Chicago Barn to Wire
Home | News | Bloggers | Forums | Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Contact Us | Search


November 26, 2014, 12:38:22 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you don't remember your password, email me.

New  registration procedures -- Some ISPs have been bouncing the verification emails.  Please email me to be activated or if you have any problems.  Click Contact Us above.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Today's Daily Debate Question for Tuesday, January 10th  (Read 2503 times)
John Doe
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1123




Ignore
« on: January 10, 2006, 09:24:15 AM »

Because of all of the negativity on the forum, I thought that maybe we can use this forum as a way to possibly make the sport better in Illinois by having a daily debate. We can discuss everything from the horsemen, to management, to the fans, and even controversial issues as well.

     I hope that everyone will participate by posting his or her thoughts, views, and opinions. Let's try something along these lines to see if we can point harness racing back in a positive direction. Everyone's thoughts and ideas are welcome.

      Every morning I will add a new question for debate. Let's have some fun on the forum and hear the different opinions and ideas that are floating around out there. Good luck and enjoy everyone.


Today's debate question:


          Should the I.R.B. force tracks owners that apply for racing days host both, Harness and Thoroughbred meets at their track?


Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras
(A UNLV runnin Rebel for life)
Report to moderator   Logged

AND NOW, HERE ARE YOUR UNLV 1990 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS:
                       GREG ANTHONY
                       ANDERSON HUNT
                       MOSES SCURRY
                       STACEY AUGMON
                       LARRY JOHNSON
THE BEST COACH EVER, JERRY "TARK" TARKANIAN
THIS IS HEAVEN
off stride
Guest

« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2006, 09:41:03 AM »

          probabaly not.. i would think that the t-bred would get a little bit dizzy going 10 panels at maywood
            having a short harness meet at arlington would be  interesting .. kind of like colonial with a 1 turn mile.. and trotters under saddle and turf racing and would draw a new breed (pun intended) of fan while allowing several died in the wool t- bred corpses to roll over in their graves
             having watched ..  t-breds at hazel on a 5/8ths oval ..no i dont think it would be feasible .. balmoral would love it .. arlington would not go for it..
Report to moderator   Logged
burton
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 14711




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2006, 09:43:08 AM »

Joe,

Good question.
I say no.
Let the owners at least initially request the date dates that they want for their individual businesses.
Let the IRB get their grubby mitts on the situation after that.
Report to moderator   Logged
ComputerGeek
Newbie
*
Posts: 47




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2006, 09:43:48 AM »

I don't believe one should be forced to race anything, but it would be nice if the IRB could get harness racing in the NW Burbs.  I remember the Arlington meet years ago.  It wasn't all that bad.
Report to moderator   Logged
Michigan Dale
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 675




Ignore
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2006, 09:46:35 AM »

I cannot fathom forcing a track to offer a particular kind of racing that they may not want to offer.    Some tracks are strictly geared to one type of racing - i.e., a 1/2 miler is not meant to present thorobred racing.   I think its an independent business decision as to what kind of racing a track wants to present and we don't need 'Big Brother' making the decisions.
Report to moderator   Logged
potrasalve
Full Member
***
Posts: 123




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2006, 09:49:34 AM »

I believe Balmoral can race one turn miles when they held thoroughbred meets . Similar to Belmont park. It would be nice to see that return to Balmoral.
Report to moderator   Logged
FIRST UP
Full Member
***
Posts: 146




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2006, 09:52:40 AM »

The Johnstons would not allow thoroughbreds on their tracks, because they might have to pay real purse money then.
Report to moderator   Logged
Careyscardshark
Guest

« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2006, 09:55:32 AM »

I really don't think it would be a realistic request, and I think the track owners should be able to make that decision on their own.  It would probably make it a more succesful track to run both, like Hawthorne does, but it's not realistic at a track like Maywood.
Report to moderator   Logged
mgriffin
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 516




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2006, 10:40:43 AM »

I say No as well.
Let them chose whatever direction they want to go in.

MG
Report to moderator   Logged
TC
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4183




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2006, 11:42:45 AM »

Joe, there should be a venue change just like in the old days.  Racing at the same venue all year long turns the fans off IMO.  Thirty-seven of three hundred sixty-plus dates does not make for proper venue change IMO.  Maywood would have to close because no one in their right mind would race t-breds on a 1/2 mile (Yavapai, I know).  Harness racing is non-existant north of North Ave. in the metrpolitan area.  This needs to be addressed.  I'd love to see Tonto and Geneva Lakse work out a racino deal with harness interests, but that is a far poke from the city as well.  How much attention would a Meadowlands type place east of 355/53 and just south of 90 draw.  Pro sports team like the Cubs, plus harness racing and t-breds too.  Tricky Dick would scream bloody murder, but this is America.  I'm sure Thrall Mfg. crushed the rivals a time or two in an underhanded way.  What goes around, comes around.  JMO.  TC
Report to moderator   Logged
John Doe
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1123




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2006, 11:48:09 AM »

     My thoughts are this. I feel that since both, harness and thoroughbred racing are on a decline why not offer a change of venue at the different tracks throughout the state? It would be nice for north-siders to have a harness meet at Arlington while south-siders could enjoy thoroughbred racing close to home at Balmoral. We did it like that before and were quite successful in doing so.

     When racing becomes as one-dimensional as it is today, it becomes less entertaining and more predictable, in my opinion. Whatever happened to horses performing differently at different tracks at different times of the year? We have lost all of our appeal.

     Do you guys notice how some horses race better over the Hawthorne surface and quite differently at Balmoral/Maywood. Personally, I miss the change of scenery and reliability of different horses for different courses, figuratively speaking. Change can be a good thing, in my opinion. I get tired of the same old ritual day in, day out. We need a change as well as the Thoroughbreds. Just my opinion and keep your thoughts coming in.

Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras
(A UNLV Runnin Rebel For Life)
Report to moderator   Logged

AND NOW, HERE ARE YOUR UNLV 1990 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS:
                       GREG ANTHONY
                       ANDERSON HUNT
                       MOSES SCURRY
                       STACEY AUGMON
                       LARRY JOHNSON
THE BEST COACH EVER, JERRY "TARK" TARKANIAN
THIS IS HEAVEN
TC
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4183




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2006, 11:51:13 AM »

Re-open Kahokia and QCD and Chicago Downs.  Grin  TC
Report to moderator   Logged
Dan Nance
Guest

« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2006, 12:02:59 PM »

     My thoughts are this. I feel that since both, harness and thoroughbred racing are on a decline why not offer a change of venue at the different tracks throughout the state? It would be nice for north-siders to have a harness meet at Arlington while south-siders could enjoy thoroughbred racing close to home at Balmoral. We did it like that before and were quite successful in doing so.

     When racing becomes as one-dimensional as it is today, it becomes less entertaining and more predictable, in my opinion. Whatever happened to horses performing differently at different tracks at different times of the year? We have lost all of our appeal.

     Do you guys notice how some horses race better over the Hawthorne surface and quite differently at Balmoral/Maywood. Personally, I miss the change of scenery and reliability of different horses for different courses, figuratively speaking. Change can be a good thing, in my opinion. I get tired of the same old ritual day in, day out. We need a change as well as the Thoroughbreds. Just my opinion and keep your thoughts coming in.

Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras
(A UNLV Runnin Rebel For Life)


Joe
        I disagree, change is nice but the Big M. races from the end of November until August 15th and nobody gets tired of the racing there. One reason is becuase there are always different horses shipping in from other tracks. Also, the race secretary doesn't have the same old races written 12 months a year.

        If Sportsman's Park were rebuilt in the city were racing should be run I don't think anyone would mind racing there 12 months a year. That will never happen because Sportsman's Park with all it's glory is gone forever and all we're left with is a dump like Balmoral out in the boondocks and the half mile bullring racing at Maywood. Harness racing is a dieing game and nobody is going to invest in building a new racetrack for a sport that may be on it's way out in the next 10 years. 
Report to moderator   Logged
Richard Breth
Guest

« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2006, 12:17:38 PM »

My opinion is no. Race tracks are businesses not a charity they shouldnt have to run meets they dont want. Fairmount should not have to run harness if it does not want harness. Balmoral should not have to run tbreds if it does not want tbreds. Whats next every one has to apply for a quarter horse and Arabaians meets also?

On other hand if a track wants to run meet for a breed it doesnt run now it should get a fair hearing at IRB. If it has good business plan and horsemen support. Race dates should not be birth rights to few people. 
Report to moderator   Logged
Dan Nance
Guest

« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2006, 12:25:09 PM »

My opinion is no. Race tracks are businesses not a charity they shouldnt have to run meets they dont want. Fairmount should not have to run harness if it does not want harness. Balmoral should not have to run tbreds if it does not want tbreds. Whats next every one has to apply for a quarter horse and Arabaians meets also?

On other hand if a track wants to run meet for a breed it doesnt run now it should get a fair hearing at IRB. If it has good business plan and horsemen support. Race dates should not be birth rights to few people. 

Balmoral Park would die to have t-breds run at their track like they did in the early 90's. They applied for t-bred dates but didn't get them. The Johnston's know the money is in t-breds and not harness racing but they are stuck with only harness racing. They would gladly drop harness racing if they could get t-bred dates and don't think they wouldn't in a New York minute.
Report to moderator   Logged
Michigan Dale
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 675




Ignore
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2006, 12:35:07 PM »

Here's a wild thought - where possible, run both thorobreds and harness with a race going off much more frequently than is presently the case.   A track within a track featuring the different racing surfaces.  One for harness the other for thorobreds.   Something for everybody, more 'action' taking place.  Shoot, Arlington could run some full card Turf Races for the t-breds and put the trotters and pacers on the main course.....just food for thought, something different.
Report to moderator   Logged
IL#1 Race Fan
Newbie
*
Posts: 20




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2006, 12:54:03 PM »

You're right! The Johnstons would love to have thoroughbred racing, however:

1) The ITHA would NEVER support it, knowing what scoundrels the Johnstons are.
2) Thoroughbred fans would hate making that drive to the boonies.
3) It would kill the thoroughbred industry, just like it's killing the harness industry.
4) The ITHA would NEVER let their horses be stabled in that hell-hole fire-trap of a barn area.
Report to moderator   Logged
Chitown Stan
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 260




Ignore
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2006, 12:59:26 PM »

Wasn't thoroughbreds the reason Balmoral built the mile track in the first place? I would like to see something like this.

Thoroughbreds

Balmoral     January - May
Arlington    May - September
Hawthorne September- January

Harness

Maywood       January - May
Hawthorne    May - September
Balmoral         September - January

P.S Don't the Johnstons request Thoroughbred dates every year and get turned down every year?
Report to moderator   Logged
TC
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4183




Ignore
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2006, 01:01:06 PM »

Has anybody been on the backside to poke around since the last poor inspection ?  Those "firetraps" as you say are still bad huh ?  The horsemen deserve better.  TC
Report to moderator   Logged
Dan Nance
Guest

« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2006, 01:10:18 PM »

Here's a wild thought - where possible, run both thorobreds and harness with a race going off much more frequently than is presently the case.   A track within a track featuring the different racing surfaces.  One for harness the other for thorobreds.   Something for everybody, more 'action' taking place.  Shoot, Arlington could run some full card Turf Races for the t-breds and put the trotters and pacers on the main course.....just food for thought, something different.

I brought up that idea a long time ago on this forum.
Report to moderator   Logged
Richard Breth
Guest

« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2006, 01:11:52 PM »

Wasn't thoroughbreds the reason Balmoral built the mile track in the first place?

P.S Don't the Johnstons request Thoroughbred dates every year and get turned down every year?

TC will correct me if I am wrong. Balmoral was originaly built Lincoln Feilds or Linclon Downs and was a tbreds track?

They dont ask for tbreds dates every year. Last time may be few years ago when there was question if Sportsmans could run at Hawthorne. They put in spring dates request as alternative but withdrew it.
Report to moderator   Logged
Richard Breth
Guest

« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2006, 01:12:37 PM »

I brought up that idea a long time ago on this forum.

If it is a good idea why doesnt Woodbine do it. They have the tracks all set up.
Report to moderator   Logged
Dan Nance
Guest

« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2006, 01:22:25 PM »

If it is a good idea why doesnt Woodbine do it. They have the tracks all set up.

I don't know. Call Woodbine and ask them, then report back to us what they said.
Report to moderator   Logged
Dan Nance
Guest

« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2006, 01:28:10 PM »

The winters are nothing like they once were in Chicago so I can't see why the t-breds don't race now in Jan. & Feb. Global warming is here. They race in late Nov. and Dec. when it was colder then it is now in Chicago.

     It would be nice to see the t-breds race at Balmoral Park in Jan. & Feb. so they can get their ass off the backside of Hawthorne so the harness can have their winter dates back at Hawthorne in Jan. & Feb.   
Report to moderator   Logged
John Doe
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1123




Ignore
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2006, 01:33:49 PM »

 

     My theory for wanting a change in venues and having different tracks hosting the different breeds is a simple one. Presently in Illinois, Arlington has a stranglehold of the premier Thoroughbred dates while Balmoral/Maywood has the same death-grip on the Harness dates. This creates an unfair monopoly, in my opinion. Maybe it's me, but don't you guys get tired of racing at the same place all of the time? And how about the fans, should a die-hard fan that lives near Arlington Park be forced to have to drive all the way to Balmoral to see a live product? Of course he could attend an OTB but that does nothing for the business.

     The way the dates are allocated in Illinois is disturbing because it’s virtually the same one-trick-pony-show. I love variety and challenges. The way the current schedule is done, there is no way possible to attract new fans or betting interest. I live in Crete and certainly would never buy a Thoroughbred if I had to drive down to Arlington every time my horse was in to race. That is my point of this whole debate. The downward spiral harness racing has experienced in the last 5 years should tell all of us that something is drastically wrong. I know as Dan Nance pointed out that the Meadowlands races for 9 months straight over the same surface, mostly the same horses and trainer/drivers, BUT, look at where the Meadowlands is located. That is one of many reasons why they have become the premiere harness track and are so successful. Location, location, location, that is a major stepping stone of any successful business. Let's be honest, Balmoral and Maywood are not very easily accessible for city folks, especially Balmoral.

     Think about this; how many people that live in Chicago would actually say to themselves, "I feel like going to the track tonight, let me drive an hour to Crete." Those same people might have a change of heart if Hawthorne or Sportsman's Parks were running. We are never going to attract any new fans into the sport by racing at Balmoral unless they live way south of the city and somewhere close to the area. The expose is very limited at Balmoral, in my opinion. It is a sin that a city the size of Chicago does not have a harness track within close proximity. Just my opinion and keep your ideas coming in, we might just get this thing turned around after all.

Best Regards,
Joseph M .Dakuras
(A UNLV Runnin Rebel For Life)
Report to moderator   Logged

AND NOW, HERE ARE YOUR UNLV 1990 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS:
                       GREG ANTHONY
                       ANDERSON HUNT
                       MOSES SCURRY
                       STACEY AUGMON
                       LARRY JOHNSON
THE BEST COACH EVER, JERRY "TARK" TARKANIAN
THIS IS HEAVEN
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.107 seconds with 16 queries.

Home
Upcoming events
Breeders' Cup
Horse slaughter in IL
Racing TV schedule
News Updates
Legislation

Galloping Out

Previous stories

Arlington
Balmoral
Hawthorne
Maywood
Chicago Sun-Times
Chicago Tribune
Blood-Horse
Daily Racing Form
Thoroughbred Times
Harness Link
Illinois Racing Board

 

2014

Breeders' Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2013

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2012

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

More ebay items

 

Home | News Updates | Bloggers | Forums | Search
Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Advertising | Contact Us

Copyright © 2000-2014 Chicago Barn to Wire. All rights reserved.
Privacy policy