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Author Topic: HARNESS RACING A DYING SPORT  (Read 5033 times)
TC
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« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2006, 01:02:20 AM »

     Last time I was at the Merriville OTB Parlor there was a homeless guy in the bathroom with his shirt off taking a shower in the sink. I am not lying either. This guy is there every night and he asked me for $5. I give it to him most of the time just so he won't bother me anymore. I figure that since he always asks to borrow $5 without ever thinking that he has to pay it back, when he sees me next time he'll scoot out the back door.

     I told the security guard that they should install showers in the men’s restroom so the sinks will be available to wash our hands in. About 20 minutes later that guy came out of the restroom with wet hair and all. I was in disbelief.

     I know one thing; after living in Las Vegas for 14 years, I can tell you that the Casinos do not tolerate shit like that. They make damn sure their customers are comfortable and safe. If you attend any of the OTB's today, you might want to carry a gun or brass knuckles for protection.

Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras
(A UNLV Runnin Rebel For Life)

Joe, was the guy named Dick or Richard Breth ?  Did he st-st-stammer or st-st-stutter at all ?  Was he with any gay Asian male companions ?  By the by, don't advocate bringing deadly weapons to your local OTB or you'll end up in the Laim-o files.  Funny how the IRB lapdog can't spot a chronic abuser of the drug rules at the track but now has the time to police the entire internet - LMFAO.  TC
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Armonsol
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« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2006, 01:37:54 AM »

Joe, thats were i'm talking about. I stop there and bet and get out of dodge. I used to go all of the time but all of a sudden it got bad. Don't leave your program laying around there either.
I have left programs unattended for a split second and Houdini, I mean Tyrone, takes off with it.  You are right on that one.
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TC
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« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2006, 01:44:03 AM »

I have left programs unattended for a split second and Houdini, I mean Tyrone, takes off with it.  You are right on that one.
Did you follow the trail of Kool in the air, scratch-off lottery tickets, or AFDC check stubs to pursue the person Armonsol ?  TC
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ComputerGeek
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« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2006, 10:02:04 AM »

I hate to admit it, but maybe they need to take a cue from Arlington's off and on track.  At least I've seen non-horse players go to Arlington to enjoy a day there.  They'd rather cut their wrist than go to Balmoral or Maywood.  Even the off track at Arlington is somewhat attend-able.

Clean up the clientele!!!!
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mgriffin
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« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2006, 11:11:52 AM »

You guys are all draining your energy.
The sport will not die in our lifetime. We have the Big M and WB/MK. Enough said.
It is sad to see people losing jobs, but it should be those that band together to make a difference. In the end, management is not going to care about the little people but whether they need to upgrade their wallet.

MG
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PickfourNYC
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« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2006, 12:09:46 PM »

For what it's worth the OTB facilities in NYC are no better than the ones mentioned here.  Quasi homeless shelters late at night, definitely housing the abyss of society.  

Interestingly, there are several facilities in NYC that are considered Restaurant/OTB's, and for a $5 admission fee, you can actually wager in some degree of comfort, while at the same time securing track prices (i.e. - no OTB surcharge).  Now why everyone doesn't pay that $5 to get into these places, to secure track prices, is beyond me; but then again that's the nature of the degenerate "down and out" gambler.  Can't see the value of of spending the $5, knowing that one winning bet makes up for the admission fee, but rather see it as a situation of having $5 less to bet.

As an aside, NYC OTB's are also classically mismanged.  It's the only gambling establishment that encourages you not to bet.  From Monday-Sat, at these Restaurant OTB's, they close up, regardless of whether there are still ongoing live races throughout the country (for one, the Balmoral/Maywood races). You have the opportunity of course to go downstairs into the "regular" OTB's, which of course no one does. I could never figure out this business plan, other than to know of course OTB is a governmental run agency, with political appointees at top positions, and therefore running a genuine business is not necessarily the agenda.  Some months ago they actually had the gall to attempt to charge you a service fee for amounts left in your phone account, for "non-usage" periods.  Fortunately some one woke up and nixed this service charge right away, but for me personally, having been somewhat of a user of their phone betting system, I immediately withdrew my funds from it, and they are never seeing me make a deposit again.  Just incredible arrogance and stupidity on their part, rolled into one.

Lastly, as to the topic of Harness Racing being a "dying sport", unfortunately I have to agree.  Clearly as a live spectator venue, the OTB's have seen to that, coupled of course with the influx of other forms of gambling, and of course the ease of online wagering.  Naturally the continued negative perception of harness racing, accurate or not, doesn't provide a warm feeling to John Q Public.  Let's think about it,  would one continue to go to a casino and bet on a tilted roulette wheel, or loaded dice, if that's what you actually thought happened there?  Flat out, nobody!

For me personally, I love the game, and now have a part interest in a 3-year old trotter than we're hopeful with for this upcoming year (and SJ's Photo colt, 1/2 brother to SJ's Cavier).  I've been supporting this game for over 20 years, as a fan, speculator, and now 1st time owner, and it disgusts me that there are an inordinate amount of problems with the sport, largely as a result of this negative perception (partly deserved by the way), awful marketing. and naturally there being no clear or defined body of enforceable regulations that can be used to eliminate those that do cheat.

To this point about perception, and it's importance.  In the accounting profession, we've undergone  the last several years the implementation of something known as the Sarbanes Oxley Act, a myriad or internal control rules and regulations that each publicly traded corporation must now follow, to which CEO's and CFO's must now sign off on, with the understanding that they accept complete responsibility of what's being issued to the Public, subject to criminal prosecution for subsequent wrong doing.   Ultimately this was a swift response to some very public bankruptcies committed by Worldcom, Enron, etc., a few bad apples out of 1,000's and 1,000's of companies that actually issue proper statements. However, with the threat of a wanning public confidence looming, which could have wrecked havoc on the financial markets, the accounting industry, etc; something had to be done to show the Public that such criminal activity would not be tolerated, mandating now that those "in charge" acknowledge and accept responsibility for wrong doings.   

My point simply is this; continue to lose the Public's confidence, have a governing body that does nothing to give the appearance that something's being done positively, and there won't be any racing left.   The greatest harness track closed before my eyes in the late 80's (Roosevelt), if it could happen to the doulbe R's, it could happen to any track.
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« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2006, 12:19:27 AM »

For me personally, I love the game, and now have a part interest in a 3-year old trotter than we're hopeful with for this upcoming year (and SJ's Photo colt, 1/2 brother to SJ's Cavier).  I've been supporting this game for over 20 years, as a fan, speculator, and now 1st time owner, and it disgusts me that there are an inordinate amount of problems with the sport, largely as a result of this negative perception (partly deserved by the way), awful marketing. and naturally there being no clear or defined body of enforceable regulations that can be used to eliminate those that do cheat.

PickfourNYC,

Very nice post.  It is interesting to read that the problems at OTB's are consistent at other venues.  I agree whole-heartedly with your statements about perception in the industry.  It is the situation known as, "Perception is Reality."  We need consistent rules in place to bolster our perception as an industry.

I do, however, have a question about the horse you currently have in training.  You stated that the 3-year-old trotter is a 1/2 brother to SJ's Caviar.  If he is by SJ's Photo, your horse is a Full Brother to SJ's Caviar (SJ's Photo - Spawning).  Do you mean your horse is just by the same sire as SJ's Caviar or do you have his brother?
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Elsie

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« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2006, 11:07:58 AM »

The johnstons are going to revive chicago racing by writing 2,000 claiming races that go for 1,200. All bustouts please enter your broken down three legged rats so you can pick up a few crumbs to enjoy eating in the luxury of your townhome.I mean tack room.
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off stride
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« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2006, 11:10:56 AM »

The johnstons are going to revive chicago racing by writing 2,000 claiming races that go for 1,200. All bustouts please enter your broken down three legged rats so you can pick up a few crumbs to enjoy eating in the luxury of your townhome.I mean tack room.

      oh .. you mean enter the 4,000 claimers at 2,000
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« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2006, 11:16:53 AM »

I AIN'T DYIN' I'M THRIVIN'.WINNING AT THREE TRACKS A WEEK THANKS TO THE BUY LOW SELL HIGH THEORY OF HORSEMANSHIP.I'LL BE EATING PRIME RIB AT THE MEADOWLANDS AND MORTON'S IN CLEVELAND WHEN YOU ARE FIGHTING OVER THE NEXT LOUSY BACKSIDE MEATBALL SERVED UP BY CRUMMY TRAINERS IN CHI-TOWN. PUT ME IN THE TRAILER
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PickfourNYC
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« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2006, 11:28:56 AM »

PickfourNYC,

I do, however, have a question about the horse you currently have in training.  You stated that the 3-year-old trotter is a 1/2 brother to SJ's Caviar.  If he is by SJ's Photo, your horse is a Full Brother to SJ's Caviar (SJ's Photo - Spawning).  Do you mean your horse is just by the same sire as SJ's Caviar or do you have his brother?

Maybe I'm confused - if we share the same sire, SJ Photo, as we do, but have different broodmares (which we do), wouldn't that make my colt a 1/2 brother to SJ's Caviar and not a full brother?  Would have thought, with same sire but different mothers, we are only 1/2 Brothers at best.

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Elsie
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« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2006, 01:50:16 PM »

Maybe I'm confused - if we share the same sire, SJ Photo, as we do, but have different broodmares (which we do), wouldn't that make my colt a 1/2 brother to SJ's Caviar and not a full brother?  Would have thought, with same sire but different mothers, we are only 1/2 Brothers at best.

Okay, now we are getting somewhere.  For your horse to be considered a 1/2 brother to SJ’s Caviar, he would need to be from the mare Spawning, but by a different sire than SJ’s Photo.  Since Spawning is not in your horse’s pedigree, they are not considered related.

Unlike in humans, racehorses (and I believe all livestock, but am not 100% certain) only consider the mother’s pedigree in establishing brothers and sisters.  Simply sharing the same sire does not qualify two offspring to be considered siblings.

Based on your understanding, you could just as easily have stated your trotter is a 1/2 brother to the Hambletonian Winner, Vivid Photo, or Classic Photo (both by SJ's Photo).  It is interesting that you selected SJ’s Caviar to list.

If our industry used the concept of step-siblings, I could make some HUGE claims about my horses.  My Western Hanover would be a 1/2 sister to Western Ideal and/or The Panderosa.  My Abercrombie would be a 1/2 brother to Artsplace and/or Life Sign.  My Conway Hall would be a 1/2 brother to the 2004 Triple Crown Winner, Windsong’s Legacy.  In reality, this is not a true description of my stock.

Unless his dam has produced a notable foal, your horse is simply a 3-year-old trotting colt by SJ’s Photo.  I do not say that in the slightest bad way, as he has produced many outstanding racehorses.  I hope yours is the next headliner for the stallion!

I just thought it was important to clarify the terminology we use in the industry.
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Elsie

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« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2006, 05:12:41 PM »

Okay, now we are getting somewhere.  For your horse to be considered a 1/2 brother to SJ’s Caviar, he would need to be from the mare Spawning, but by a different sire than SJ’s Photo.  Since Spawning is not in your horse’s pedigree, they are not considered related.

Unlike in humans, racehorses (and I believe all livestock, but am not 100% certain) only consider the mother’s pedigree in establishing brothers and sisters.  Simply sharing the same sire does not qualify two offspring to be considered siblings.

Based on your understanding, you could just as easily have stated your trotter is a 1/2 brother to the Hambletonian Winner, Vivid Photo, or Classic Photo (both by SJ's Photo).  It is interesting that you selected SJ’s Caviar to list.

If our industry used the concept of step-siblings, I could make some HUGE claims about my horses.  My Western Hanover would be a 1/2 sister to Western Ideal and/or The Panderosa.  My Abercrombie would be a 1/2 brother to Artsplace and/or Life Sign.  My Conway Hall would be a 1/2 brother to the 2004 Triple Crown Winner, Windsong’s Legacy.  In reality, this is not a true description of my stock.

Unless his dam has produced a notable foal, your horse is simply a 3-year-old trotting colt by SJ’s Photo.  I do not say that in the slightest bad way, as he has produced many outstanding racehorses.  I hope yours is the next headliner for the stallion!

I just thought it was important to clarify the terminology we use in the industry.



Who says you can't learn something everyday?  Thanks for the breeding lesson.

The last piece of the genealogy, when comparing my horse to SJ's Caviar, is that while we have different  dams, both dams share the same sire, that's T.V. Yankeee

As it is, our horse took 2 of 5 starts as a two year old, where unfortunatly he broke in both his PA Sire races going for decent cash ($20k for one; $35k for the other).  His last race, a late closing event at the Red Mile, he trotted wire to wire in 158.3, and beat an Erv Miller piece that won the following week.  He was turned out after his last Sept race.  Trevor Ritchie, who drove our colt, said he thought we had a nice trotter on our hands.

Hope springs eternal, so we'll see what we have this upcoming year.  I just visited him this Sunday at Showplace Farms in NJ, and he has clearly grown and gained some weight.  Of couse, he couldn't wait to munch on his carrots.  Only time will tell of course.


   
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« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2006, 09:51:59 AM »

When an aging racing fan such as the  one's that post on this websit. Try to compare today's racing with racing 30 years ago as far as fan base is asinine. When Sportsmans 's and Maywood and Washington were packed to the rafters they had no competition. Such as OTB's , Riverboats . Internet wagering. DVD movies VHS tapes. There are an abundance of way's to entertain yourself these days. Instead the only option of getting in your car and drivng 20 miles to the racetrack. The world is changing and sadly everyone who gripes on this site aging and holding on to their past. Iv's sat with an abundance of aging trainers and they shake their heads at what is out there as far as someone classifying themselves as a trainer. You can point your finger at track owners but they race what is brought to them. If a hole like Northfield can handle over a million with those  pigs racing. That proves the betting public in majority dont care if it's 2000 claimers or 20,000 claimers to them its a race regardless. People who gripe and moan are the degenerate gamblers who want better quality stock to run truer to form. So they feel they are getting a better opportunity to win. Wake Up Dummy's You cant win and will never be a winner when you gamble! Because it's an unpredictable outcome . Blame and point and relive old memories all you want. If people will risk there money on balls bouncing around in cylinder the certainly will continue to risk there money on horses running around in a circle. It's not dead it's just changing like all of us.  Grin
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« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2006, 10:30:12 AM »

If a hole like Northfield can handle over a million with those  pigs racing.
once again somebody from chicago greatly over rating his chicago horseflesh.. northfield is ultra clean..with no beggars..i repeat no scum as you chicago types *** and moan about..has a micro brew..hi-rollers room..rewards program ..great food in the clubhouse and the horses are a lot better than you think..their sat nite card is loaded with high end claimers and opens filled with fast horses.. with young and hungry drivers.. pushing the oldtimers to the sideline or at least to  the weekday cards.. most of the 'pigs' racing are in your backyard and if you would step out of your element you would see they run a good show.. the head honchos ..dressed in tuxedos walk the grandstands.. visit diners in the clubhouse answer all your questions.. i had a ? for pub director keith gisser.. so i emailed him..i got a reply in less than 1/2 hour! you try that in chicago..if you can find your track bosses.. no hour long track scraping delays.. they chased the criminals away.. no belcher..no hawk.. no tharps.. no jimmy p.. they raised their handle the old fashioned way... they earned it.. the hard way... racing on a basic 4 day week with instate competition.. no slots, no bingo, no riverboats.. very limited off track facilitites.. state law keeps them at least 50 miles from tracks.. they promote..promote..promote...their mailing list must be huge.. several mystery voucher nites yearly...santa give a ways.. they dont get to open until 3 o'clock on live racing days so extra handle off the t-breds on fri , sat simulcasts  dont help..
    as for the racing.. 40% winning favorites for 2005, i wonder what balmoral does?.. and from may thru sept. scioto is open, and only a couple of hours away.. the meadows and slot rich west va. are only a couple of hours away.. yet nfld thrives.. why...people enjoy their experience and come back for more.. over 2000 every nite pay to get in.. much more on super nite..battle nite..cleveland classic nite.. the place is packed .. a game room for the kids.. people who say hi to you at the program stand and thank you to you at the windows... their sat nite simulcast program for 4 bucks is a thick as a phone book.. buy a live program and guess what.. in it is a chicago book

THEY HAVE THEIR SH!T TOGETHER AND CHICAGO  IS OVERRATED [/b]
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potrasalve
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« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2006, 11:22:45 AM »

It's Cleveland you moron! Where are they supposed to go. Downtown Cleveland. And after all the comps and kindness you still lose your ass. Oh yea love those finishes at Northfield the field gapped out by thirty lengths. And lets not forget Gregg "And There They Are " Young. There who are who's first who's second who's third ? Farmers in Tux's ? You have to have been born in the wheat field.  Grin
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« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2006, 11:33:40 AM »

Where are they supposed to go. Downtown Cleveland?

you obviously havent been to the flats.. the rock n roll hall of fame.. the new browns stadium.. the jake..the gund ... but in case you didnt know nfld is 30 minutes south of cleveland..kind of like balmoral to chicago and the people still go..stay in chicago..never leave..its a perfect place for all the left wing *** to hang out.. you need to learn how to pick winners not also rans or your nose... the world does not revolve around chicago.. look at balmorals races several horses cant compete and get beat bad as at most b tracks... hats off too wall of famer greg young..blows chicagos announcers away..even on a bad night


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« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2006, 01:19:32 PM »

You have to have been born in the wheat field. 

if the choice is between..
and
give me wheat..or give me death
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potrasalve
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« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2006, 03:43:30 PM »

Your a sick bird. Stay in Cleveland and spare us you simpleness you simpleminded goof. Greg Young has his own style. By no means near Chicago's talent.
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« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2006, 04:15:15 PM »

Off Stride id right Northfield Park does have its shit together. I have been there numerous times and the racing is better, people are nicer, announcer is good and funny, everythig is just better. the most imprortint thing is everyone is having a good time. Eveybody is happy. Its better then walking into Maywood or Balmaral like walking into a morgue. All the horsemen miss Scott Erlik
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