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Author Topic: Today's Daily Debate Question for January 9th  (Read 4595 times)
John Doe
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« on: January 09, 2006, 11:24:12 AM »

     Because of all of the negativity on the forum, I thought that maybe we can use this forum as a way to possibly make the sport better in Illinois by having a daily debate. We can discuss everything from the horsemen, to management, to the fans, and even controversial issues as well.

     I hope that everyone will participate by posting his or her thoughts, views, and opinions. Let's try something along these lines to see if we can point harness racing back in a positive direction. Everyone's thoughts and ideas are welcome.

      Every morning I will add a new question for debate. Let's have some fun on the forum and hear the different opinions and ideas that are floating around out there. Good luck and enjoy everyone.


Today's debate question:

             Should children be allowed at the racetrack?


Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras
(A UNLV Runnin Rebel For Life)
« Last Edit: January 09, 2006, 11:47:01 AM by JDakuras » Report to moderator   Logged

AND NOW, HERE ARE YOUR UNLV 1990 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS:
                       GREG ANTHONY
                       ANDERSON HUNT
                       MOSES SCURRY
                       STACEY AUGMON
                       LARRY JOHNSON
THE BEST COACH EVER, JERRY "TARK" TARKANIAN
THIS IS HEAVEN
burton
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« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2006, 11:30:16 AM »

Joe,

Great idea!
Great question!

My opinion is of course they should be allowed.
They are the fans of tomorrow.
God knows we need those.
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ComputerGeek
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« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2006, 11:33:56 AM »

I have two of my own and I started when I was 9, so I too agree they should attend, BUT, keep them under control.  How many times do I see kids running around distrubing other patrons?  Way too many.  Teach 'em manners!!!
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John Doe
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« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2006, 11:43:19 AM »

     I'll start out by saying that I believe the racetrack is really not a place for children because of the gambling part of it. In Las Vegas, children are allowed to walk into a Casino if they are with an adult only to pass thru to get to a non-gaming area like a bowling alley, restaurant, or movie theatre. The Casinos will not allow children to stand around in any gaming area and watch people gamble. They must keep walking.

     One of the biggest sell to parents wanting to visit Vegas is the casinos offer of childcare. Most every Las Vegas casino offers very affordable childcare so mommy and daddy can go do their thing without the worries of the little one. If the racetrack could offer something along these lines, I believe children should be allowed to come to the racetrack.  

     The answer is not to create an arcade and leave children unattended and unsupervised as it is done so often today. This is very troubling and dangerous, in my opinion. I know we need new fans and should expose children to harness racing at an early age, but the tough part is having them see the ugly side and gambling element that accompanies it. Under the current circumstances, I believe that the racetrack is no place for children. Other opinions please.

Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras
(A UNLV Runnin Rebel For Life)  
« Last Edit: January 09, 2006, 11:45:08 AM by JDakuras » Report to moderator   Logged

AND NOW, HERE ARE YOUR UNLV 1990 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS:
                       GREG ANTHONY
                       ANDERSON HUNT
                       MOSES SCURRY
                       STACEY AUGMON
                       LARRY JOHNSON
THE BEST COACH EVER, JERRY "TARK" TARKANIAN
THIS IS HEAVEN
SUPERMAN
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« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2006, 11:53:06 AM »

Keep them at home with the babysitter. its a pain in the ass when you are trying to study the racing ofrm or program and have kids running around screaming and yelling. It reminds me of when Scott Erlick was the announcer with all of the noise and yelling. Kids dont belong there so have some consideration for people trying to make money and leave em at home. Sad Sad Sad
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john
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« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2006, 11:59:41 AM »

hell ya. they can. Kids cultivate the next generation of horseplayers. Or why dont we go johnny johnstons way, wait for there welfare checks and have them gamble it away. Lets market the poor people and not people who are looking for a family event where mommy, daddy, and the kids could go. Why dont tHey have kid friendly areas and areas where no kids allowed. Have a little horse ride.
Heres why I'm the stupidest guy in the world because in less than a month johnny will steal this idea and do it. Watch this. Last time I talked to him I talked about poker to him and he did poker.
For a person who hangs around in high society why is he considered by others to be such low society.
Of course hes reading this email. he can call me at 773.616.3366. I'll answer and give him more ideas to steal.
By the way kids dont get addicted to gamble they learn not to bet because they watch there dad for years lose money !!!!!!!!!! ITS A GREAT EDUCATION FOR CHILDREN !!!!!!
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ComputerGeek
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« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2006, 12:01:39 PM »

But as in my case, I was 9 and was handicapping.  I learned how to read a program and enjoyed watching Song Cycle every week.

So how is my son/daughter ever going to learn?  Maybe they're better off.  Undecided
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John Doe
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« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2006, 12:32:39 PM »


     I too was exposed to handicapping and wagering on harness racing at the age of 7. I am not so sure that was a very good idea. My father loved the racetrack while my mother despised it. Dad would sneak my 3 brothers and I out to Washington Park and the rest became history. Although I have some great memories of my father and I at the races, another side of me says I wish he never took me there.


     As a young child, I was exposed to many disturbing sights at the track from violence in the grandstand of pick pocketing, to illegal card playing in the parking lot, to 5 cent beer night brawls. I will agree that I grew up in a different time and era (please don't remind me), I still think that because of our ever changing violent society, children should probably not be allowed at the track.

     When I think about it constructively, in a gambling environment where people are wagering their money, emotions can sometimes take over. With that thought in mind, inappropriate language, yelling and screaming, violent fits of rage, along with disturbing behavioral patterns, all take place at the racetrack today.  I do not have any children, but if I did, there is no way I would expose them to this. To put it bluntly, I don't think too many young adults would have a complaint with their parents about never taking them to the racetrack when they were younger.


Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras
(A UNLV Runnin Rebel For Life)
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AND NOW, HERE ARE YOUR UNLV 1990 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS:
                       GREG ANTHONY
                       ANDERSON HUNT
                       MOSES SCURRY
                       STACEY AUGMON
                       LARRY JOHNSON
THE BEST COACH EVER, JERRY "TARK" TARKANIAN
THIS IS HEAVEN
Armonsol
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« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2006, 12:45:24 PM »

IMO, Children should be allowed at the track.  It is pretty unreal, I'm sure, for a youngster to watch horses running in person for the first time.  I was never taken to the track as a kid by my parents, that was not what they were interested in.  I went in my late teens and loved it.  As far as OTBs are concerned, that's another matter.  Kids should not be allowed.
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Michigan Dale
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« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2006, 12:52:52 PM »

A good question, you posed, Joe.   Harness Racing is a sport that can be enjoyed by the whole family and there is nothing wrong, as I see it, with kids connecting to horses.   That being said, I agree that at times it can be a real pain in the rear-end if kids are not kept under a watchful eye of the parent.   If not for my dad introducing me to the sport as a young kid, I may not have come to appreciate it as I do today.  I used to look forward to visiting the track with dear old dad.  Not only for the racing aspect but for the father/son bonding that was great for us.   My dad DID keep me under wraps.....I had to stay with him except when he was in a betting line - he would not permit me near the windows and I was always directed to "stand over there" usually against some post or something where he could see me.   I rather like the idea of a kids area for those that don't want to be both babysitter and handicapper at the same time.   For me, as a kid, I loved being down by the rail, mostly by the finish line watching the action close-up.   I then took my kids and kept them very much under wraps.   My son and daughter are not die-hards like me or like their grandpa was but they can enjoy a day or night at the races just the same and have somewhat of an understanding as to what its all about.   When my son was in grade school he won a Young Authors contest in Illinois and his 'book' was a story about a hard knocking underrated harness horse that went on to win the 'big one.'   Guess where his inspiration and 'research' came from?   Hawthorne Race Course and Sportsman's Park!   His entry was titled The Little Champ.
Northville, Michigan has a city ordinance forbidding children under the age of 12 from attending the races, period.   I personally hate that rule and believe parents should make the decision themselves as to what's best for their kids and not have some governmental body making the decision for them.   Bring on the kids, but do it right.
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Armonsol
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« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2006, 12:57:05 PM »


Northville, Michigan has a city ordinance forbidding children under the age of 12 from attending the races, period.   I personally hate that rule and believe parents should make the decision themselves as to what's best for their kids and not have some governmental body making the decision for them.   Bring on the kids, but do it right.
Friends of mine that live in the Detroit suburbs say that Northville is in a nice area and developers are licking their chops at getting ahold of that land.  Soon not only are the kids going to be banned, so is everyone when they start developing that land.
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abtruth
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« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2006, 01:15:09 PM »

Dakuras, you know i always like you but kids dont go to the track.it is for adults on the betting side and kids hear too many people swearing and threatrning drivers like that idiot at maywood who goes out and yells at drivers during warmups.plus how many child molesters are at the track like you know who. i dont want my kids near those creaps.the trakc is running adult business not kiddyland or day care.i ate after the races late saturday and some gipsys came in the place at 100am and had kids from 3 to 10 with them.auful if you ask me.truth.
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Michigan Dale
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« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2006, 01:24:02 PM »

Could well happen, Armonsol.....IF developers are willing to pay the price for prime property, and many of course would.   Somewhat reminds of the now defunct Santa Fe Speedway that was a landmark of short-track racing for many decades.   Some may recall it was located at 9100 S. Wolf Road.   The place was legendary and closed down for good in the mid-1990's and now its all upscale houses and condos.    The man that made it great and ran it for years, Howard Teidt is probably turning over in his grave.   The greed factor took over and family heirs sold the place to 'developers.'   Interestingly enough, for you trivia buffs, Santa Fe Park in the late 1800's early 1900's featured HARNESS RACING.  There is a website dedicated to Santa Fe that is really pretty good for anybody that may be interested.   It's www.santafespeedwaymemories.com

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Tannor
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« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2006, 03:08:48 PM »

Ok im a kid i guess so ya they should. Over at Indy Downs they have a play area for the kids. Its pretty nice.

Tannor
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They're at the gate!!!!
rchitown
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« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2006, 05:00:19 PM »

YESSSSSSSSSS,they are the future of this sport.Iwas about 8 my first time and still going 30+ years later ,donating money all the time.
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BIG ROD
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« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2006, 05:00:53 PM »

GOOD QUESTION. IF YOU HAVE KIDS THEN YOU WANT TO TAKE THEM TO THE TRACK AND IF YOU DONT THEN YOU PROBABLY FEEL THEY ARE A PAIN IN THE ASS BEING THERE. I ALWAYS TOOK MY KIDS TO THE TRACK SO I WOULD SAY ITS OKAY AS LONG AS YOU KEEP AN EYE ON THEM AND DONT LET IT GET OUT OF CONTROL. WHEN YOU CASH A NICE TICKET IT MAKES IT ALL THE MORE FUNNER WHEN LITTLE CHARLIE GETS TO HAVE AN EXTRA ICE CREAM CONE.
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Kenneth J. Chadwick
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« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2006, 05:03:55 PM »

Excellent question.

I think children should be excluded from the racetracks.

Parents leave their children run around.  Angry Sometimes I think I am at a school playground.  The children run, scream, jump around like animals. Angry

I had a few incidents with unruly children and had a heated discussion with the parents.  I finally contacted security who stated that children should behave.  I guess we are in 2006.  Parents negotiate with children concerning their behavior. Huh Huh  Unfortunately as we should have a no smoking section now we should and must have a no children section. Grin Grin Grin
 
Boy, you can see I am showing my age.

 Kenneth J. Chadwick
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bettor2belucky
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« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2006, 05:15:34 PM »

I don't think children should attend the races at night. I f their parents want to expose them to harness racing then let them go to the fairs . the night time enviorment IMO is not the place for children.

                 Bettor
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« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2006, 06:05:37 PM »

I love having  kids around while we are racing , some of my.,(OUR) best childhood memories are from going to the race track. esp. the fairs.   On the gambling end of it........I don't know ! ,Gambling's not my thing.
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icare
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« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2006, 06:23:12 PM »

I think kids should go I did My kids did BUT we did not get to run free like wild dogs in a pack, in KY they had a play ground for the kids that was nice and SP had a room for the wifes and kids this is a family sport
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« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2006, 06:28:34 PM »

Kids need proper sleep.  How can parents keep their kids at the track to 10:30PM? 

But Special Programs for Saturday Afternoons, absolutely.  Love the Hambo Day @ Meadowlands.  Love the Fairs.

And Balmoral has nice attractions for the kids.  But they would need to bring in additional entertainment for them.  We want the children to enjoy their experience, not dread it like those like fellas running up and down the apron at 11:00 PM.
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Heede
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« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2006, 07:02:21 PM »

I only take my daughter to the track when our horse was racing.  The state fair is a different story
I would let my daughter go on a special night.  She does not need to see the scum of Maywood
and Balmoral.  The QCD OTB has a section just for kids. Great question.

Heede
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potrasalve
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« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2006, 07:04:03 PM »

We all began amazingly tagging along with the old man. Joe's comments were strikingly similar to my  upbringing . ln being exposed to racing at an early age it drew all my attention. I wanted to be there instead of just hanging out with my friends. Unfortunately it did turn me into a gambler where if gambling was not involved in a social activity I would rather not be involved. My mother despised the track I remember her yelling at my father, you are ruining my son. But I do  feel gamblers are born it's a personality problem. Iv'e taken people to the track who could'nt care less if they ever went back and others who never stopped going back. I personally feel when I see kids out late at night at the track that is because dad has a problem. If you asked that same dad to take his kids to the show that night, odds are he wouldn't be going. As so happens in many marriages Mom just needs a night off from the family and she knows that's the one place Dad will drag the kids along. And she'll worry tomorrow on where she'll get the rent money. Sad but true for so many of us. But when I look back that was my life. Weekend nights at Washington Park as a child. Summer nights at Sportsmans as a teenager. And the years just rolled on. I took my kids also and One of them does have a bad gambling problem I carry that with me every time I see him struggling with it. Great Topic Joe. You should be applauded.
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pacewiththebest
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« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2006, 07:10:58 PM »

Great Question = Easy Answer....Of course kids should be allowed at the track!  IN fact they should be ENCOURAGED to come.  Harness racing needs to promote youth at the track--Kid's days/nights.  They should be doing anything they can to get kids up close and personal with horses and drivers==otherwise we are just shooting ourselves in the foot. 
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john
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« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2006, 07:28:37 PM »

joe dakuras. this is a great topic. no bashing and great memories for all. both sides make valid points.
Tell me this if you dont let the kids see the good, bad, and ugly, how do you cultivate the sport. At arlington you can enjoy the day and not make a bet. We can teach the kids discipline.
The other good point is that there are some racetracks i'm even scared of going to.
I wouldnt bring my kids. For the most part some tracks have so many things going on that without the kids it would be a tragedy.
Springfield, Churchill Downs, Keeneland, Del Mar, Meadowlands (especially Hambo day), and Mohawk Park are my selections for the kids.
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