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Author Topic: ROBIN  (Read 5670 times)
TC
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« on: October 31, 2005, 10:10:54 AM »

I would like to know everyone's (clean) opinion of Odds On Racing and its point person.  I'm kicking things off with the "Rome wasn't built in a day speech" followed by the fact that quick buck artists come and go, with their trunks full of tubing kits, sodium bicarbonate jugs, and "black tackle boxes", but you have to be patient with speculative frosh/sophs, and must have a solid business plan to race on a continental scale.  While Odds On Racing hasn't yet achieved unbridled success, a la Anderson Raing in the mid '90s, all the infrastructure is there to start raising champions in multitude.  Perhaps some of her help like Ms. Erickson or someone can comment on operations at the farm.  If you take an opposing view, all I ask is you clarify and qualify your remarks.  TC
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njhorseman
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« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2005, 01:22:40 PM »

TC:
Earlier this year, I crunched a few numbers for their yearling purchases. I can't find them right now, but suffice it say the results were frighteningly bad. In total, the horses they bought at the sales had only earned back a fraction of their purchase price (including ones that already were 4 and in their third year of racing). Add in training costs, stakes payments and a couple of million in capital expenditures to build the farm, and you're talking major financial disaster. Is it a surprise that they totally disappeared from the yearling market last year? My guess is you won't be seeing much of them at Harrisburg over the next week, either. Dana Parham could have gotten a better ROI by putting all his cash in a bank that was going to get knocked over by Willie Sutton ten minutes after he made the deposit.

Also having seen the results (or lack there of) of Robin's racing at the Meadowlands, my only possible conclusion is that this could be the worst large scale operation in the history of harness racing. She must be totally clueless either as a trainer, stable manager, or both.
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sn
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« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2005, 01:33:54 PM »

Paul you are wrong once again!!! Robin has already been on a buying spree at Hanover and Perretti farms and will be at Harrisburg in a couple weeks with "Guns" Blazin!!!!
You are forgeting money is no object!!! its all about fun fun fun!!!!
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njhorseman
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« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2005, 01:41:02 PM »

Paul you are wrong once again!!! Robin has already been on a buying spree at Hanover and Perretti farms and will be at Harrisburg in a couple weeks with "Guns" Blazin!!!!
You are forgeting money is no object!!! its all about fun fun fun!!!!

Since Hanover sells all its yearlings at the various auctions (the majority at Harrisbug), I doubt she's been on a buying spree there. If she shows up in a couple of weeks it will be too late, because the sale starts a week from today.  Wink
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2005, 01:46:00 PM »

TC:
Earlier this year, I crunched a few numbers for their yearling purchases. I can't find them right now, but suffice it say the results were frighteningly bad. In total, the horses they bought at the sales had only earned back a fraction of their purchase price (including ones that already were 4 and in their third year of racing). Add in training costs, stakes payments and a couple of million in capital expenditures to build the farm, and you're talking major financial disaster. Is it a surprise that they totally disappeared from the yearling market last year? My guess is you won't be seeing much of them at Harrisburg over the next week, either. Dana Parham could have gotten a better ROI by putting all his cash in a bank that was going to get knocked over by Willie Sutton ten minutes after he made the deposit.

Also having seen the results (or lack there of) of Robin's racing at the Meadowlands, my only possible conclusion is that this could be the worst large scale operation in the history of harness racing. She must be totally clueless either as a trainer, stable manager, or both.

The last big yearling crop they purchased (now 3), was approximately $1.1MM.  Outside of Odds On Duane, who was second in the Hoosier Cup -- I don't really think they made any waves.

They had a couple good older horses (from yearlings sales), that probably encouraged Parham to take the dive...suffice it to say they've yet to find another Odds On Charmaine, Odds On Dana (who will now stand stud in IL), or Odds On Michelle.

Odds On seems to do much better at the claiming game, excellent in fact.  They seemed to be going for broke on this whole breeding operation, and I think they may have succeeded.  In order to get back, all they can hope for is that some of those $100k yearlings can produce some most amazing progeny.

Now, as far as the people and the facility -- top notch.  Had the pleasure of touring the place, and all I can say is: wow.  They seem to want to do it "right" there, and the people and facility are great.  Additionally, Robin is a very knowledgeable and friendly person.  I hope they can succeed, because we need stables that will put $$ into IL racing.

They're standing two studs in IL this year: Odds On Dana (Artiscape-Nadia Lobell-No Nukes!!) and Make It Brief (Camluck-Lingerie-Abercrombie).  Both at $3,000 -- maybe these guys can help not only Odds On, but the state of IL.

Best,
EW
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« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2005, 01:47:39 PM »

Couple of weeks , a few days you know what I'm saying Paul!!! and I can also tell you that most of the Hanover stock has already been purchased before they ever hit that sales ring!!!

Learn the game!!! Paul oh I forgot you know all about it!!!
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« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2005, 01:56:28 PM »

Paul,

Thanks for your posts. I find them most informative.
While not everyone is always 100% accurate, I can see that you try to be.
Thanks for the accurate info!

For my money, one of Odds On's weaknesses in stakes eliminations is Tetrick.
He is often out there gunning like there is no tomorrow, when tomorrow is what they're racing for.
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2005, 02:01:02 PM »

Paul,

Thanks for your posts. I find them most informative.
While not everyone is always 100% accurate, I can see that you try to be.
Thanks for the accurate info!

Most agreed.

For my money, one of Odds On's weaknesses in stakes eliminations is Tetrick.
He is often out there gunning like there is no tomorrow, when tomorrow is what they're racing for.

Question: when a driver drives full-time for a stable, like Tim does for Odds On -- is there generally some sort of "cut" worked out?  Basically, do they work a "deal" out for giving the driver so many drives?  Just curious...

Best,
EW
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« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2005, 02:02:13 PM »

While we're on the subject of Robin lets clear something up. Robin's name WAS NOT on any list for taxes owed. Dana's was but not Robin.

    Also, for the record Jim Eaton's name was not on any such list either.

    " GET YOUR INFO CORRECT BEFORE POSTING IT LADDIES "

    Now go back on topic.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2005, 02:04:49 PM »

Couple of weeks , a few days you know what I'm saying Paul!!! and I can also tell you that most of the Hanover stock has already been purchased before they ever hit that sales ring!!!

Learn the game!!! Paul oh I forgot you know all about it!!!

Yes, I know what you're saying. By the way, almost 700 yearlings were sold in Lexington earlier this month.  They bought exactly zero.

As for your statement about the Hanover stock being purchased before they get to the sale, I have a one word response...bullshit. Try emailing Murray Brown, the sale's general manager, and ask him about that.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2005, 02:05:14 PM »

Hello ***!

How would the world survive without you?
Did President Bush seek your input for his Supreme Court nominee?
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njhorseman
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« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2005, 02:06:21 PM »

Paul,

Thanks for your posts. I find them most informative.
While not everyone is always 100% accurate, I can see that you try to be.
Thanks for the accurate info!

For my money, one of Odds On's weaknesses in stakes eliminations is Tetrick.
He is often out there gunning like there is no tomorrow, when tomorrow is what they're racing for.


Thanks for the compliment!
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njhorseman
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« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2005, 02:10:39 PM »

Most agreed.

Question: when a driver drives full-time for a stable, like Tim does for Odds On -- is there generally some sort of "cut" worked out?  Basically, do they work a "deal" out for giving the driver so many drives?  Just curious...

Best,
EW

EW:
It's not unknown for the "big boys" to command a little bigger piece of the action in return for committing to your horse in the major stakes races.

A guy like Tetrick is hardly in a position to command anything extra. He should be grateful for the opportunity. But, who knows...
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sn
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« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2005, 02:12:10 PM »

Ok Paul, all I can tell you is to "Lean The Game" my freind, some things cannot be admitted to or published!!!
would you like me to put the list in JD's book of all the horses that I have bought and sold long before they ever hit the sales ring, and all the kickbacks that were given back to trainers from certain farms after overpaying for yearlings at the sales?Huh
you'll see, everyone will learn alot of things about the game!!! be patient!!!
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2005, 02:13:21 PM »

EW:
It's not unknown for the "big boys" to command a little bigger piece of the action in return for committing to your horse in the major stakes races.

A guy like Tetrick is hardly in a position to command anything extra. He should be grateful for the opportunity. But, who knows...

In this case, Paul -- I would actually be wondering if it's backwards.  Can they pay Timmy less because they give him so many drives?  Almost how (I suppose) you'd put a trainer on salary (with potential bonus), if they ran your whole stable?

Best,
EW
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2005, 02:15:21 PM »

Hello ***!

How would the world survive without you?
Did President Bush seek your input for his Supreme Court nominee?

As long as you're here Tom the world will be just fine. Bush is the worst president in the history of the US.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2005, 02:18:15 PM »

Ok Paul, all I can tell you is to "Lean The Game" my freind, some things cannot be admitted to or published!!!
would you like me to put the list in JD's book of all the horses that I have bought and sold long before they ever hit the sales ring, and all the kickbacks that were given back to trainers from certain farms after overpaying for yearlings at the sales?Huh
you'll see, everyone will learn alot of things about the game!!! be patient!!!

That's right SN......we're going to BLOW THE LID of harness racing when Joe's book comes out.

    Tell Paul about what went on at Harrisburg when we sold Clark Gable out there back in 98.
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sn
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« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2005, 02:18:30 PM »

That sounds like a LeVin move with that contract stuff, it doesnt work in this game there is no loyalty you;re as good as your last win!!! Big John carver tried that also going out a recruting Walter Case and sighning him to an exclusive contract!!! you seen what happened there, when he found out what kind of trainer he was driving for contract or no contract Walter said Bye Bye!!!
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njhorseman
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« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2005, 02:23:48 PM »

Ok Paul, all I can tell you is to "Lean The Game" my freind, some things cannot be admitted to or published!!!
would you like me to put the list in JD's book of all the horses that I have bought and sold long before they ever hit the sales ring, and all the kickbacks that were given back to trainers from certain farms after overpaying for yearlings at the sales?Huh
you'll see, everyone will learn alot of things about the game!!! be patient!!!

SN:
All the things you say do happen...but that is a far cry from your claim that most of Hanover's yearlings are sold before the auction.

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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2005, 02:25:50 PM »

That's right SN......we're going to BLOW THE LID of harness racing when Joe's book comes out.

    Tell Paul about what went on at Harrisburg when we sold Clark Gable out there back in 98.



Dan,

How much more do you think you know than anyone else involved in the game?

Some of your stories might surprise me, but someone that's head-over-heels in harness racing?  I would highly doubt it.  But just guessing here...I doubt your experience could be THAT MUCH different than anyone else's.

Best,
EW
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« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2005, 02:26:33 PM »

They just dont get it cause they have'nt lived it like us!!! there are more back room deals and swindling of owners cash at those sales than go on anywhere!!!

Just wait til we "Blow the lid off Harness racing"!!!
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2005, 02:27:24 PM »

all the kickbacks that were given back to trainers from certain farms after overpaying for yearlings at the sales?Huh

I was curious about this.  I've noticed some interesting bidding patterns at some of the auctions I've attended...

Best,
EW
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« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2005, 02:31:21 PM »

In this case, Paul -- I would actually be wondering if it's backwards.  Can they pay Timmy less because they give him so many drives?  Almost how (I suppose) you'd put a trainer on salary (with potential bonus), if they ran your whole stable?

Best,
EW

EW:
I've never heard of a driver doing that. Since I've had a private trainer, I can tell you from personal experience how it works. The salary you pay is in lieu of the trainer's usual per diem training fee. You don't pay him $35 per day per head, for example...you pay him a salary, and you directly pay the other stable expenses. It's just like you would do in any other business you owned that has employees.  He still keeps the 5% ( and might get more) commission as a performance-based bonus.
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2005, 02:32:51 PM »

EW:
I've never heard of a driver doing that. Since I've had a private trainer, I can tell you from personal experience how it works. The salary you pay is in lieu of the trainer's usual per diem training fee. You don't pay him $35 per day per head, for example...you pay him a salary, and you directly pay the other stable expenses. It's just like you would do in any other business you owned that has employees.  He still keeps the 5% ( and might get more) commission as a performance-based bonus.

Gotcha.  So many negotiating the $25 fee away, but that's it?

So, there's no way to be competitive for drives?  For example, I wanted to offer myself at 3% (still overpaying -- haha), I couldn't?

Best,
Ew
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« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2005, 02:36:05 PM »

Gotcha.  So many negotiating the $25 fee away, but that's it?

So, there's no way to be competitive for drives?  For example, I wanted to offer myself at 3% (still overpaying -- haha), I couldn't?

Best,
Ew

EW:
I guess you could do whatever you want.  Shocked  Grin
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sn
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« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2005, 02:38:45 PM »

EW, forget about it!!! dont listen to Paul, I'm telling you first hand at those sales its all about getting the owners cash !!!! period!!
Dont get me wrong I'm not saying that Robin does this at all SHE DOES NOT I'm talking about other guys, the guys that work the sales every year that train for big time buyers and prominent owners that know nothing about racing.
All the farms like han. ect. want to do is get their babbys out there to the best trainers so they have a good chance of getting them to the races. The more that make the track the more people will buy (ledgitimentally) from that farm.
I have seen one trainer make a deal with a farm to overpay for a well bred yearling with a defect just to get the publicity with the understanding that a $50,000 credit would be given to the trainer to pick out whatever he wanted for himself. He bought the colt for $175,000 bought 2 others for $25,000 ( that he never paid a dime for) and sold those two to other owners and stiil got to train them and collect a training bill!!!!

Things go on that you grandstand guys cant even imagine!!!
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njhorseman
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« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2005, 02:47:28 PM »

I was curious about this.  I've noticed some interesting bidding patterns at some of the auctions I've attended...

Best,
EW

EW:
Some of the stuff that goes on would make your hair stand on end. Consignor bid-ins to jack up the prices, buy backs through hidden agents, unannounced reserves, post auction private resales, etc. It is jungle out there. Cheesy But, everyone who is been in the business for more than 15 minutes knows it and tries to sniff out any funny stuff surrounding the horses he is bidding on.

Private sales of horses are no better. Dual agents representing both buyer and seller, and getting a commission from both, unbeknownst to either. Old and new trainers each reaching in a for a piece of the pie by telling the prior owner that the horse sold for less than the new owner actually paid. (Watch out if your asked to write out more than one check when you're buying a horse.  Wink)

The Nances won't be blowing the lid off of anything for the people who are actually in the business. They are just posturing and strutting like peacocks for the purpose of impressing what they like to call the "goofs."  Grin
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njhorseman
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« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2005, 02:52:40 PM »

EW, forget about it!!! dont listen to Paul, I'm telling you first hand at those sales its all about getting the owners cash !!!! period!!
Dont get me wrong I'm not saying that Robin does this at all SHE DOES NOT I'm talking about other guys, the guys that work the sales every year that train for big time buyers and prominent owners that know nothing about racing.
All the farms like han. ect. want to do is get their babbys out there to the best trainers so they have a good chance of getting them to the races. The more that make the track the more people will buy (ledgitimentally) from that farm.
I have seen one trainer make a deal with a farm to overpay for a well bred yearling with a defect just to get the publicity with the understanding that a $50,000 credit would be given to the trainer to pick out whatever he wanted for himself. He bought the colt for $175,000 bought 2 others for $25,000 ( that he never paid a dime for) and sold those two to other owners and stiil got to train them and collect a training bill!!!!

Things go on that you grandstand guys cant even imagine!!!

SN:
Have you bothered to actually read anything I've written? Did I say it wasn't about getting the owners cash? Anyone who sells anything in this world is trying to get the buyer's cash!

I also said that the things you are talking about do go on! That, however, does not mean that the sale of every horse, or even the majority of horses, or even anything more than a small minority of horses sold are shady deals.

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« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2005, 03:01:22 PM »

Your only addmitting to it now that I have said it Paul!!! You Said to go call Murray Brown!!! no such thing happens!!! now you're changing your tune. look I'm not saying that DN and Myself are the only ones that know about this kind of stuff!!! I'm saying we are the only ones that will TELL IT LIKE IT IS!!!!!! other people are affraid to talk about it. DN and myself WILL blow the lid of harness racing in JD's book!!! And the ONLY purpose will be to try to better the game for everyone involved. People should know THE TRUTH about what goes on good or bad!!!!
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« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2005, 03:07:51 PM »

No, SN, I am saying it now after you've insisted on exaggerating everything. And I still say you should talk to Murray Brown, in case you really think that MOST of their yearlings are pre-sold.
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« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2005, 03:11:04 PM »

Maybe I'll just have JD put in print the record of deals between JS, MB, and Val d' or farms!!!!
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« Reply #31 on: October 31, 2005, 03:24:15 PM »

Boy I can't wait until this tell all book comes out!!!!!
Will it come out the same time *** Bros. Inc. come back to save Illinois harness racing???
Paul, as for impressing the "goofs" they've called me a "goof" a million times.
They don't impress me at all.
They didn't impress me when they were training horses either.
I can't wait until they "blow the lid off of harness racing"!!!!!!!!!!
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« Reply #32 on: October 31, 2005, 03:39:23 PM »

Boy I sure hope it comes out at that time!!!! were not trying to impress anyone we just "TELL IT LIKE IT IS" dont you get it yet???
We dont care what anybody thinks!!!

Oh and by the way, when we whirl into town you will see who the only "CLAIMING KINGS" are!!!!!
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« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2005, 03:42:32 PM »

Farrington was the Claiming King before Rambling Willie.
When he came back to Chicago after Willie, he became the Claiming King again.
You don't fit into that picture ***.
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« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2005, 03:47:01 PM »

Sure he was!!! show me an article that said the "REDMAN' was the "Claiming King" and then I will produce a real story from Kim Rinker that named the REAL "CLAIMING KING"!!!!
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« Reply #35 on: October 31, 2005, 03:49:31 PM »

Was the article retracted after your troubles started?
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« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2005, 03:56:39 PM »

Your wrong!!!! it was well after!!! 1984 was our trouble, we won 100's of races after that!!! but then again you knew that cause you were a guest handicapper and acually picked a couple of our winners!!!
that sure was a nice haircut you had did you get that at Ronnies barber?Huh
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« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2005, 03:58:08 PM »

Hey ***!
Three words for you.
GET SOME HELP!!!!!!!
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sn
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« Reply #38 on: October 31, 2005, 04:02:27 PM »

Hey Ghoster
three words for you

JUST GO AWAY!!!!
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redneck
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« Reply #39 on: October 31, 2005, 11:03:08 PM »

Here is the website link to get the accurate figures just go to about us
and they list all their three year olds starts money earned etc.

http://oddsonracing.com/

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« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2005, 02:57:12 AM »

If Dana is losing his ass racing in Illinois,he certainly won't have to pay Illinois income tax as a result.
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« Reply #41 on: November 11, 2005, 11:09:13 AM »

Paul you are wrong once again!!! Robin has already been on a buying spree at Hanover and Perretti farms and will be at Harrisburg in a couple weeks with "Guns" Blazin!!!!
You are forgeting money is no object!!! its all about fun fun fun!!!!

SN:
Thought I'd just tweak you a bit on this one.  Grin

In going through the Harrisburg yearling sale results, unless I missed something, it looks like Robin only bought two horses, one for $100,000, and one for $62,000. Hardly "guns blazing", is it, given that Odds On has spent more than $1 million on babies in some years in the past.

The horses were bought in Robin's own name, not as agent, and not in the Odds On name, so who knows if they're even for Parham...she could have bought them for herself.
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« Reply #42 on: November 11, 2005, 11:42:51 AM »

they are pulling a buggie she did not to to sell at the sale
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« Reply #43 on: November 11, 2005, 12:26:35 PM »

TC:
Earlier this year, I crunched a few numbers for their yearling purchases. I can't find them right now, but suffice it say the results were frighteningly bad. In total, the horses they bought at the sales had only earned back a fraction of their purchase price (including ones that already were 4 and in their third year of racing). Add in training costs, stakes payments and a couple of million in capital expenditures to build the farm, and you're talking major financial disaster. Is it a surprise that they totally disappeared from the yearling market last year? My guess is you won't be seeing much of them at Harrisburg over the next week, either. Dana Parham could have gotten a better ROI by putting all his cash in a bank that was going to get knocked over by Willie Sutton ten minutes after he made the deposit.



NJ, I have heard from someone who is a reliable source that she (ROBIN) is not liked at the horse sales, hard to believe with the money she spends but when she pays big money for good bred babies and does so bad with them or they dont even make it the races they are not happy. I HEARD that makes the breeders very unhappy. This is from a very good trainer that is not making this stuff up. You know some trainers and breeders that attend these sales so see what they say about this.

We all know that she does not have money to spend of her own to buy these high priced yearlings. COM'ON GET REAL!!!

Just remember this line in Hotel California Song (it fits in the harness racing business

There's lots of shady characters and lots of dirty deals
Every name's an alias in case somebody squeals
It's the lure of easy money, Its got a very strong appeal
Perhaps you'd understand it better standing in her shoes
It's the ultimate enticement, it's the horseracing sale blues 8) 8)

Also having seen the results (or lack there of) of Robin's racing at the Meadowlands, my only possible conclusion is that this could be the worst large scale operation in the history of harness racing. She must be totally clueless either as a trainer, stable manager, or both.
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« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2005, 12:49:04 PM »

Nances-

What yearlings did you ever buy? At which vendues were you ever significant players?

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying that those Kentucky hardboots would turn you boys inside out if you actually had the balls or the cash to play the yearling game yourselves.
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« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2005, 12:56:39 PM »

Nances-

What yearlings did you ever buy? At which vendues were you ever significant players?

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying that those Kentucky hardboots would turn you boys inside out if you actually had the balls or the cash to play the yearling game yourselves.

No, didn't buy many yearlings at VENDUES. Are yearlings were home bred by a few of our owners.

    Besides, we never had owners with DEEP pockets who ran OFFSHORE REBATE SHOPS.
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Claiming King
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« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2005, 01:19:37 PM »

So how is it that you are experts about something you have no first-hand knowledge about? Seems to me you're just a couple of GOOFS spouting off.

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« Reply #47 on: November 11, 2005, 01:30:18 PM »

So how is it that you are experts about something you have no first-hand knowledge about? Seems to me you're just a couple of GOOFS spouting off.



What do we have no first-hand knowledge about? We've been through it all pal. Sales included.

    You're the goof for stealing my claim to fame. I'm the " Claiming King " find your own damn name. GOOF!!
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« Reply #48 on: November 11, 2005, 02:12:59 PM »

What yearlings have you ever purchased at one of the major vendues? You know, like Old Glory or Liberty Bell or Harrisburg or Tattersalls or Ky. Standardbred. I'm not talking about a piece of shit you got from some hillbilly in Joppa or a cripple Rudie Hendricks pawned off on your no-trainin' ass.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #49 on: November 11, 2005, 02:19:49 PM »

What yearlings have you ever purchased at one of the major vendues? You know, like Old Glory or Liberty Bell or Harrisburg or Tattersalls or Ky. Standardbred. I'm not talking about a piece of shit you got from some hillbilly in Joppa or a cripple Rudie Hendricks pawned off on your no-trainin' ass.

So, I'm a no-trainin' ass am I? Tell me hotshot how many lifetime wins do you have? What have you ever done. NOTHING, or you wouldn't be stealing my name and would be posting under your real name like I do if you accomplished anything in this business.

    Get lost bustout!!!! You're not worth my time you no-trainin' ass.
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« Reply #50 on: November 11, 2005, 02:21:03 PM »

Why is it so difficult for you to answer simple questions? Are you off your meds again?
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #51 on: November 11, 2005, 02:30:16 PM »

Why is it so difficult for you to answer simple questions? Are you off your meds again?

What difference does it make to you? Enjoy yourself, I'VE BEEN THERE....DONE THAT.


     
Find a new screen name. You didn't earn that title, my no train' ass did
[/b]
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« Reply #52 on: November 11, 2005, 03:01:18 PM »

Son, I was claiming horses when you were playing t-ball. I remember when Bergstein wrote the first claimer. So stop your nonsense. And you and your brother should stop popping off about stuff you don't know about. Again, I'm not saying that SN's ideas regarding the sales are off-base, because they're not. It's just that the *** brothers have no frame of reference.
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sn
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« Reply #53 on: November 11, 2005, 03:17:40 PM »

Mr. Elder Statesman, We have bought horses at sales, sold horses at sales, been part of back room deals, been burned by back room deals, doctored horses up to get through sales, bought horses that have been doctored up to get through sales, been lied to at sales, had phont bids placed agaist us at sales, been called the next day after we were outbid to by horses at sales, beleive me we have been thru it all!!!
When you say we were never involved in the yearling GAME. You are wrong!!! we have bought yearlings at sales before, big players NO!!! The reason being because its just what you say it is a GAME ( of diseption) we wanted no part of that RACKET!!! all the yearlings we did buy were for ourselves and no owners!!!
By the way, those Nickel bred, home bred, rejects from Joppa wound up beating all the sale toppers those years!!!

By the way we had our choice of buying one of two yearlings that Mike Borys had one year, they were both B.S. Skipper colts, one was $15,000 and the other was $10,000 we liked them both, our owner chose the one for $10,000 (of course) his name was Sir Render the others name was Hothead!!!
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« Reply #54 on: November 11, 2005, 03:26:16 PM »

Did the guy hang himself scott? j/k did his horse make any money?
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« Reply #55 on: November 11, 2005, 03:30:44 PM »

Sir Render was a nice horse. I think he actually beat Hothead once or twice.

Anybody remember the first horse to beat Hothead?
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sn
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« Reply #56 on: November 11, 2005, 03:32:00 PM »

Bigdaddy, it was pretty nerve racking because we races against Hothead all year and had to watch him dominate that division but Sir Render did beat Hothead in the Cardinal Elim. at Maywood and should have beat him in the final if not for a bad draw and a unlucky trip!!!
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #57 on: November 11, 2005, 03:49:58 PM »

Bigdaddy, it was pretty nerve racking because we races against Hothead all year and had to watch him dominate that division but Sir Render did beat Hothead in the Cardinal Elim. at Maywood and should have beat him in the final if not for a bad draw and a unlucky trip!!!

SN
         It was the Maywood Pace Elim. that Sir Render beat Hothead in. And your right, if it wasn't for a bad trip or drive whatever you want to call it Sir would have won the final. He was dead last in a 10 horse field at Maywood turning for home and finished forth beat 2 lenghts. We had that sucker ready to win and got a horrible trip.

        I have "Sir Render's" win picture on the wall in my office when he won that race and beat"Hothead" with " Boom Boom  up.

        It was " Skippers Strike " who beat " Hothead " and " Sir Render " on 5-3-1985 at Maywood in the 41K stake final. Sir Render broke at the start with the 2 hole with Davey up and came back and finished 2nd beat 3/4 of a lenght after being dead last at the quarter 15 lenghts behind. Hothead ran 3rd that night.
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