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Author Topic: Today's Daily Debate Question for January 9th  (Read 4798 times)
John Doe
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« on: January 09, 2006, 10:24:12 AM »

     Because of all of the negativity on the forum, I thought that maybe we can use this forum as a way to possibly make the sport better in Illinois by having a daily debate. We can discuss everything from the horsemen, to management, to the fans, and even controversial issues as well.

     I hope that everyone will participate by posting his or her thoughts, views, and opinions. Let's try something along these lines to see if we can point harness racing back in a positive direction. Everyone's thoughts and ideas are welcome.

      Every morning I will add a new question for debate. Let's have some fun on the forum and hear the different opinions and ideas that are floating around out there. Good luck and enjoy everyone.


Today's debate question:

             Should children be allowed at the racetrack?


Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras
(A UNLV Runnin Rebel For Life)
« Last Edit: January 09, 2006, 10:47:01 AM by JDakuras » Report to moderator   Logged

AND NOW, HERE ARE YOUR UNLV 1990 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS:
                       GREG ANTHONY
                       ANDERSON HUNT
                       MOSES SCURRY
                       STACEY AUGMON
                       LARRY JOHNSON
THE BEST COACH EVER, JERRY "TARK" TARKANIAN
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burton
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« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2006, 10:30:16 AM »

Joe,

Great idea!
Great question!

My opinion is of course they should be allowed.
They are the fans of tomorrow.
God knows we need those.
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ComputerGeek
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« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2006, 10:33:56 AM »

I have two of my own and I started when I was 9, so I too agree they should attend, BUT, keep them under control.  How many times do I see kids running around distrubing other patrons?  Way too many.  Teach 'em manners!!!
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John Doe
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« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2006, 10:43:19 AM »

     I'll start out by saying that I believe the racetrack is really not a place for children because of the gambling part of it. In Las Vegas, children are allowed to walk into a Casino if they are with an adult only to pass thru to get to a non-gaming area like a bowling alley, restaurant, or movie theatre. The Casinos will not allow children to stand around in any gaming area and watch people gamble. They must keep walking.

     One of the biggest sell to parents wanting to visit Vegas is the casinos offer of childcare. Most every Las Vegas casino offers very affordable childcare so mommy and daddy can go do their thing without the worries of the little one. If the racetrack could offer something along these lines, I believe children should be allowed to come to the racetrack.  

     The answer is not to create an arcade and leave children unattended and unsupervised as it is done so often today. This is very troubling and dangerous, in my opinion. I know we need new fans and should expose children to harness racing at an early age, but the tough part is having them see the ugly side and gambling element that accompanies it. Under the current circumstances, I believe that the racetrack is no place for children. Other opinions please.

Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras
(A UNLV Runnin Rebel For Life)  
« Last Edit: January 09, 2006, 10:45:08 AM by JDakuras » Report to moderator   Logged

AND NOW, HERE ARE YOUR UNLV 1990 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS:
                       GREG ANTHONY
                       ANDERSON HUNT
                       MOSES SCURRY
                       STACEY AUGMON
                       LARRY JOHNSON
THE BEST COACH EVER, JERRY "TARK" TARKANIAN
THIS IS HEAVEN
SUPERMAN
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« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2006, 10:53:06 AM »

Keep them at home with the babysitter. its a pain in the ass when you are trying to study the racing ofrm or program and have kids running around screaming and yelling. It reminds me of when Scott Erlick was the announcer with all of the noise and yelling. Kids dont belong there so have some consideration for people trying to make money and leave em at home. Sad Sad Sad
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john
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« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2006, 10:59:41 AM »

hell ya. they can. Kids cultivate the next generation of horseplayers. Or why dont we go johnny johnstons way, wait for there welfare checks and have them gamble it away. Lets market the poor people and not people who are looking for a family event where mommy, daddy, and the kids could go. Why dont tHey have kid friendly areas and areas where no kids allowed. Have a little horse ride.
Heres why I'm the stupidest guy in the world because in less than a month johnny will steal this idea and do it. Watch this. Last time I talked to him I talked about poker to him and he did poker.
For a person who hangs around in high society why is he considered by others to be such low society.
Of course hes reading this email. he can call me at 773.616.3366. I'll answer and give him more ideas to steal.
By the way kids dont get addicted to gamble they learn not to bet because they watch there dad for years lose money !!!!!!!!!! ITS A GREAT EDUCATION FOR CHILDREN !!!!!!
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ComputerGeek
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« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2006, 11:01:39 AM »

But as in my case, I was 9 and was handicapping.  I learned how to read a program and enjoyed watching Song Cycle every week.

So how is my son/daughter ever going to learn?  Maybe they're better off.  Undecided
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John Doe
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« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2006, 11:32:39 AM »


     I too was exposed to handicapping and wagering on harness racing at the age of 7. I am not so sure that was a very good idea. My father loved the racetrack while my mother despised it. Dad would sneak my 3 brothers and I out to Washington Park and the rest became history. Although I have some great memories of my father and I at the races, another side of me says I wish he never took me there.


     As a young child, I was exposed to many disturbing sights at the track from violence in the grandstand of pick pocketing, to illegal card playing in the parking lot, to 5 cent beer night brawls. I will agree that I grew up in a different time and era (please don't remind me), I still think that because of our ever changing violent society, children should probably not be allowed at the track.

     When I think about it constructively, in a gambling environment where people are wagering their money, emotions can sometimes take over. With that thought in mind, inappropriate language, yelling and screaming, violent fits of rage, along with disturbing behavioral patterns, all take place at the racetrack today.  I do not have any children, but if I did, there is no way I would expose them to this. To put it bluntly, I don't think too many young adults would have a complaint with their parents about never taking them to the racetrack when they were younger.


Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras
(A UNLV Runnin Rebel For Life)
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AND NOW, HERE ARE YOUR UNLV 1990 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS:
                       GREG ANTHONY
                       ANDERSON HUNT
                       MOSES SCURRY
                       STACEY AUGMON
                       LARRY JOHNSON
THE BEST COACH EVER, JERRY "TARK" TARKANIAN
THIS IS HEAVEN
Armonsol
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« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2006, 11:45:24 AM »

IMO, Children should be allowed at the track.  It is pretty unreal, I'm sure, for a youngster to watch horses running in person for the first time.  I was never taken to the track as a kid by my parents, that was not what they were interested in.  I went in my late teens and loved it.  As far as OTBs are concerned, that's another matter.  Kids should not be allowed.
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Michigan Dale
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« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2006, 11:52:52 AM »

A good question, you posed, Joe.   Harness Racing is a sport that can be enjoyed by the whole family and there is nothing wrong, as I see it, with kids connecting to horses.   That being said, I agree that at times it can be a real pain in the rear-end if kids are not kept under a watchful eye of the parent.   If not for my dad introducing me to the sport as a young kid, I may not have come to appreciate it as I do today.  I used to look forward to visiting the track with dear old dad.  Not only for the racing aspect but for the father/son bonding that was great for us.   My dad DID keep me under wraps.....I had to stay with him except when he was in a betting line - he would not permit me near the windows and I was always directed to "stand over there" usually against some post or something where he could see me.   I rather like the idea of a kids area for those that don't want to be both babysitter and handicapper at the same time.   For me, as a kid, I loved being down by the rail, mostly by the finish line watching the action close-up.   I then took my kids and kept them very much under wraps.   My son and daughter are not die-hards like me or like their grandpa was but they can enjoy a day or night at the races just the same and have somewhat of an understanding as to what its all about.   When my son was in grade school he won a Young Authors contest in Illinois and his 'book' was a story about a hard knocking underrated harness horse that went on to win the 'big one.'   Guess where his inspiration and 'research' came from?   Hawthorne Race Course and Sportsman's Park!   His entry was titled The Little Champ.
Northville, Michigan has a city ordinance forbidding children under the age of 12 from attending the races, period.   I personally hate that rule and believe parents should make the decision themselves as to what's best for their kids and not have some governmental body making the decision for them.   Bring on the kids, but do it right.
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Armonsol
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« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2006, 11:57:05 AM »


Northville, Michigan has a city ordinance forbidding children under the age of 12 from attending the races, period.   I personally hate that rule and believe parents should make the decision themselves as to what's best for their kids and not have some governmental body making the decision for them.   Bring on the kids, but do it right.
Friends of mine that live in the Detroit suburbs say that Northville is in a nice area and developers are licking their chops at getting ahold of that land.  Soon not only are the kids going to be banned, so is everyone when they start developing that land.
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abtruth
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« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2006, 12:15:09 PM »

Dakuras, you know i always like you but kids dont go to the track.it is for adults on the betting side and kids hear too many people swearing and threatrning drivers like that idiot at maywood who goes out and yells at drivers during warmups.plus how many child molesters are at the track like you know who. i dont want my kids near those creaps.the trakc is running adult business not kiddyland or day care.i ate after the races late saturday and some gipsys came in the place at 100am and had kids from 3 to 10 with them.auful if you ask me.truth.
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Michigan Dale
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« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2006, 12:24:02 PM »

Could well happen, Armonsol.....IF developers are willing to pay the price for prime property, and many of course would.   Somewhat reminds of the now defunct Santa Fe Speedway that was a landmark of short-track racing for many decades.   Some may recall it was located at 9100 S. Wolf Road.   The place was legendary and closed down for good in the mid-1990's and now its all upscale houses and condos.    The man that made it great and ran it for years, Howard Teidt is probably turning over in his grave.   The greed factor took over and family heirs sold the place to 'developers.'   Interestingly enough, for you trivia buffs, Santa Fe Park in the late 1800's early 1900's featured HARNESS RACING.  There is a website dedicated to Santa Fe that is really pretty good for anybody that may be interested.   It's www.santafespeedwaymemories.com

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Tannor
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« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2006, 02:08:48 PM »

Ok im a kid i guess so ya they should. Over at Indy Downs they have a play area for the kids. Its pretty nice.

Tannor
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They're at the gate!!!!
rchitown
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« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2006, 04:00:19 PM »

YESSSSSSSSSS,they are the future of this sport.Iwas about 8 my first time and still going 30+ years later ,donating money all the time.
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BIG ROD
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« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2006, 04:00:53 PM »

GOOD QUESTION. IF YOU HAVE KIDS THEN YOU WANT TO TAKE THEM TO THE TRACK AND IF YOU DONT THEN YOU PROBABLY FEEL THEY ARE A PAIN IN THE ASS BEING THERE. I ALWAYS TOOK MY KIDS TO THE TRACK SO I WOULD SAY ITS OKAY AS LONG AS YOU KEEP AN EYE ON THEM AND DONT LET IT GET OUT OF CONTROL. WHEN YOU CASH A NICE TICKET IT MAKES IT ALL THE MORE FUNNER WHEN LITTLE CHARLIE GETS TO HAVE AN EXTRA ICE CREAM CONE.
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Kenneth J. Chadwick
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« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2006, 04:03:55 PM »

Excellent question.

I think children should be excluded from the racetracks.

Parents leave their children run around.  Angry Sometimes I think I am at a school playground.  The children run, scream, jump around like animals. Angry

I had a few incidents with unruly children and had a heated discussion with the parents.  I finally contacted security who stated that children should behave.  I guess we are in 2006.  Parents negotiate with children concerning their behavior. Huh Huh  Unfortunately as we should have a no smoking section now we should and must have a no children section. Grin Grin Grin
 
Boy, you can see I am showing my age.

 Kenneth J. Chadwick
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« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2006, 04:15:34 PM »

I don't think children should attend the races at night. I f their parents want to expose them to harness racing then let them go to the fairs . the night time enviorment IMO is not the place for children.

                 Bettor
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« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2006, 05:05:37 PM »

I love having  kids around while we are racing , some of my.,(OUR) best childhood memories are from going to the race track. esp. the fairs.   On the gambling end of it........I don't know ! ,Gambling's not my thing.
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« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2006, 05:23:12 PM »

I think kids should go I did My kids did BUT we did not get to run free like wild dogs in a pack, in KY they had a play ground for the kids that was nice and SP had a room for the wifes and kids this is a family sport
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« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2006, 05:28:34 PM »

Kids need proper sleep.  How can parents keep their kids at the track to 10:30PM? 

But Special Programs for Saturday Afternoons, absolutely.  Love the Hambo Day @ Meadowlands.  Love the Fairs.

And Balmoral has nice attractions for the kids.  But they would need to bring in additional entertainment for them.  We want the children to enjoy their experience, not dread it like those like fellas running up and down the apron at 11:00 PM.
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Heede
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« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2006, 06:02:21 PM »

I only take my daughter to the track when our horse was racing.  The state fair is a different story
I would let my daughter go on a special night.  She does not need to see the scum of Maywood
and Balmoral.  The QCD OTB has a section just for kids. Great question.

Heede
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« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2006, 06:04:03 PM »

We all began amazingly tagging along with the old man. Joe's comments were strikingly similar to my  upbringing . ln being exposed to racing at an early age it drew all my attention. I wanted to be there instead of just hanging out with my friends. Unfortunately it did turn me into a gambler where if gambling was not involved in a social activity I would rather not be involved. My mother despised the track I remember her yelling at my father, you are ruining my son. But I do  feel gamblers are born it's a personality problem. Iv'e taken people to the track who could'nt care less if they ever went back and others who never stopped going back. I personally feel when I see kids out late at night at the track that is because dad has a problem. If you asked that same dad to take his kids to the show that night, odds are he wouldn't be going. As so happens in many marriages Mom just needs a night off from the family and she knows that's the one place Dad will drag the kids along. And she'll worry tomorrow on where she'll get the rent money. Sad but true for so many of us. But when I look back that was my life. Weekend nights at Washington Park as a child. Summer nights at Sportsmans as a teenager. And the years just rolled on. I took my kids also and One of them does have a bad gambling problem I carry that with me every time I see him struggling with it. Great Topic Joe. You should be applauded.
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pacewiththebest
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« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2006, 06:10:58 PM »

Great Question = Easy Answer....Of course kids should be allowed at the track!  IN fact they should be ENCOURAGED to come.  Harness racing needs to promote youth at the track--Kid's days/nights.  They should be doing anything they can to get kids up close and personal with horses and drivers==otherwise we are just shooting ourselves in the foot. 
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john
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« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2006, 06:28:37 PM »

joe dakuras. this is a great topic. no bashing and great memories for all. both sides make valid points.
Tell me this if you dont let the kids see the good, bad, and ugly, how do you cultivate the sport. At arlington you can enjoy the day and not make a bet. We can teach the kids discipline.
The other good point is that there are some racetracks i'm even scared of going to.
I wouldnt bring my kids. For the most part some tracks have so many things going on that without the kids it would be a tragedy.
Springfield, Churchill Downs, Keeneland, Del Mar, Meadowlands (especially Hambo day), and Mohawk Park are my selections for the kids.
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Old Horse
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« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2006, 06:34:53 PM »

Don't know about today, but it used to be a family sport and our kids grew up in the business. They are all big fans today and has gone on to the grandkids.Louisville Downs had a nice playground for kids and volunteers to watch it every night. That would be the only way I would want it today also, but kids watching and learning the sport is how it continues.
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« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2006, 06:40:02 PM »

I think that some are also missing the point that bringing our kids (on a reasonalble
time schedule--i.e. weekends--not interfering with school schedules) may make some of
them want to invest in the harness racing industry in the future as OWNERS and not simply gamblers.  I'm certainly not encouraging my child to buy harness horses in the future, but I like to expose him to many different types of businesses, career oportunities and investments so that he is aware of everything out there when he becomes a teenager and adult.

I also try to expand his thinking to ownership rather than thinking on a smaller level.   For example, when we go to the races to watch a horse I own,
I discuss the purse money won and the expenses involved in keeping the horse.
I let him work out some math problems to see what it takes to make a profit.
(He's 10) and let him think maybe he could buy some horses in the future.  I
also point out to him several "gamblers" at the track who seem to be "regulars"
and talk about the dangers of betting on horses and losing a lot of money.

He enjoys coming to the races and I even talk to him about him maybe trying to buy
the racetrack in the future so he could be THE ULTIMATE OWNER.
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« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2006, 07:10:28 PM »

Old Horse, The play ground at Louisville got abused by parents.  They would dump there kids out at the track and then go bar hopping.  The races would be over and the play ground would still be full of kids.  I know this because I went in there as a little kid.  Louisville downs got sick of this and closed the grandstand to 16 and older.  Thus I was stuck setting on the bleachers at the end of the paddock, by myself unto mom and dad got all the horses out of the paddock for the night.  I much rather spent my summer night at sportsmen park with Paisley(Sp) Busse, and Banks to joke around with. 

Even as a little kid I knew when we went to Sportsmen we were racing a REAL good racehorse.  That made going to Chicago even better,  I don't miss Louisville, latona,etc.
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John Doe
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« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2006, 07:24:48 PM »



     After discussing this debate with my wife all day long, even her and I cannot agree on it. I feel children should not be allowed at the track and she feels completely the opposite!  Let me say that although I do not have any children, I do have two goddaughters that I love dearly and think the world of. With that thought in mind, I can't really see anything-positive happening as a result of me bringing them out to the racetrack for a night. I think about how I loved it with my father when I was a child, but that was a different time and era. I don’t think that I would be doing them much good socially, or educationally.

     Please help me to understand by bringing a child to the racetrack what you, as parents are trying to accomplish? If you are trying to teach your child the ropes of ownership, you certainly do not need to take them to the track to do that. I can't imagine any parent wanting their child to pursue a career in harness racing as a driver or trainer nowadays because of the lack of financial stability that goes with this business. This adds credence to my position of why children should not be allowed at the track.  I know that I sound a bit hypocritical because I was one of those 7-year old kids that ran rampant up and down the stairs at Sportsman's Park, betting and studying the program when I should have been studying the U.S. Constitution instead. Like I said before, I have mixed feelings about my dad taking me to the track because nothing positive has happened to me as a result of my father exposing me to the track at an early age.  

     My wife on the other hand takes an approach completely opposite of mine. She feels that kids should be allowed to be at the track to have fun and be a kid. When I asked her how, she came up with this idea. My wife was always one that thought it was a terrible idea for the drivers to give away whips to children ever since she seen one child whack another with a whip that a driver gave away, drawing blood. She feels that whips can be dangerous and should not be given away. She thought that the racetracks should have trading cards with every Illinois driver/trainers picture on them. Just like baseball/basketball/football trading cards. When a driver wins a race, all of the children who are at the track that day, should be given a 10 minute timeframe to go into the winners circle and meet the winning trainer and driver of the horse, and have them pass out their trading card for that year. This would be the only way of a child receiving that trading card so as the more popular guys win races, the child would already have that card. It would actually have children rooting for a driver or trainers horse because they don't have their trading card. It would become a challenge to try and collect each and every Illinois horsemen trading card because if that driver or trainer does not race/win very often, it becomes difficult to obtain their card. This would keep the children’s interest away from the gambling end of things and encourage friendships to trade cards amongst each other. They could actually develop friendships through their visits to the track. This is my wife’s idea that I think is a foolish one, but that is my opinion.

     I have great memories of going to the racetrack with my late father but I have to say after critically thinking about it, I wish he never took me there. I simply believe it hindered me from my studies and nothing positive came from me going to the races at age 7.  Thanks for all the replies and keep them coming. I will post another debate tomorrow morning from school at about 7:00 am.  

Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras
(A UNLV Runnin Rebel For Life)  
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AND NOW, HERE ARE YOUR UNLV 1990 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS:
                       GREG ANTHONY
                       ANDERSON HUNT
                       MOSES SCURRY
                       STACEY AUGMON
                       LARRY JOHNSON
THE BEST COACH EVER, JERRY "TARK" TARKANIAN
THIS IS HEAVEN
abtruth
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« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2006, 07:37:24 PM »

in todays society do you want strangers watching youre kids.are you nuts.my kids stay at home while i work.in summer i might let them come to the barn to help and keep a few at the farm.i dont want them too see maneacs cussin and telling drivers they shuld be raped.learn to be good parents and keep the kids safe at home.i keep no guns in my house so no accidents.the kids learn respect and i never talk about gamling at the races by them.louisville downs is in a harness history book.that was a diferent times.now the races have to many wackos who i dont want around my kids.whats next bringing them to mama lous or mane street to see fight like the guy who got stiches from a beer bottle last week.kids stay home.truth
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Zulu
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« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2006, 08:00:01 PM »

I think that some are also missing the point that bringing our kids (on a reasonalble
time schedule--i.e. weekends--not interfering with school schedules) may make some of
them want to invest in the harness racing industry in the future as OWNERS and not simply gamblers.  I'm certainly not encouraging my child to buy harness horses in the future, but I like to expose him to many different types of businesses, career oportunities and investments so that he is aware of everything out there when he becomes a teenager and adult.

I also try to expand his thinking to ownership rather than thinking on a smaller level.   For example, when we go to the races to watch a horse I own,
I discuss the purse money won and the expenses involved in keeping the horse.
I let him work out some math problems to see what it takes to make a profit.
(He's 10) and let him think maybe he could buy some horses in the future.  I
also point out to him several "gamblers" at the track who seem to be "regulars"
and talk about the dangers of betting on horses and losing a lot of money.

He enjoys coming to the races and I even talk to him about him maybe trying to buy
the racetrack in the future so he could be THE ULTIMATE OWNER.

Great post , couldn`t have said it better!
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pacewiththebest
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« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2006, 08:09:36 PM »

There are plenty of times to take your kids to the track.  And there are plenty of places throughout the grandstand (inside & out) to sit and keep your kids away from the scum around.  You can't keep your kids locked up in your house forever abtruth.

We all need to realize that kids are the future of this industry and with all th other forms of entertainment, we have an uphill battle.  By eliminating them from the track, we are slitting our own throat!  We also have to remember many of us can bring our kids and teach them about the business in case they want to get involved one day.  Others may bring them for the pure enjoyment of watching and betting on racing.  This industry needs FANS just as much as it does owners. 
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« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2006, 08:40:17 PM »

For what it's worth, I got a call from CA and the "original" Golden Boy thinks it's a smashing idea to bring the youngsters to the track.  He'll even sit in the bike with them between races and take photos of them on his camera phone.  Even Kazzy will watch them closely as you bet their private school tuition money - no problem at all.  Sheeesh.  TC
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« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2006, 08:44:15 PM »

Joe,
i do think that kids should go to the track, I was a track bum, I did not even know how to read a program did not care to I loved the horse side of it as Kelly. I could care less about cashing a ticket to this day.
   I dont think kids need to the stands everynight.
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« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2006, 09:00:45 PM »

 I was about 8-9 yrs. old when I was introduced to the backside at Washington Park. Today, I am in the business as was my dad and uncle's. I do gamble today, but only within my means and as I choose.  My dad brought me to the track often and I feel that I'm not lesser the person for it. I was the future then and am now a part of the sport.  I agree that gambling can be a problem, but what a better way to learn if properly tutored by a "responsible parent/adult". The old adage"the apple don't fall far from the tree", holds true within this debatable question.
  I believe the grandstand and outdoor area is a great place for children to view the sport of "Live Racing" though my opinion does not apply to simulcast betting.  Also, the clubhouse should only be open to adults whom  may or do not want children around and generally pay extra for that privelage. Eventually, all children grow up and make their own choices & decisions not always in tune with their parents. Like anything, communication, knowledge & knowing priorities are integral for any maturing process(s) in life!
  
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« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2006, 12:04:30 AM »

Bring your children to the track but keep them under control. We need the next generation to keep racing alive but a word of advice. When your young child points to a horse and says its going to win you better bet on it. When your young child wants to learn how to read the program, take him to an Exorcist.
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« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2006, 12:20:55 AM »

My father has owned horses and I've been going since I was in a stroller I was making my own bets at sportsmans when I was 10 with jimmy or carl in the $50.00 window(eventhough I was only betting $2) I had some great times at the track as a kid and I went every chance I could with my dad...which in the good old days when there was money to be made it was almost nightly....I have 3 kids under the age of 8 and they have all been to the track....My 4 year olds favorite movie is racing stripes and she makes me make the sound of a bell and say they're off as she runs through the house and says "look at me i'm a racehorse" and she always ends up in the winners circle.....My wife says that I have created a monster....lol
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I sure miss the good 'ol days!!
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« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2006, 12:39:17 AM »

the only horses kids should see
« Last Edit: January 10, 2006, 06:02:42 AM by off stride » Report to moderator   Logged
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« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2006, 12:45:08 AM »


or this one.....
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2006, 02:59:06 AM »

Joe

        Simple answer, NO kids don't belong around any form of gambling. The casino's do things right when don't allow kids wondering around where adults are gambling.

        They don't allow kids into the OTB's so why allow them in the track? They don't allow kids at the riverboats so why allow them at the track? There is nothing for kids to do at the track except run around the grandstand and apron bothering people who are trying to read the program. They pick up dirty filty pickets off the ground with millions of germs on then and then put their fingers in their mouths. They are bored at the track so they run around playing hide and go seek.

        Also, with the perverts they let in the track how can a parent trust their kid running off somewhere while they are making a bet. You never know you could have some guy calling himself " Interested Observer " hanging around observing little children and molesting them while the kids dad is making a bet.

        Joe, remember the kid the was murdered in the bathroom at the casino down in " Primm NV " while her dad was playing blackjack? Bottom line is kids don't belong at the track or any other place where adults gamble because they can only pick up bad habits nothing good.     
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fineline
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« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2006, 03:03:03 AM »

At Oakbrook they let them in the restaurant area.
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« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2006, 03:17:53 AM »

Joe

        Simple answer, NO kids don't belong around any form of gambling. The casino's do things right when don't allow kids wondering around where adults are gambling.

        They don't allow kids into the OTB's so why allow them in the track? They don't allow kids at the riverboats so why allow them at the track? There is nothing for kids to do at the track except run around the grandstand and apron bothering people who are trying to read the program. They pick up dirty filty pickets off the ground with millions of germs on then and then put their fingers in their mouths. They are bored at the track so they run around playing hide and go seek.

        Also, with the perverts they let in the track how can a parent trust their kid running off somewhere while they are making a bet. You never know you could have some guy calling himself " Interested Observer " hanging around observing little children and molesting them while the kids dad is making a bet.

        Joe, remember the kid the was murdered in the bathroom at the casino down in " Primm NV " while her dad was playing blackjack? Bottom line is kids don't belong at the track or any other place where adults gamble because they can only pick up bad habits nothing good.     


When I was still in Chicago until 1999 they didn't let kids in at all in Oakbrook.
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« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2006, 05:58:22 AM »

Dan PSYCHO GOOF Nance posted:

Quote
      Also, with the perverts they let in the track how can a parent trust their kid running off somewhere while they are making a bet. You never know you could have some guy calling himself " Interested Observer " hanging around observing little children and molesting them while the kids dad is making a bet.

I thought about responding with a comment about your 2 daughters, Dan... but I won't lower myself to the "Whale Shit" level of a sick *** like you.

Plus... it's not their fault that their father is a CLASSLESS PIECE OF SHIT.

Actually, I feel sorry for them... having had to grow up with a degenerate gambler like you as a "role model".

You truly are a SICK PSYCHO GOOF.
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« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2006, 06:25:01 AM »

if the kids first chance at the track is 18 and they could gamble then. Wouldnt it make sense to say the kids havent been educated about the pitfalls of gambling. on the day they could gamble (18th birthday) they are allowed to go into a gambling establishment thats full of lights, sounds of people winning, and etc. Shouldnt the kids be allowed to learn earlier the evils of gambling. My kid is 11 and can tell you every exacta box estimated payoff and knows all about first over trips. He is smarter than me about horses. One thing i can tell you is hes learned "if you cant lose dont play" A couple of years ago he would ask me for $2 to bet with. I gave it to him and we bet a couple of times. Then I told him we are going to use his money. Guess what its been 13 months and hes never asked me to bet again. At 18, if he started firing away money he doesnt have he could get in over his head. If he gets taken to the track for the first time at 18 by friends and doesnt understand gambling it could be awful
2 things, street smart and book smart. I'll take street smart over book smart.
secondly, I respect the minority who say kids shouldnt be allowed but there should be KID FRIENDLY SECTIONS and sections were there are NO KIDS ALLOWED  and each side gets its way. going to the track is not all about gambling, why dont the kids get to go face to face with a horse. why isnt there horse rides like off stride has responded. why arent there museums with interactive stuff for the kids in the kids only section.
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« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2006, 08:37:48 AM »

There is a difference in Casino Gambling and Racing.  Racing is a spectator sport.  In the Casino what can they watch?  The roll of a dice?  A card flip?  In horse racing there is action.  Something for the kids to gain interest in.  I’m not saying they should be there every night, but a weekend afternoon or evening is not harming them. 

JOE D.  I don’t want them to become owners, trainers or drivers, but I would mind them being interested from the sporting\gambling perspective. 

We as mothers and fathers are responsible for our children’s upbringing.  They are going to be exposed to rights and wrongs.  We need to teach them the difference.  DAN you can’t blame an irresponsible father on the Casino for that girls death.   The casino is no place for a child.  It is not a spectator sport!

I’d like to teach my kids you lose what you can afford.  It is entertainment.  If you have $10 are you going to blow it on a movie or a night at the track.  This is the message I want to convey to my children.

Also, if anyone is concerned about the patrons your children will be exposed to, then you’ve never attended a NASCAR event or a Hockey Game.  The language, the drunks, the fights.  The only difference is Joe Homeless isn’t hanging out there.  Arlington in the afternoon is better than those venues.

I maintain, a child UNDER CONTROL, sitting and enjoying the sport of racing is not a bad thing.




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« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2006, 08:48:18 AM »

Computer Geek  I could not agree more!!!  With one exception.... There should also be a place where one can go where there are NOT children allowed if they so desire to spend their time with only adults.  They have no smoking areas so why not have  no children areas.
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« Reply #46 on: January 10, 2006, 08:52:16 AM »


or this one.....

You have posted a picture of Hippity-Hop!

I have not seen this guy for years.  I had one of these as a child.  We raced them.  Thanks for the flashback!
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« Reply #47 on: January 10, 2006, 09:04:27 AM »

FASTTRACK....I would have no problem with that.  An under 18 room would be fine.
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« Reply #48 on: January 10, 2006, 09:05:27 AM »

You have posted a picture of Hippity-Hop!

.  I had one of these as a child.  We raced them.  Thanks for the flashback!
did you race clean .. or did you use ruckers go go juice?
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« Reply #49 on: January 10, 2006, 10:09:37 AM »

Kids should definately be allowed to be at the track.  If not, how are we going to get the new generation invloved with this sport.  I am 18, so yes I may be being a little biased here, but what about the teenagers who are in the 15-18 range who have enough logic to know what is right and wrong, and still aren't allowed to be able to attend a sport they love.  There definately wouldn't be a future.  I would hope the parents that bring the kids would have enough sense and manners to keep their kids under control and not disrupt the bettors trying to handicap and read the program.  Also, as a responsible parent you would think when dealing with the younger kids at the track, that you would not have them there in the late night hours, and maybe look into taking them to more fairs, and afternoon events.  I have attended the grand circut when it is at the Red Mile, and there is nothing like standing down near the wire watching the Kentucky Futurity with your dad.
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« Reply #50 on: January 10, 2006, 11:02:25 AM »

Dan PSYCHO GOOF Nance posted:

I thought about responding with a comment about your 2 daughters, Dan... but I won't lower myself to the "Whale Shit" level of a sick *** like you.

Plus... it's not their fault that their father is a CLASSLESS PIECE OF SHIT.

Actually, I feel sorry for them... having had to grow up with a degenerate gambler like you as a "role model".

You truly are a SICK PSYCHO GOOF.


What do you have to say about my daughters? They didn't hang out at the track nor were they allowed to roam the backside. The only time they were on the backside was when their mother brought them there to pet the horses and feed them carrots. As far as them coming to the track they only came on non-school nights if I had a horse in that I thought could win and if it did they got in the picture and then went home.

    Don't feel sorry for my daughters because they had a wonderful life growing up and their father wasn't a degenerate gambler. He was a hard working trainer who busted his ass everyday to make money for his owners and his family. So, blow it out your ass you CLASSLESS PIECE OF SHIT.
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« Reply #51 on: January 10, 2006, 05:40:37 PM »

did you race clean .. or did you use ruckers go go juice?

I would race on whatever I could get in ole Hippity-Hop.  It was generally administered by air pump, as a needle would pop him.

If I got a positive, I would just file an appeal.  Then, I would get me a TRO and continue to race as if nothing ever happened.  Since he was filled with air, it was very easy for me to claim Environmental Contamination.

I doubt the Gout medication would have done too much good on my steed.  As you can see in the picture, he doesn’t really have any high motion joints.
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off stride
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« Reply #52 on: May 25, 2006, 04:31:23 PM »

dont ya miss maywood right now?
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« Reply #53 on: May 25, 2006, 05:56:02 PM »

I agree with Cardshark. We need to keep young people involved with racing.  light bulb 
 
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« Reply #54 on: May 25, 2006, 10:05:56 PM »

     Because of all of the negativity on the forum, I thought that maybe we can use this forum as a way to possibly make the sport better in Illinois by having a daily debate. We can discuss everything from the horsemen, to management, to the fans, and even controversial issues as well.

     I hope that everyone will participate by posting his or her thoughts, views, and opinions. Let's try something along these lines to see if we can point harness racing back in a positive direction. Everyone's thoughts and ideas are welcome.

      Every morning I will add a new question for debate. Let's have some fun on the forum and hear the different opinions and ideas that are floating around out there. Good luck and enjoy everyone.


Today's debate question:

             Should children be allowed at the racetrack?


Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras
(A UNLV Runnin Rebel For Life)

           JOE ,     your a strange bird ! we argued about the future of racing and you wanted it abolished in illinois and the horsemen to get jobs in fast food ! which is it ! did you change your mind about the johnsons getting money ? because if things get better they surely will profit . now to answer the question . kids should be allowed as long as their parents supervise them and dont let them run around and get in the bettors way . now dont go ballistic just answer in a respectable way . you have me confused about your concerns in racing !                    RTP
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« Reply #55 on: May 25, 2006, 11:51:14 PM »

I will say I didn't read all 4 pages but, my question is what the meaning of bringing to the track is? Is it OK for a (divorced dad) to take their child to the track on dad's weekend with the kids? I would say not. But I do have to say, I started going to the track at age 12. In school the stuff they wrote on the chalkboard meant nothing to me. The way I learned my math skills was from going to the track, because if you didn't know what you had comming from a winning ticket the tellers could take advantage of you. ( this is old school tickets I'm talking about) I am not talking about my $2 bets I made, but the little larger tickets I made and cashed for my relative. Bottom line is, as bad is it sounds I credit my mathematical skills from going to the track, by placing and cashing tickets. It probably sounds ridiculous, But that's my story.
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« Reply #56 on: May 26, 2006, 12:01:36 AM »

Horse Racing is such a different sport from the rest. You want to create the gamblers of tomorrow by creating fans for today. The question should be, do you want fans or gamblers??? I think harness racing is too busy trying to lure fans....Instead of your dollar nights and cheap entertainment, how about lower takeouts, bigger purses to lure more competitive fields, and carryover bets with significant opportunitie to win???

I don't know, I have always been real receptive to trying to create fans. But the longer I have been in this business, the more I realize that fans don't bet. Bettors bet. Maybe thats what harness racing needs to start catering to.

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« Reply #57 on: May 26, 2006, 09:50:34 AM »

           JOE ,     your a strange bird ! we argued about the future of racing and you wanted it abolished in illinois and the horsemen to get jobs in fast food ! which is it ! did you change your mind about the johnsons getting money ? because if things get better they surely will profit . now to answer the question . kids should be allowed as long as their parents supervise them and dont let them run around and get in the bettors way . now dont go ballistic just answer in a respectable way . you have me confused about your concerns in racing !                    RTP



     
Phil:

     Your post is a clear display of what I have been saying all along...you do not critically read and understand what I post.  Or, maybe I don't make myself clear enough for you to understand, so it may partially be my fault.  Before you go postal, hold up for just a second. 

      Number one, you asked me to refrain from ever using your name or answering any of your posts.  I respected your wish, and now a week or so later, you ask me for a reply to something, what gives?

     Number two, now I know that you'll come back on here wanting to threaten me to a physical fight and what not.  So I really don’t want to debate with you any longer because of that. 

     Please Phil, look at the DATE this thread was started...it was started on January 9.  Off Stride (the best handicapper on this forum) dug it up from the archives by posting something on May 25, which propelled this thread back into action.  Your comments about me being a strange bird, well, you're trying to provoke an argument so I'm not even going to address it because of the threats and physical assault you have been known to issue in the past.

     Number three, once again, you NEVER understood my posts because I said that HB1918 is a one-sided bill (in the track owners favor) that allows the Johnston's (your buddies) the opportunity to cash big while the trickle down effect of the bill’s revenue would have very little impact on the people that need the money most, the HORSEMEN.  I posted that if an entity cannot stand on its own merits without the help of another, it should be abolished.  I still stand by my decision.  Do you actually believe that I want harness racing to end in Illinois?  Is that what you think?  Well, you’re wrong.  I want harness racing like we used to have here and not the shit we have today.  What we have in Illinois right now is not harness racing, in my opinion, and if it continues as such, then I would have to say it is better off being abolished. 

     All I ever proposed about HB1918 was that I would support it 100% if the horsemen received all of the revenue, instead of having to split it with the tracks.  Now where does that say I want horsemen to work in a fast food restaurant, although I still maintain they would be better off both financially and economically?  You would not take me up on my proposal which said that if you took the average fast food worker and compared their pay to that of an average groom, the fast food worker would have more money at the end of the work-week, while working less hours under better conditions.   You knew damn well that I was challenging you to think outside of the box for a minute to look at how poorly the grooms and other behind the scenes track workers are paid versus the average fast food worker.  That comparison should have concluded to you that even bottom-of-the-barrel minimum wage fast food workers would earn more money than an experienced groom or behind the scenes worker on the backside.  What does that tell you about the industry and status of harness racing in Illinois?

     If I told you once, I told you a hundred times that I have all the respect in the world for you, but have decided that I cannot debate with you because of how personal you take things.  On the other hand, I would love to argue and debate with someone like you because it could help me later on down the road in my career.  In case you didn’t know it, that is what attorneys do best, argue and debate issues.  In addition, I would love to argue and debate with someone like you because I know that you have been around the block a time or two but I don't want to be subjected to threats of physical violence.  It’s not worth having you get so upset at me for something so stupid as a debate or disagreement we have about things.  I still respect your opinions but see you in a different light as I once did.  I don’t need or want any problems, so it’s better for me to get along with you and not debate or argue because of the way you perceive me to be.  Simply put, it means more to be to be able to say hello and get along with you then win a debate or argument.   

     You got so pissed off at our last debate that you acted like a child when I was debating with John and EW on another issue that you posted stuff like “great post” on their points of merit.  I simply ignored it and actually thought it was quite funny because that was not something you normally did and because you were upset, you decided to behave that way.  As a matter of fact, did you see how John, EW and I debated about the DUI and defense attorneys in general?  Tell me that it was not a good, clean and honest debate?  I came away from that debate with a respect for John and EW both.  That is how I like to debate and educate myself from the opposing side of the argument. 

    Since you asked, I'll attempt to help you better understand my concerns about racing and how I feel.  For the umpteenth time regarding HB1918, I will support the living hell out of that bill if the horsemen receive 100% of the revenue; otherwise, I am opposed to it.  Regardless of what you think, it’s my position that the track owners have at least been able to enjoy a profit each and every year, while the horsemen get poorer and poorer each and every year.  Bottom line:  the horsemen need major help in the form of revenue and not something that is going to have a small, if any impact on the purses while the track owners will reap huge rewards with the 50% that HB1918 provides them.  If that is what HB1918 states, then I will say no way.  HB1918 will have very little effect on most horsemen.  I just don’t see the revenue ever filtering its way down to the bottom-of-the-barrel horsemen that need it most, thus my reasoning that a fast food worker could earn more money than an average groom or behind the scenes worker with or without HB1918.  Its impact on the horsemen is miniscule while its impact on the track owners is HUGE making it all one-sided, in my opinion.  Just my opinion and if I have offended you, I certainly do apologize.  Phil, now look for Burton or some other troll on the forum to get involved in this and try to fire you up.  Guaranteed!

Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras

 
     
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AND NOW, HERE ARE YOUR UNLV 1990 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS:
                       GREG ANTHONY
                       ANDERSON HUNT
                       MOSES SCURRY
                       STACEY AUGMON
                       LARRY JOHNSON
THE BEST COACH EVER, JERRY "TARK" TARKANIAN
THIS IS HEAVEN
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« Reply #58 on: May 26, 2006, 10:07:29 AM »

JOE,
     Great post today. I like you support the bill if the horsemen receive 100% of the revenue which I don't think is going to happen. It will have very little effect on most horsemen.We can only hope that 2 years up the road that we have one strong organization with no corruption running the show.Hope your finals went well.


                                                   
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« Reply #59 on: May 26, 2006, 10:13:13 AM »

Joe,

You know we disagree about the "100% or nothing" stance on the bill -- however, I'm curious about something...

I think the reason that the tracks are "supposed" to be getting a portion of this bill would be to further market the sport and to have $ to spend on capital improvements.  Obviously, we don't know -- and in many cases, I would doubt -- that this would ever occur.

Would you support a "split" bill if the track portion had to be invested back into the industry?

Best,
EW
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« Reply #60 on: May 26, 2006, 10:15:26 AM »

             OK ,        joe you stated your opinion clearer this time .   RTP
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« Reply #61 on: May 26, 2006, 10:20:22 AM »

I think the reason that the tracks are "supposed" to be getting a portion of this bill would be to further market the sport and to have $ to spend on capital improvements.  Obviously, we don't know -- and in many cases, I would doubt -- that this would ever occur.

From the May IRB meeting:

The Board approved the initiation of emergency rulemaking to create rules governing the Horse Racing Equity Trust Fund, a non-appropriated trust fund to be managed by the Illinois Racing Board.

http://www.state.il.us/agency/irb/racing/pdf/meeting%20results/May%20Meeting%20Results.pdf
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« Reply #62 on: May 26, 2006, 10:25:24 AM »

From the May IRB meeting:

The Board approved the initiation of emergency rulemaking to create rules governing the Horse Racing Equity Trust Fund, a non-appropriated trust fund to be managed by the Illinois Racing Board.

http://www.state.il.us/agency/irb/racing/pdf/meeting%20results/May%20Meeting%20Results.pdf


Whoops.  I must've missed this because it was an "emergency" item.  Does anyone know exactly what came out of this agenda item?  Will the IRN be controlling all of the $?  Or just the track portion?

Best,
EW
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« Reply #63 on: May 26, 2006, 11:06:54 AM »

Joe,

You know we disagree about the "100% or nothing" stance on the bill -- however, I'm curious about something...

I think the reason that the tracks are "supposed" to be getting a portion of this bill would be to further market the sport and to have $ to spend on capital improvements.  Obviously, we don't know -- and in many cases, I would doubt -- that this would ever occur.

Would you support a "split" bill if the track portion had to be invested back into the industry?

Best,
EW
EW:

     Great question.  You're making think outside the box, but here goes.  If HB1918 clearly states that the IRB will receive the tracks 50% of the generated revenue, I would still be opposed to it for a number of reasons.

     First off, why should generated revenue be awarded to an enterprise so that they could use the money to advertise their product?  Isn't that the cost of doing business?  I mean if we are going to allow collected revenue to be used for advertising purposes, it sounds ridiculous.  The Johnston's along with every other track owner should be good business people and have an advertising expense account set-aside yearly for the sole purpose of advertising their business.  It should not be HB1918's intention to use the revenue to advertise because it is the business owner’s responsibility to do this. 

     EW, are you telling me that you would rather see the track owners 50% share of HB1918 be used for advertising instead of going to the horsemen who have been screwed royally for all these years?  Can't be.  It is the track owners responsibility to promote their product and one would certainly think that any track that did not comply would certainly be subjected to explanation to the IRB and consideration given in the way of date allocations, no?  If the IRB truly wants the very best for harness racing and has the state of Illinois best interest at heart, it will stop with all of the political games and issue Hawthorne at least 4 to 5 months of harness racing.  Let Balmoral apply for T-Bred dates.  None of the T-bred horsemen like Balmoral or the Johnston's and several have said that they would not race there. 

      Even if the tracks 50% of HB1918 was placed in an account that the IRB had control over, because of some of the questionable things that have happened over the years between the IRB and Johnston's, could they really be trusted to do the right thing?  I don't know and can only speculate that the Johnston's control the IRB from Lorna Propes to Marc Laino, it’s as simple as that.  Previous IRB's have allowed the Johnston's to get away with murder and the current board is no better.

     Long answer to a short question, no-I would not support HB1918 even if the tracks 50% went to the IRB for industry promotion because neither of the two (track owners or IRB) has shown any kind of upstanding accountability and integrity.  Have a look a the date allocations year after year and ask yourself this; is the IRB and honest and trustworthy administrative agency?  I’ll let you answer that question.  Just my opinion.

Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras   

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AND NOW, HERE ARE YOUR UNLV 1990 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS:
                       GREG ANTHONY
                       ANDERSON HUNT
                       MOSES SCURRY
                       STACEY AUGMON
                       LARRY JOHNSON
THE BEST COACH EVER, JERRY "TARK" TARKANIAN
THIS IS HEAVEN
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