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Author Topic: Breatherlizer  (Read 4570 times)
County Fair Racing
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« on: October 31, 2005, 10:01:28 AM »

Does anyone what the minimum for passing the breatherlizer for driving at the different tracks is?
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TC
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« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2005, 10:19:15 AM »

Does anyone what the minimum for passing the breatherlizer for driving at the different tracks is?
Easy, don't drink at dinner before racing.  In fact, don't drink on race day until after the card is over.  I can't figure out how this rule gets violated time and time again.  If alcohol is too commonplace in your pre-race life, seek help -CASE CLOSED.  The tracks are all too happy to assist you.  If you were to add in all the guys who show up, find out they are being sampled, than flee the premises and call in sick, this might alarm the public.  If your nerves can take the competition without a swig or two, I suggest 4 Aleve tablets 20 minutes before Race 1.  Save your consumption for Mama Lou's, Main Street, or Club 390 after your WORK is over.  You wouldn't want the guy who built your car to be impaired when he put your car together, missing a safety check, would you ?  Wisen up and save the cold ones for relaxation therapy after.  The public thanks you, your fellow competitors thank you, track management thanks you, and I thank you.  TC
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County Fair Racing
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« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2005, 10:30:54 AM »

A driver got sat down at Prairie Meadows for blowing a .03 and he told his owner that every track in the counrty is a .05.  I was wondering if this was true.
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« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2005, 10:46:18 AM »

Call the racing office at May or Bal and ask them the rule.  Why are people risking getting sat down by drinking before the races ?  TC
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« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2005, 01:18:35 PM »

Hey DN, remember the time at SPK5/8 when Brooksy " the guitar man" came in blind drunk and blew a moulthful of water in the machine and shorted it out!!!
"Ish" came running out of that little office like a "worling dervish" when those sparks were flying!!!
All Donny did that night was put a new life time mark on Phase out for Harold Brown and the donner packing Co.!!!

Ah the good ol' days!!!!
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County Fair Racing
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« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2005, 01:22:03 PM »

When I was at the pari mutual race meet at the Missouri State Fair, a group of drivers would blow early and go back to their campers and have a few.  When the Paddock judge caught win to it he had then start blowing twice.  Yeah, like you say the good old days.
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« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2005, 01:27:21 PM »

It used to be a common practice. the drivers would blow in the machine about 7pm then if they were in like the 1st or 2nd then didny have one in til the 7th or 8th they could be seen at the first bar on the left when entering the grandstand at SPK5/8 !!!!!

The best DUI driver of all time "Slammin" Stanley Banks!!!!!
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njhorseman
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« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2005, 01:35:25 PM »

If you have a  drinking problem, my recommendation is to make NJ your base of operations. The geniuses in the racing commission discontinued the breathalizer test several years ago. Their rationale was that no one had blown a positive for a few years.

Apparently, the NJRC is unfamiliar with the concept of the test being a deterrant.
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« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2005, 01:43:13 PM »

Paul, they did away with it at alot of tracks!!! you see it is a well known fact that drivers seem to drive better and more aggressive while under the influence of alchol, cocaine, marijuana, pills and whatever they use!!!
Do you think Roger Hammer didnt have a couple of belts on Hambo day before coming to the track knowing all the reporters and camera men were waiting to bombard the questions of not putting a driver down?Huh
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njhorseman
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« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2005, 02:58:11 PM »

Paul, they did away with it at alot of tracks!!! you see it is a well known fact that drivers seem to drive better and more aggressive while under the influence of alchol, cocaine, marijuana, pills and whatever they use!!!
Do you think Roger Hammer didnt have a couple of belts on Hambo day before coming to the track knowing all the reporters and camera men were waiting to bombard the questions of not putting a driver down?Huh

SN:
They did away with the breathalizer in NJ, not drug testing. They still take random urine samples, and samples on a more regular basis from guys who have previously tested positive.
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« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2005, 03:08:46 PM »

Yeah, and they or someone who knows lets them know when they will be tested so they can drink that masking liquid or just suddenly get sick on the night they will be tested!!!! come on Paul get in the game man!!! a urine test is a joke!!! If they were really serious about keeping the drivers clean of drugs in their system they would do like the casino's in Vegas do give a Manditory fool proof and unbeatable HAIR TEST to all employees and ramdom tests throughout the year!!!

Why do you think BS fought the penn. comm. so hard when the test came up pos.?? because he has probally drank that stuff many times in NJ when he was tested and passed and knew that there was no way it didnt work this time!!!

come on Paul, I thought you were a steward your supposed to be hip to this stuff!!!
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2005, 03:12:18 PM »

Am I the only one that thinks there should be national testing/suspension standards?

Obviously, we should be testing tougher, in nearly everything.  On top of that -- could you imagine if a suspension meant that you HAD to sit EVERYWHERE?

Another idea I'm a big fan of: "horse suspensions" for positives.  Would really teach an owner to use a cheat trainer.

Best,
EW
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« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2005, 03:20:28 PM »

EW, heres the problem you would run into with that, If a trainer had a horse that was alittle off anyways and planned on giving the horse a little time off to begin with you would see the trainers "Loading" up the horse for one more race, getting the owner some purse money, cashing a nice ticket before a little R & R anyway!!!

you see what I mean???
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njhorseman
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« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2005, 03:23:16 PM »

Yeah, and they or someone who knows lets them know when they will be tested so they can drink that masking liquid or just suddenly get sick on the night they will be tested!!!! come on Paul get in the game man!!! a urine test is a joke!!! If they were really serious about keeping the drivers clean of drugs in their system they would do like the casino's in Vegas do give a Manditory fool proof and unbeatable HAIR TEST to all employees and ramdom tests throughout the year!!!

Why do you think BS fought the penn. comm. so hard when the test came up pos.?? because he has probally drank that stuff many times in NJ when he was tested and passed and knew that there was no way it didnt work this time!!!


come on Paul, I thought you were a steward your supposed to be hip to this stuff!!!


SN:
You can't do hair testing for the drivers unless you want to change the rules because drugs can show up in the hair months after they were used. Please understand that a private employer like a  casino has far greater latitude to set standards for its employees than the state does for licensees. I'm not saying it couldn't be done for drivers, but it will require a change in the racing laws and regulations,which can take months if not years.

As for Sears, he got off on a testing technicality. Both the original and confirming tests came up positive. However, the lab that did the confirming test did not use the proper testing protocol (procedure) and the commission knew that Sears would win hands-down in a court challenge because of that error, so they backed off. In fact, they also had to apologize (to make it sound like he didn't really have a positive) as part of the agreement negotiated by Sears' lawyer, Howard Taylor. Otherwise they were potentially on the wrong end of a big bucks defamation of character lawsuit.
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2005, 03:26:17 PM »

EW, heres the problem you would run into with that, If a trainer had a horse that was alittle off anyways and planned on giving the horse a little time off to begin with you would see the trainers "Loading" up the horse for one more race, getting the owner some purse money, cashing a nice ticket before a little R & R anyway!!!

you see what I mean???

There's always ways to manipulate the system, Scott.  This way, there's no beard BS though.

Best,
EW
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2005, 03:27:36 PM »

As for Sears, he got off on a testing technicality. Both the original and confirming tests came up positive. However, the lab that did the confirming test did not use the proper testing protocol (procedure) and the commission knew that Sears would win hands-down in a court challenge because of that error, so they backed off. In fact, they also had to apologize (to make it sound like he didn't really have a positive) as part of the agreement negotiated by Sears' lawyer, Howard Taylor. Otherwise they were potentially on the wrong end of a big bucks defamation of character lawsuit.

Such bullshit.

Best,
EW
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« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2005, 03:33:37 PM »

Thats the interveiw they gave, I'm telling it like it is !!!!!
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njhorseman
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« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2005, 03:35:30 PM »

Am I the only one that thinks there should be national testing/suspension standards?

Obviously, we should be testing tougher, in nearly everything.  On top of that -- could you imagine if a suspension meant that you HAD to sit EVERYWHERE?

Another idea I'm a big fan of: "horse suspensions" for positives.  Would really teach an owner to use a cheat trainer.

Best,
EW

EW;
I absolutely agree that there should be uniform testing standards. In fact, the industry is moving closer to that, as states are starting to adopt guidelines that were recommended by a special commission studying this issue.

In most cases you do have to sit out everywhere if you're suspended in one state. There are reciprocity agreements in place covering most states and circumstances. People that claim you can move from one place to another when suspended are usually confusing being ruled off the grounds of a racetrack, which is strictly an individual track's decision, with a state-issued suspension that is binding on every track in the state, as well as honored by the other states.

As  along-time owner, I disagreewith the "suspend the horse" idea. It would be the final nail in the coffin of harness racing. You'd never get anyone to buy a horse. Even an honest trainer can sometimes make a mistake (as can a vet ) and get a positive. Obviously, I'm not talking about the Andersons, Ruckers, Robinsons, and Gelrods of the world. Tougher rules have to be put in place to get those guys out of the business...not get their owners out of the business.
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2005, 03:38:37 PM »

EW;
I absolutely agree that there should be uniform testing standards. In fact, the industry is moving closer to that, as states are starting to adopt guidelines that were recommended by a special commission studying this issue.

In most cases you do have to sit out everywhere if you're suspended in one state. There are reciprocity agreements in place covering most states and circumstances. People that claim you can move from one place to another when suspended are usually confusing being ruled off the grounds of a racetrack, which is strictly an individual track's decision, with a state-issued suspension that is binding on every track in the state, as well as honored by the other states.

As  along-time owner, I disagreewith the "suspend the horse" idea. It would be the final nail in the coffin of harness racing. You'd never get anyone to buy a horse. Even an honest trainer can sometimes make a mistake (as can a vet ) and get a positive. Obviously, I'm not talking about the Andersons, Ruckers, Robinsons, and Gelrods of the world. Tougher rules have to be put in place to get those guys out of the business...not get their owners out of the business.

Well, Paul -- everything is on an increasing scale...

If a horse gets one positive, he gets 14 days?  Two = 30 days.  Three = 90 days.  Four = 180 days.

Something along those lines -- nothing too severe, but something that will force owners to change their business patterns if their trainer happens to be one of the multi-positive folks.

Best,
EW
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« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2005, 03:44:42 PM »

EW, I told you that wouldnt work. What happens if I "load" one up, get the cash, cash a nice ticket and you claim the horse that night?Huh you cant race him for 14 days??? you would have more guys claiming each others horses that ever  !!!
you see what I mean???
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2005, 03:49:32 PM »

EW, I told you that wouldnt work. What happens if I "load" one up, get the cash, cash a nice ticket and you claim the horse that night?Huh you cant race him for 14 days??? you would have more guys claiming each others horses that ever  !!!
you see what I mean???

Well now they have nothing, Scott.  So you can still load them up if you so wished.

Get caught doing it three times, and you've got a pet for three months.

Then again, I really think we should be sticking it to trainers with multiple positives, and the "uppers" don't care to do that -- so why would they want to do anything to clean up the game...

Best,
EW
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« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2005, 04:01:20 PM »

You just do it to different horses and keep turning over your stock!!! if they put that rule in effect the "Claiming" game would flourish!!!!!

The only way to clean up the game with positives would be to make Morphine and anything with a Morphine base illegal and allow everything else. That would level the playing field!!!
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2005, 04:04:02 PM »

You just do it to different horses and keep turning over your stock!!! if they put that rule in effect the "Claiming" game would flourish!!!!!

The only way to clean up the game with positives would be to make Morphine and anything with a Morphine base illegal and allow everything else. That would level the playing field!!!

There would still be the standard rules against the trainers in effect, Scott.  I'm not THAT stupid.

Best,
EW
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« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2005, 04:08:20 PM »

EW, you cant suspend the horses and the trainers!!! there would be no one left, Paul is right there would be no outside owners it would be all horseman owning their own. No owner would want to get involved in that.

did you find any 97 haw. races?Huh
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« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2005, 04:12:42 PM »

EW, you cant suspend the horses and the trainers!!! there would be no one left, Paul is right there would be no outside owners it would be all horseman owning their own. No owner would want to get involved in that.

did you find any 97 haw. races?Huh

Maybe I'm a "goof," but I'd be MORE likely to get involved if there were steps being made to clean up the sport.  There's so many positives now, I'm sure potential owners get scared away -- no?

Honestly, how many "mistake" positives are there?  Come on!  Do the crime, do the time.

Best,
EW
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« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2005, 04:28:25 PM »

EW, you wait til next summer if you want to get in the game. we'll take care of you. what we are going to do is GUARANTEE all owners their purse money!!! you see if your horse wins a purse we will GUARANTEE the owner his purse money you wont have to worry about the purse money being taken away because of no positives!!! because there wont be any, and if there was to be a slip up our owners wont suffer by having to give back the purse!!!
So get your "Claiming" cash ready EW, and start scouting some stock cause before you know it next summer will be here!!!!

I'll ask again, did you find any 97 haw. races
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« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2005, 04:39:43 PM »

EW, you wait til next summer if you want to get in the game. we'll take care of you. what we are going to do is GUARANTEE all owners their purse money!!! you see if your horse wins a purse we will GUARANTEE the owner his purse money you wont have to worry about the purse money being taken away because of no positives!!! because there wont be any, and if there was to be a slip up our owners wont suffer by having to give back the purse!!!
So get your "Claiming" cash ready EW, and start scouting some stock cause before you know it next summer will be here!!!!

I'll ask again, did you find any 97 haw. races

That's a pretty soild guarantee...something that all trainers should do, IMO.

Found a tape with some 97 Haw -- going to look through it later tonight.  Don't think I have too many, but I'll look.

Best,
EW
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« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2005, 04:41:53 PM »

Thats what we will do to stand behind our owners and beleive in what we do.
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« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2005, 05:04:40 PM »

Hey Nance!
Quit feeding the kid your fantasy land jibberish.
You couldn't take care of a horse on the Kiddieland merry go round.
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« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2005, 05:08:18 PM »

Right, wait til I get this tape sent over to EW to post of you on the Chi. racing report as a guest handicapper!!!!
the only fool who's in fantasy land is you my freind talking jibberish with no facts to back it up!!

JUST GO AWAY!!!!
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« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2005, 05:11:13 PM »

That's what you'd like?Huh??
When hell freezes over!!!!!!!!!!!
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njhorseman
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« Reply #31 on: October 31, 2005, 10:28:49 PM »

Maybe I'm a "goof," but I'd be MORE likely to get involved if there were steps being made to clean up the sport.  There's so many positives now, I'm sure potential owners get scared away -- no?

Honestly, how many "mistake" positives are there?  Come on!  Do the crime, do the time.

Best,
EW

EW:
While I agree that potential owners are scared away by the way the game is played today, supending horses for positives will just worsen that. I know it sounds contradictory, but believe me, the last thing an owner wants is to be held responsible for the trainer's actions. We have to learn to deal with the crooked trainers and put them out of the business...not punish everyone else because we can't get a handle on how to deal with the real criminals.

And, yes, "mistake" positives happen all the time, generally involving legal meds like bute . One major cause is the lack of uniformity in the rules. Look at what just happened to Erv Miller, and a few years ago to Homer Hochstetler, in Delaware. I had a horse DQ'd for Robaxin in PA because we screwed up and used the NY withdrawal time. I avoided a potential bute positive because I caught the vet giving an injection to the wrong horse. He treated the horse that was racing that night, rather than the one that was racing the next day. If I hadn't seen it, I would have raced the horse and if he had won or was specialed, we would have had a bute positive.Some of the positives occur because all horses do not metabolize meds at the same rate, and even if you follow the suggested withdrawal schedule, you still might come up positive.
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« Reply #32 on: October 31, 2005, 11:10:37 PM »

Maybe I'm a "goof," but I'd be MORE likely to get involved if there were steps being made to clean up the sport.  There's so many positives now, I'm sure potential owners get scared away -- no?

Honestly, how many "mistake" positives are there?  Come on!  Do the crime, do the time.

Best,
EW
Start with testing all drivers because many of them are loaded come race time.
example-Don Irvine sent home many times for Drunkeness
The Meadowlands has lost my respect for letting MANY DRIVERS THERE DO DRUGS
and are not doing anything about it.
When an horse owner is in a bar around the tracks after the races and walks in the bathroom only to see the guy that drove his horse earlier that day doing lines. What do they think about the game? Not much. They could catch a driver or trainer every week doing drugs if they wanted to. But they will not clean-up this game for some reason. ALL ANYONE GETS IS A WARNING. YES 100 OF THEM.
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« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2005, 11:25:12 PM »

EW:
While I agree that potential owners are scared away by the way the game is played today, supending horses for positives will just worsen that. I know it sounds contradictory, but believe me, the last thing an owner wants is to be held responsible for the trainer's actions. We have to learn to deal with the crooked trainers and put them out of the business...not punish everyone else because we can't get a handle on how to deal with the real criminals.

And, yes, "mistake" positives happen all the time, generally involving legal meds like bute . One major cause is the lack of uniformity in the rules. Look at what just happened to Erv Miller, and a few years ago to Homer Hochstetler, in Delaware. I had a horse DQ'd for Robaxin in PA because we screwed up and used the NY withdrawal time. I avoided a potential bute positive because I caught the vet giving an injection to the wrong horse. He treated the horse that was racing that night, rather than the one that was racing the next day. If I hadn't seen it, I would have raced the horse and if he had won or was specialed, we would have had a bute positive.Some of the positives occur because all horses do not metabolize meds at the same rate, and even if you follow the suggested withdrawal schedule, you still might come up positive.

I agree with your points...the problem is: what if an owner makes a conscious choice to work with a trainer that is positive happy?  With the "beard program," they can just keep right on working...some sort of penalty like this is the only way I can find.

It wouldn't penalize the whole stable -- just the horse that had the positive.

Is there another solution?  I would like to see MUCH MUCH tougher penalties, but the horsemen would balk.

1 positive: 30
2 positive: 90
3 positive: 180
4 positive: OUT.

Best,
EW
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