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Author Topic: 2008 dates  (Read 8657 times)
Moon
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« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2007, 08:48:34 AM »



Col. Roy addresses the IRB:



"Arrrr mateys ... take money away from Hawthorne and give it to us!"

Ye'll be dancin' the hempen jig if I ketch ye warin' a life preserver agin, Matey.

« Last Edit: September 19, 2007, 08:50:38 AM by Moon » Report to moderator   Logged
dogs up
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« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2007, 09:00:55 AM »

Perhaps integrity was the wrong word--I believe that the owners consider themselves capitalists. As I recall the rules or principles of that theory of economics, government should not get involved. Once it does, it loses it's purity.

Horse racing in most jurisdictions either loses money or stays open with subsidized government licensed gaming money, money not earned through horse racing wagering but on other forms of gaming.

AP is one of the few tracks today that turns an operational profit (I am talking about now- not last year- not ten years ago but now) without being subsidized by state approved gaming.

I guess I cannot blame you- Even the Stock Market has lost it's Capitalist foundation. After tjhe 1987 crash the market put in controls to forestall another crash. Who backed that up and approved it-- The Government under Reagan. I just get tired of hearing so many people *** about the poor but are willing to accept hand outs from the Government and or the public to keep their business afloat.

Regarding DD and "control of the board"--I have seen those comments by many of the blogers in the past 18 months. Do not pretentd they were not said.
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dogs up
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« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2007, 09:19:02 AM »

Thanks Terry. I can't see why Hawthorne can't charge RLD Industries a "lease" retroactive from when he took ownership for using their land...
Hey Beau-

Why doesn't he just call in the entire note and bankrupt them. if he was such as ass as you guys make him out to be, he would have. --What hospital wing exists because of the Carey families donations
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big wally
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« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2007, 09:27:26 AM »

Hey Beau-

Why doesn't he just call in the entire note and bankrupt them. if he was such as ass as you guys make him out to be, he would have.

I sure RLD will love Hawthorne charging him for land use... the bulldozers will be out the next day and the barns would be gone
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2007, 09:27:52 AM »

Hey Beau-

Why doesn't he just call in the entire note and bankrupt them. if he was such as ass as you guys make him out to be, he would have. --What hospital wing exists because of the Carey families donations

dogs,

You have me mixed up with ClockerTerry or someone else. I've NEVER said DD is an ***hole. I have some issues with Arlington just as I do with Hawthorne, but I've never really dished DD as a single person.
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mel4600
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« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2007, 09:55:23 AM »

Perhaps integrity was the wrong word--I believe that the owners consider themselves capitalists. As I recall the rules or principles of that theory of economics, government should not get involved. Once it does, it loses it's purity.

AP is one of the few tracks today that turns an operational profit (I am talking about now- not last year- not ten years ago but now) without being subsidized by state approved gaming.

I guess I cannot blame you- Even the Stock Market has lost it's Capitalist foundation. After tjhe 1987 crash the market put in controls to forestall another crash. Who backed that up and approved it-- The Government under Reagan. I just get tired of hearing so many people *** about the poor but are willing to accept hand outs from the Government and or the public to keep their business afloat.


Last I heard, this country was founded on capitalist theory. I guess the problem I am having with your comment is that you are inferring that horse owners *** about the poor and somehow accept hand outs from the Government. Are the race tracks owned by the Government? The problem with your analogy is that if racing could not survive, I would simply get out of the business and stick with my present job. You see my friend, the Government could not survive without capitalism providing it with revenue.

Being a horse owner defies rational capitalist theory since 90% lose money. If we do away with the industry who do you think it would hurt more, the owners, or the people who are employed within the industry, like yourself?

I never *** about the poor since I walked the same walk they did. As long as we were physically able to do any kind of work we did, even minimum wage jobs. In my day, families banded together for survival. There are plenty of jobs for those who want to work and should be helped by the Government as long as they make an effort. For those who can't, the Government needs to take care of them. I am only opposed to people making welfare a way of life which was never its intention.
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Ed
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« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2007, 10:13:42 AM »


Being a horse owner defies rational capitalist theory since 90% lose money. If we do away with the industry who do you think it would hurt more, the owners, or the people who are employed within the industry, like yourself?

I agree with you that the government should help those who truly need help and that don't make it a way of life. I'm willing to foot that bill by way of my taxes.

In the case of the racing industry, maybe the government should directly help those in need if the industry fails instead of subsidizing the horsemen. In effect you're inserting a middleman (the horsemen) between the government and those who need help. Maybe the displaced workers could be trained as dealers or other gaming industry positions. I could just picture some of the AP tellers as dealers!

Ed
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mel4600
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« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2007, 10:26:51 AM »

Have you always been a Horsemen Mel?

How did you get started?

Commander,

I come from a family of horse players who one day, on a whim, decided to get together and buy a race horse in 1980. We had a claimer named Okie Yank that we raced at Oaklawn (unsuccessfully), Balmoral and Fairmount. Since then we have always had 1-4 horses racing and peaked last year when we had 11 (thanks to Mountaineer). We currently have 8, 7 racing and 1 in foal (our first).
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2007, 10:28:39 AM »

Hey Beau-

Why doesn't he just call in the entire note and bankrupt them. if he was such as ass as you guys make him out to be, he would have. --What hospital wing exists because of the Carey families donations

How would he do that? He has a note from the NJC (the ones that owned the barns), not Hawthorne, ya scurvy dog.

And he did call in the entire note on the NJC. It's why they are out of business.
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mel4600
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« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2007, 10:34:47 AM »


In the case of the racing industry, maybe the government should directly help those in need if the industry fails instead of subsidizing the horsemen. In effect you're inserting a middleman (the horsemen) between the government and those who need help. Maybe the displaced workers could be trained as dealers or other gaming industry positions.

Ed,

The last I remember Mountaineer Gaming was not a Government Agency, it is a publicly traded company that is owned by stockholders. The pusres were lowered because the Government wanted a lager share of the revenue and took it. If you ever wanted to see a casino lose money, let the Government run it. Horseman are not subsidized, the industry is through other forms of gaming. If we don't win, no money.
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edwarren
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« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2007, 10:39:20 AM »

What do ye mean "subsidzed", matey and I'll share in yur cutter YA PUKE or it's the plank for ye.


The captain and the quartermaster shall each receive TWO SHARES, ya coward. The master and the boatsswain ONE AND ONEHALF SHARES and the PRIVATE GENTLEMEN OF FORTUNE ONE SHARE EACH, so sign here in blud or be marooned, ya freek *** sailors booty.

YO ho ho.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2007, 10:45:10 AM by edwarren » Report to moderator   Logged
Jim C
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« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2007, 11:46:37 AM »

OK I am in Hong Kong right now on business. Opening night at Happy Valley, attendance 63,000 people! Last year total handle in Hong Kong just under 8 BILLION US dollars (7.7)

Now back to Illinois reality. Terry you should talk to a few people before you call DD and ***hole in dealing with the barns at Hawthorne. DD has been trying to sell those barns to Hawthorne and they kept low balling him thinking he really couldn't do much with them, I guess forgetting the fact that they are PORTABLE barns. It will be interesting to see what way the arbitrator goes, but I do know they had been going back n forth on this issue for months and the IRB was not happy with Hawthorne and how they were negotiating.

regarding the dates, still seems silly not to let AP run until Oct 1. I still have no idea how Sanopoli got appointed as Chairman. I still remember when he was Ex`Dir for the IRB and we had a meeting with him and Gene Lamb at AP. We had lunch up in the Turf Club at some point there was a turf race and Sanopoli looks at Christine Janks and I and says...wow they race horses on the grass too huh? Keep in mind he had been in that job for a few years by then too! Gotta love the IRB!
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #37 on: September 19, 2007, 12:06:52 PM »

Now back to Illinois reality. Terry you should talk to a few people before you call DD and ***hole in dealing with the barns at Hawthorne. DD has been trying to sell those barns to Hawthorne and they kept low balling him thinking he really couldn't do much with them, I guess forgetting the fact that they are PORTABLE barns. It will be interesting to see what way the arbitrator goes, but I do know they had been going back n forth on this issue for months and the IRB was not happy with Hawthorne and how they were negotiating.

Always two sides to every story. The few people I talked with over the year seemed to feel it was DD asking too much. We'll see what the arbitrator decides.

Quote
regarding the dates, still seems silly not to let AP run until Oct 1.

Why is that? They obviously feel they won't have enough horses except to support four day weeks in September, just like May. IMHO Arlington should run only between Memorial Day and Labor Day, when horsemen and fans really want to be there. Hawthorne maybe two months on either side, and then both tracks just collect up dark day money (from their own facilities, no "host track") the rest of the year to build up purse accounts.

Arrrrrr!
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big wally
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« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2007, 12:17:01 PM »

Ed,

The last I remember Mountaineer Gaming was not a Government Agency, it is a publicly traded company that is owned by stockholders. The pusres were lowered because the Government wanted a lager share of the revenue and took it. If you ever wanted to see a casino lose money, let the Government run it. Horseman are not subsidized, the industry is through other forms of gaming. If we don't win, no money.

It is mandated by the State Government that the only way Mountaineer gets Casino Gambling is by hosting a Horse Race Meet.. not a direct Government Subsidy but still a subsidy as Government in Mountaineer's case is telling a private enterprises the only way you can have Business A is also by having Business B.... If pure Capitalism was involved there would be No Horse Racing in WV, so in this instance Government interference is good for you... Horsemen are clearly subsidized because somebody always wins...
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #39 on: September 19, 2007, 12:20:56 PM »

It is mandated by the State Government that the only way Mountaineer gets Casino Gambling is by hosting a Horse Race Meet.. not a direct Government Subsidy but still a subsidy as Government in Mountaineer's case is telling a private enterprises the only way you can have Business A is also by having Business B.... If pure Capitalism was involved there would be No Horse Racing in WV, so in this instance Government interference is good for you... Horsemen are clearly subsidized because somebody always wins...

In both WV and Pennsylvania the purse account is a mandated state tax that's then given back to the horsemen. Tax money subsidizing horsemen. Shiver me timbers!
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big wally
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« Reply #40 on: September 19, 2007, 12:46:00 PM »

In both WV and Pennsylvania the purse account is a mandated state tax that's then given back to the horsemen. Tax money subsidizing horsemen. Shiver me timbers!

So is it must also be mandated that they run a minimum number of races dates or races? If not, the horsemen would have nowhere to run.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #41 on: September 19, 2007, 12:50:42 PM »

So is it must also be mandated that they run a minimum number of races dates or races? If not, the horsemen would have nowhere to run.

Yes.

Blow me down!
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #42 on: September 19, 2007, 01:20:55 PM »

I had to review the 2007 and 2008 dates just one more time to really appreciate how dishonest the Colonel's complaining about "just three more days" really is.

In 2007, Hawthorne had 184 days total as host, including live days. Arlington had 181.
In 2008, Hawthorne will have 170, and Arlington 196.

Hawthorne lost 14 days, while Arlington gained 15 (leap year). That's a swing of two whole weeks in revenue from Hawthorne to Arlington. The Colonel's complaining about "just three more days" because Arlington chooses to run just four day weeks looks even worse.

Bad Colonel! Bad! It's that kind of dishonest spin that gives people such a negative view of track owners.

"Pirates of Arlington Heights"
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APCD Dan
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« Reply #43 on: September 19, 2007, 01:43:01 PM »

Let's deep six this pirate stuff all the way to Davey Jones Locker.  The true pirate ship sails from one of those canals down by Stickney this Friday, loaded with all those Hawthorne raiders.

We have nothing but yachts sailing down the Fox River up here in Arlington land with people all nicely tanned.

All the above is just a joke, so relax those fingers.  Have a good run, Hawthorne!  Horse Voice and ClockerTerry have been waiting all summer for your return.  Have fun, guys.  Now I start serving my sentence at Trackside on Saturday with cellmates Mottoman and John Frank.  Arrrgh!
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #44 on: September 19, 2007, 01:50:22 PM »

Now I start serving my sentence at Trackside on Saturday with cellmates Mottoman and John Frank.  Arrrgh!

Aye, and what's the over/under on how many times John Frank gets kicked out this winter?

Bad news for him and fellow chimneys come January 1! Out the door into the cold, cold deep six ye go, me hearties!



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mel4600
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« Reply #45 on: September 19, 2007, 02:19:22 PM »

It is mandated by the State Government that the only way Mountaineer gets Casino Gambling is by hosting a Horse Race Meet.. not a direct Government Subsidy but still a subsidy as Government in Mountaineer's case is telling a private enterprises the only way you can have Business A is also by having Business B.... If pure Capitalism was involved there would be No Horse Racing in WV, so in this instance Government interference is good for you... Horsemen are clearly subsidized because somebody always wins...


Mountaineer gets Casino Gambling because it is defined as an existing gaming facility which is a requirement for gaming in WV. The only way they approve the casino is because of the race track. The race track was there before the casino. On top of that the state is taking I believe 55% of the revenue. What kind of subsidy is that? Purse subsidy comes from the owner, Mountaineer Gaming, and not the state. You have your A&B's reversed. Government interference is never good in anything. If they would quit taxing the hell out of the gross revenues maybe no one would need casinos.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2007, 02:33:12 PM by mel4600 » Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #46 on: September 19, 2007, 02:35:33 PM »

Mountaineer gets Casino Gambling because it is defined as an existing gaming facility which is a requirement for gaming in WV. The only way they approve the casino is because of the race track. The race track was there before the casino. On top of that the state is taking I believe over 25% of the revenue. What kind of subsidy is that? Purse subsidy comes from the owner, Mountaineer Gaming, and not the state.

The State of West Virginia takes somewhere around 50% of slots drop. I've seen numbers as high as 55%. A portion of that is designated as purses, and given to horsemen. The fact that it is a State mandated tax is what allowed the WV government to reduce the purse percentage and keep the money for itself last year, to help fund some health or education function. Mountaineer has no say in the matter.

Pennylvania is organized the same, where the purse account is set up as a State tax. Florida is different, and the horsemen and dogmen have to rely on the largesse of the track owners.

Avast! Arrrrrr!
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big wally
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« Reply #47 on: September 19, 2007, 03:33:32 PM »

Mountaineer gets Casino Gambling because it is defined as an existing gaming facility which is a requirement for gaming in WV. The only way they approve the casino is because of the race track. The race track was there before the casino. On top of that the state is taking I believe 55% of the revenue. What kind of subsidy is that? Purse subsidy comes from the owner, Mountaineer Gaming, and not the state. You have your A&B's reversed. Government interference is never good in anything. If they would quit taxing the hell out of the gross revenues maybe no one would need casinos.

Do not want to debate this issue but it economic language what is happening in West Virginia is an indirect subsidy... As CT states the Government mandates the payment from the Owner to the Horsemen... regardless the amount it is subsidy... I am sorry to say if you personally received any purse monies from Mountaineer you received a subsidy and benefited from Government Interference in the Free market place
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mel4600
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« Reply #48 on: September 19, 2007, 04:27:10 PM »

Do not want to debate this issue but it economic language what is happening in West Virginia is an indirect subsidy... As CT states the Government mandates the payment from the Owner to the Horsemen... regardless the amount it is subsidy... I am sorry to say if you personally received any purse monies from Mountaineer you received a subsidy and benefited from Government Interference in the Free market place

Yeah, Government interference to the tune of a 55% rake.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #49 on: September 19, 2007, 04:38:33 PM »

Yeah, Government interference to the tune of a 55% rake.

That's the price of a government protected monopoly on a lucrative business. Arrrrr!

Say Mel, you ever take advantage of that greatest of government subsidies, mortgage interest deduction from your taxes?
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