting from a handicapping angle!!

NEW ORLEANS - Indian Blessing got from Point A to Point B much faster than did Pyro on Saturday at Fair Grounds, running 1 1/16 miles in the Silverbulletday Stakes almost one second faster than Pyro did winning the Risen Star. But while Indian Blessing visibly tired in her final furlong, Pyro came through the stretch like he had been shot from a cannon, covering his final quarter-mile in less than 23 seconds on the way to an improbable last-to-first win.

The question of which horse - filly or colt - ran a better race figures to occasion lively debate among racing fans this week, and fortunately, both horses emerged in good physical shape, their trainers said Monday.

While Pyro is a likely starter in the Louisiana Derby here on Marcho8, Indian Blessing was scheduled to return to trainer Bob Baffert's home base in California on Tuesday.

"I'm going to get her back here and monitor her here. She wasn't as tired as she was the one before," said Baffert, referring to Indian Blessing's narrow win last month at Santa Anita.

Baffert said Indian Blessing was likely to make her next start on dirt, adding that she was now firmly being pointed to the Kentucky Oaks. Indian Blessing, still undefeated after five starts, has looked ripe for passing in the stretch run of her two two-turn races, but she so far has held off all challengers, and did so Saturday through the longest stretch in North America.

"That's why I took her down there, to see if she could handle that," Baffert said. "A true two-turn horse will get it done."

Indian Blessing was timed in 1:43.75, and was given a Beyer Speed Figure of 99. Pyro was timed in 1:44.68, worth only a 90 Beyer, but there was no way Pyro could have run a fast final time. The Silverbulletday's first half-mile was run in 47.15 seconds, while the Risen Star went in a glacial 49.50. At that juncture, Pyro was last of 11, about seven lengths behind the leaders, and in 11th he stayed until launching a memorable run at the top of the stretch.

"Pyro's race was extremely impressive," trainer Steve Asmussen said. "It wasn't a fast final time, but I was concerned about it being too hard a race. He ran a quarter-mile, and how hard was that?"

Asmussen said both Pyro and Z Fortune, who lost for the first time while finishing second in the Risen Star, would breeze next Monday. Plans for Z Fortune aren't set, Asmussen said.

The trainer hopes to meet with owner Ahmed Zayat "and we'll map out a plan," Asmussen said. "I think we'll know a lot, how much it took out of him, after he breezes. Hopefully, he's still moving forward."
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mottoman
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« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2008, 08:22:26 AM »

Here is another comment from Steve Crist's Blog -

Pace Made the Figs
It's astounding to visualize what a combination of Saturday's Silverbulletday and Risen Star would have looked like if Indian Blessing and Pyro had run the same races against each other that they did against the clock: Indian Blessing would have been about 28 lengths in front of Pyro after six furlongs, and Pyro would have made up more than 20 lengths on her in the final five-sixteenths of a mile.

As the breakdown below of the fractions of Saturday's three 1 1/16-mile Fair Grounds stakes shows, the races were run in dramatically different fashion. This obviously affected the final times. Some might find it counterintuitive that a tiring Indian Blessing earned a Beyer Speed Figure of 99 winning the Silverbulletday while Pyro's supersonic finish in the Risen Star earned him only a 90, but this is entirely a function of their final times: Indian Blessing stopped the clock in 1:43.75 while Pyro took 1:44.68 to cover the same distance
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mel4600
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« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2008, 08:34:08 AM »

I was more a little more impressed with Pyro because I also believe that pace makes race. Since the pace was extremely slow in the early fractions there should have been no way a horse should have closed like Pyro did. That was absolutely a huge finish in a paceless race that you won't see to often.

Until someone shows me otherwise, War Pass is still the one to beat. We will find out if he is still superior as a 3 year old.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2008, 08:36:08 AM by mel4600 » Report to moderator   Logged
edwarren
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« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2008, 10:43:00 AM »

You're down on War Pass in pool 1 Mel.

Until you see something better.

LOL.
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mottoman
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« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2008, 11:56:34 AM »

Agree for a horse like Pyro to close so dramatically from that slow pace is very impressive.  Visually looking at those race replays I have some dought to the validity of those pace fractions, I guess we will see in time. 
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edwarren
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« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2008, 03:03:49 PM »

he came home a fast quarter.

Remember Circular Quay? He circled the field a couple of time as I recall, but haven't heard much lately.

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Jim C
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« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2008, 03:36:24 PM »

Pyro was very impressive, but its hard to do something like that in a race like the Derby do to the amount of traffic. But I am looking forward to seeing War Pass and Pyro meet again.

I am a bit concerned about Indian Blessing only because she has been all out to win her lat two races. If she comes up against a good well rested horse I think she will get beat.
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edwarren
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« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2008, 03:51:27 PM »

sorry ,You know me, always arguing. Im worse than terry.

But anyway. She's got it. Take a look at her. the way she kicks. shes got that action - like a spring. head down, theres more inside this one.

She may have need excuse but I think it will take a very good filly to beat her. Maybe she'll be beat if she stretches out, I'm not smart enough to know.

Remember beautiful pleasure?
Always had that big lead and held on to win plenty of high class races. not all but many many.

THese young ones, they hold there form. if IB has good feet she's as good as the boys. she's been challenged once, (7f) and I know from watching her, she had gas in the tank that day.

I hope proud spell doesn't break down chasing her.

she buried that armonk who tried racing against her on the lead. beat her by an entire pole.
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glahn
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« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2008, 04:28:05 PM »

I was more a little more impressed with Pyro because I also believe that pace makes race. Since the pace was extremely slow in the early fractions there should have been no way a horse should have closed like Pyro did. That was absolutely a huge finish in a paceless race that you won't see to often.

Until someone shows me otherwise, War Pass is still the one to beat. We will find out if he is still superior as a 3 year old.

Looking at his race before the BC, it didn't seem that he would be a horse to get 1-1/4.
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pamwaggy
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« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2008, 07:49:57 PM »

I almost had to eat my cowboy hat because my husband called this race perfectly.

He gave me a break because I was making brandied chicken for dinner.  Whew.
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mel4600
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« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2008, 09:04:01 AM »

Looking at his race before the BC, it didn't seem that he would be a horse to get 1-1/4.

Only time will tell. We need to see if War Pass improves in his 3 year old year. He soundly beat everything in his 2 year old season including Pyro 3 times. No other 2 year old has ever posted the kind of Beyer figs that War Pass has. Can't wait to see him run as a 3 year old.
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mel4600
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« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2008, 09:06:57 AM »

You're down on War Pass in pool 1 Mel.

Until you see something better.

LOL.

Maybe its your attitude the prevents you from picking winners. Pick him next time out so you can finally pick a winner on this forum!
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edwarren
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« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2008, 09:42:02 AM »

I have picked him and you're down. Good luck.
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edwarren
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« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2008, 09:57:05 AM »

I had a pretty good run there that no one complicated me on That's how this site is but I don't mind.

Personally, I'm up $3400 since Nov 3. On Jan 31 I was up $3800 so I lost $400 since then and as low as $3000 on feb 6.


So, that's how I been doing, Mel4600, since you're making it your business.




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mel4600
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« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2008, 10:25:48 AM »

I had a pretty good run there that no one complicated me on That's how this site is but I don't mind.

Personally, I'm up $3400 since Nov 3. On Jan 31 I was up $3800 so I lost $400 since then and as low as $3000 on feb 6.


So, that's how I been doing, Mel4600, since you're making it your business.



Since you're that good I sure wish you would have posted some of your winners!
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edwarren
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« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2008, 10:55:51 AM »

I wish I could too ! Mel4600 don't even think about it. I posted a good run earlier and a couple of folks complicated me. I got lucky.

I could lose everything tomorrow. I'm not a bad handicapper but I'm not real superior either. That's when I bother with it.  I experience the same problems as anyone else gambling. Mistakes, laziness and lack of discipline.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2008, 11:34:49 AM by edwarren » Report to moderator   Logged
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