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Author Topic: 1st race Tioga.  (Read 4271 times)
njhorseman
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« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2007, 08:25:50 PM »

the original quote was not about deceased drivers and other names of the past.. the person was speaking of current drivers, so it was a bad answer.  So, unless you want to contribute to the conversation with something meaningful, fine.  Otherwise, take your inane drivel and go home with your miserable poorly-written book.

I'm happy to see that you're behaving up to your usual high standards. For a few minutes I thought you could actually discuss something like an adult. I should have known better.
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« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2007, 09:07:38 PM »

Boots Dunn has over 1000 wins and over two million in earnings as an amateur.Apparently he knows how to turn left.
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I am just an old "Hoss" trainer, that has been raced hard and put away wet. 
As my Friend from Maine(Ora Stratton) says "There are horse trainers, and then there are real "Hoss" trainers.
Phlegm Wad
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« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2007, 07:21:59 AM »

Boots Dunn has over 1000 wins and over two million in earnings as an amateur.Apparently he knows how to turn left.

yes, apparently he knows how to steer left.  And apparently he is 80 friggin years old so, eh, never mind - I guess I know the answer to my question.   Michigan Dale yankled that he knew "many" amateur drivers who are good enough to make a living driving as pros - I challenged him to produce the names of THREE that he knows, who could.  He produced NONE.  Paulie produces some girl from the racing office who has never raced against pros and, hasn't been in a bike in years.  You give me some 80 year old geriatric crotzer.

I think I know the answer to my question.  Thanks for the "input".
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« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2007, 07:31:57 AM »

I'm happy to see that you're behaving up to your usual high standards. For a few minutes I thought you could actually discuss something like an adult. I should have known better.
NJhorseman is a very good judge of character.
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I am just an old "Hoss" trainer, that has been raced hard and put away wet. 
As my Friend from Maine(Ora Stratton) says "There are horse trainers, and then there are real "Hoss" trainers.
Phlegm Wad
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« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2007, 09:50:53 AM »

NJhorseman is a very good judge of character.

Possibly, but he knows NOTHING about horses or drivers.  Too bad his book didnt have a section on CHARACTER!  May have been worth the price of the paper it was printed on!

My case has been made.  Thank you guys for answering my question with an authoritative thud of "there are NO amateurs currently racing who could make a living."
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Michigan Dale
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« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2007, 10:31:28 AM »

I do not wish to engage in a online 'challenge' that  is nothing more than a online spat and war of words.  For those that understand the definition of amateur and do not confuse it with novice or lack of talent, no explanation or 'naming' 3 is necessary.  For others - no explanation will do regardess of how correct the explanation may be.  Fact is, naming 3 is easy.  Selecting which three from such a large group would be the challenge.  There are some amateurs by definition that are way better than some 'professionals' at numerous tracks and some professionals that would not do well in the Billings as I see it.  There is a niche in our sport for amateur racing....folks can take it or leave it.  For me and many others, we'll take it.  Now MY case is closed.
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Phlegm Wad
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« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2007, 10:53:48 AM »

I do not wish to engage in a online 'challenge' that  is nothing more than a online spat and war of words.  For those that understand the definition of amateur and do not confuse it with novice or lack of talent, no explanation or 'naming' 3 is necessary.  For others - no explanation will do regardess of how correct the explanation may be.  Fact is, naming 3 is easy.  Selecting which three from such a large group would be the challenge.  There are some amateurs by definition that are way better than some 'professionals' at numerous tracks and some professionals that would not do well in the Billings as I see it.  There is a niche in our sport for amateur racing....folks can take it or leave it.  For me and many others, we'll take it.  Now MY case is closed.

OH, the old "there's so many I don't know which three to pick" line, eh?  Please remind me not to have you at my murder trial as a witness!

Prosecutor:  And you say you were with PW on the night of the murder?
MichiganDale:  Yes sir, I was.
Prosecutor:  And where were you?
MichiganDale: We were so many places, I cannot say because I don't which one to choose!!

No problem.  Answer is assumed to be ZERO until credible evidence is presented
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Goliath
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« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2007, 11:14:26 AM »

Now it is clear. Mr. bodily excrement is a lawyer. No wonder he has such winning charm and personality. And like most lawyers he can only tell you what you do wrong but never anything he has done right. It is easy to sit in judgment of anything or anyone, but until you have tried it yourself, it is usually best to just keep your mouth shut. I can watch a tennis match and say that guy stinks but I also know I could do no better. Seems like Mr. lawyer was the last guy picked in the schoolyard for every game and just gets off trying to denigrate anyone who has the temerity to give it a try, good or bad. It is easy to sit on the couch with a bag of chips and type but until I see better results from him, his rants are just that and nothing more. 
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njhorseman
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« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2007, 03:41:51 PM »

Possibly, but he knows NOTHING about horses or drivers. 

Funny, a bit earlier in the thread you said:" Lets ask the expert.  Hey Paulie - you know what a good driver is "
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Moni Maker
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« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2007, 04:17:30 PM »

Hello, I just joined this site a little while back and have read a lot of things with intrest and sat back. This thread sort of hit on a sore subject with me....The Billings races.. They are "Amateur" races...There should not be any betting allowed on them.... I was in the business for many years and never thought that when the betting public was involved, anything but the pros should be out there. I think having the races for them is fine, just no betting. Then you don't have the excuse factor..."Yes, he gave a bad drive, but you can't say anything because he is an amateur". That being said, When people complain about a drive or driver...fine..they put their money up...Drivers, you don't like people saying things about your drive...find another job!!! EVERY athlete in every sport has to put up with criticism! Learn from it and move on or get out of the sport. One reason that I always thought Thoroughbred racing did better was that everyone that took a fancy could not go out there and compete! If you are going to involve the betting public, keep the game as professional as possible. I know you are going to say there are a lot of "pro" drivers out there that are no good, but the lack of their ability to make money will dictate their length stay and number of drives... Sorry to ramble on so...
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njhorseman
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« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2007, 04:45:31 PM »

Moni Maker:

 No one is forcing anyone to bet on amateur races.
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2007, 04:49:55 PM »

Hello, I just joined this site a little while back and have read a lot of things with intrest and sat back. This thread sort of hit on a sore subject with me....The Billings races.. They are "Amateur" races...There should not be any betting allowed on them.... I was in the business for many years and never thought that when the betting public was involved, anything but the pros should be out there. I think having the races for them is fine, just no betting. Then you don't have the excuse factor..."Yes, he gave a bad drive, but you can't say anything because he is an amateur". That being said, When people complain about a drive or driver...fine..they put their money up...Drivers, you don't like people saying things about your drive...find another job!!! EVERY athlete in every sport has to put up with criticism! Learn from it and move on or get out of the sport. One reason that I always thought Thoroughbred racing did better was that everyone that took a fancy could not go out there and compete! If you are going to involve the betting public, keep the game as professional as possible. I know you are going to say there are a lot of "pro" drivers out there that are no good, but the lack of their ability to make money will dictate their length stay and number of drives... Sorry to ramble on so...


So how much did you lose on the BILLINGS race that you bet ?

 nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah
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Moni Maker
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« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2007, 04:55:34 PM »

njhorseman....hate to disagree...if it is a "carded" race...if you want to bet, that is what there is...you don't "have"  to bet on any race!
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FreeLegged
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« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2007, 04:56:45 PM »

In my opinion, it would be better for fans and the amateur drivers to have these non-betting races. I say for the driver too because I think it would take a degree of pressure off.
With that sad, I do also agree with NJ that nobody is forcing a person to bet these races.

These races are never in the middle of a pick 4 or anything like that, right? Because if they were, then I think they should take another look at this.
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« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2007, 04:59:25 PM »

Niatross..."So how much did you lose on the BILLINGS race that you bet ?" nothing,that I can remember...LOL...I started driving back in 82 and wanted nothing more than to be like one of my hero's from the sport....I just think the two should be separate....pro...amateur....they can card them as non betting all day as nothing come from the purse account...
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Phlegm Wad
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« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2007, 05:39:52 PM »

As I've said on this forum before, I LOVE betting on Billings races because it's usually the easiest money out there.  First, you can elimate most of horses from win consideration just by the drivers, without even looking at the horse!   You see a horse driven by a fat stiff like Verusso, WHAM, I grab my pencil and put a big thick squiggle right through the horse's lines on the paper as if the horse were scratched.  With a bum like that driving, the horse might as well be scratched!

There's really only a couple of guys who are capable of winning.  It doesnt matter how bad their horses look on paper.  Wham! It's like an ATM machine.  Race after Race.  Keep it going!!!  I just stick to the couple of drivers who can handle a horse even half decently.  I let the fat retards who are just out there for fun do their little fun thing and I cash.  Easly Pleasie Lemon Squeezie. 

I say keep those races on the card!  Half these people are like UHAULS sitting behing their horses. I saw this John Regina guy one time.  He looked bigger then his friggin horse!   I love putting thick black lines through bafoons like Donely, Malnichinko, Casale, Verusso, Regina, Heckoff. I think betting is easy when you can knock out 80% of the field just on the driver alone!
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njhorseman
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« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2007, 06:03:05 PM »

njhorseman....hate to disagree...if it is a "carded" race...if you want to bet, that is what there is...you don't "have"  to bet on any race!

Moni Maker:

I am very selective about the races I bet. For example, today I was at Freehold for the first 10 races, and bet exactly one race. The majority of the races were for 2yo trotters and other green horses. Unless I see something important in warm ups, I pass on these races...and every driver participating in them was a professional.

Again, no one is holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to bet.

If you treat wagering on racing as an investment, not gambling, you'll be a whole lot better off in the long run.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2007, 07:05:43 PM by njhorseman » Report to moderator   Logged
njhorseman
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« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2007, 06:05:24 PM »

As I've said on this forum before, I LOVE betting on Billings races because it's usually the easiest money out there.  First, you can elimate most of horses from win consideration just by the drivers, without even looking at the horse!   You see a horse driven by a fat stiff like Verusso, WHAM, I grab my pencil and put a big thick squiggle right through the horse's lines on the paper as if the horse were scratched.  With a bum like that driving, the horse might as well be scratched!

There's really only a couple of guys who are capable of winning.  It doesnt matter how bad their horses look on paper.  Wham! It's like an ATM machine.  Race after Race.  Keep it going!!!  I just stick to the couple of drivers who can handle a horse even half decently.  I let the fat retards who are just out there for fun do their little fun thing and I cash.  Easly Pleasie Lemon Squeezie. 

I say keep those races on the card!  Half these people are like UHAULS sitting behing their horses. I saw this John Regina guy one time.  He looked bigger then his friggin horse!   I love putting thick black lines through bafoons like Donely, Malnichinko, Casale, Verusso, Regina, Heckoff. I think betting is easy when you can knock out 80% of the field just on the driver alone!

Although I would not have stated this exactly the way you did, nor named names, I actually agree with your thesis here. These can be excellent races to bet if you know the drivers and horses.
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Moni Maker
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« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2007, 06:56:39 PM »

njhorseman....let me tell you this much about me... I am a terrible gambler...this was shown to me by a friend that is a VERY good gambler... You see, I know (or did) most of these drivers on a personal basis from so many years in the business. I got my friends that I want to see win and the others that I think are jerks and don't want them to do well.I see posts on here about some drivers and don't get involved as my opinion is more personal then fact....see, as you should know this is no way to approach gambling (with your heart and not head).  I will tell you two more things that I think about harness racing...#1. catch drivers ruined the sport...#2.. Catch drivers saved the business....If you have been around racing and where I have been, you would be able to figure out what I am saying... or not...LOL    maroon
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Phlegm Wad
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« Reply #44 on: August 28, 2007, 07:11:33 PM »

MICHIGAN DALE UPDATE

His horse is still running.  Looked like he was gonna fall out of the seat!  Another Billings race won by one of the only 2 DRIVERS who could have won.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #45 on: August 28, 2007, 07:11:45 PM »

Moni Maker:

My first trip to the track was about 50 years ago...so it's a fairly safe bet that "I've been around racing and where you've been"...maybe not geographically(I don't know one way or another), but in most other ways. Wink
« Last Edit: August 28, 2007, 07:30:10 PM by njhorseman » Report to moderator   Logged
njhorseman
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« Reply #46 on: August 28, 2007, 07:13:31 PM »

MICHIGAN DALE UPDATE

His horse is still running.  Looked like he was gonna fall out of the seat!  Another Billings race won by one of the only 2 DRIVERS who could have won.

You should write a book on how to win friends and influence people... Roll Eyes
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Michigan Dale
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« Reply #47 on: August 29, 2007, 07:12:13 AM »

Somebody sure seems hung up on the Amateur Driving and the Billings series - so much that he/she is drawing a great deal of attention to it.   Thanks, so much, we appreciate it.   Can't tell you how many great laughs were had last night discussing the online Amateur Driver wannabe that hides behind a screen name and fondles the keyboard while others are out on the track in 90 degree heat and humidity having a great time for the love of the sport.  This, after traveling hundreds of miles for the experience.   For me alone, it was a 760 mile roundtrip.  Back home at 4 a.m. and in my office by 8:30.   Its called commitment.   Another was looking at a 12 hour drive back to Wisconsin.   Two others flew in from Chicago and New Jersey respectively.   

Keep that great PR coming!   One said the guy/gal/robot, whatever it is, must be a lawyer.....some seem to think maybe a Reporter since facts are not important.   For example, the Michigan Dale Update said the horse is still running.....that indicates the horse made a break (running) which of course did not happen.  It would be a nice idea if Reporters actually knew something about the subject matter. The old boy's 14 year-old legs did the best they could against a very nice winning horse and driver and we finished 4th in the field of 9. (Did anybody REALLY think Rubicella and Bob Troyer could be beat?)  My congratulations to the winners last evening.

Relative to Michigan Dale looking as though he'd fall out of the seat....that's funny.   Didn't feel that way, other observers thought we looked pretty darn comfortable actually, and its really flattering (I guess) to know somebody is so hung up on us that they watch so closely.   Wonder if they could tell what color underwear I was wearing?   Probably.  (was I wearing any at all?)

As for wagering/non-wagering....really not my call and does not matter one way or the other.   We're there for the passion, the competition, the putting on the colors and having fun doing something countless others wish they had a chance to do and for me its also being a goodwill ambassador to the sport.   The folks at Scioto were very accommodating to us all and made things enjoyable.   A big thanks to Scioto for hosting the Billings series.

Finally, I will continue to beat the drum that Amateur does not equate to novice or inexperienced.   Sometimes it does, but not always.   Its a definition relative to compensation.   There are today and have been in the past some Amateurs (by definition) that are actually professionals driving and training their own horses or donating any driver fees to charity.   Being an Amateur does not mean that somehow the drivers are pointing towards going pro.  Not at all.    Its one of the great things about our sport.   You're never too old to get started.  I'm a perfect example of being a late bloomer and my license is the same as thousands of professionals.   

Thing is, we know our niche and pretty much stay in it.   I enjoy a great living professionally and also in my hobby that is harness racing.   My wish is that everybody pursue their passion and dreams - if they did we'd be a much happier society with far less negativism and sparring.   
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Phlegm Wad
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« Reply #48 on: August 29, 2007, 07:43:46 AM »

OK goofball - whatever. From here, it looked like you had a big load in your diaper! 

And the phrase "still running" is a common racetrack saying fool - get with it.

Your license is the same as what?  Who?  What "thousands" of professionals do you have the same license as??   You have ZERO parimutuel wins and you DON'T have a full license - I checked - you have a provisional license.  How you obtained that I don't know.  Some kind of payoff to a race official?  Some kinky goings-on between you and the presiding judge at some winky dink track?  Lord knows.  But that's for another discussion.  The fact of the matter is you DONT have the same license as THOUSANDS of other drivers (if indeed there are THOUSANDS).  You have the same license as some newbies and some people who couldn't win enough to get a real license.  So why not call a spade a spade and stop putting all kinds of silly exaggerations in your diatribe, or thesis, or short story or whatever the hell you call that long-winded nonsense.  My eyes hurt just reading it all!  Your gonna get carpal tunnel if you keep it up!
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Michigan Dale
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« Reply #49 on: August 29, 2007, 07:57:01 AM »

The ignorance you show, PW, is so darn hysterical its beyond comprehension.   Yes, there are Thousands of Provisional licenses and they race each and every day of the year at pari-mutual tracks throughout the land.  My license is precisely the same as theirs and most have had them for years.   Do you know that many 'P' licensees are 'P's only because they've not registered their colors?   A 'P' license IS a real license, but let's not let facts get in the way of your incredible lack of understanding and logic.   Did you ever pass grade school or gym class?   Many of us have our doubts.   There really should be a minimum age and educational standard to post on these forums.   It would be the great cleansing of Internet gunk. Get with it?   Indeed you should, but keep that PR coming - the more you rant and carry on like a spoiled brat wannabe playground thug, the more readers enjoy the amusement.    Once again, Mr. Reporter, you have no facts but that's to be expected.    No pari-mutual wins?   Better check again, pal.   Nope, don't have many but it does not matter Mr. Keyboard Klown.  I/we're having fun and enjoying life, it just does not get any better than that.  Finally, a 'load in my diaper?'  You saw that?   The load stands for Poop Wad, as in PW, get it?   Give us an address and we'll mail it to you.
Damn, you're funny.....
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