Amicar

[trotter1]

I apologize in advance if this has already been talked about but could someone let me know what this is?

I see that it's being disclosed now at the BigM.   Is it a painkiller?   Could you speak of advantages and
disadvantages?

Thanks!

[njhorseman]

I apologize in advance if this has already been talked about but could someone let me know what this is?

I see that it's being disclosed now at the BigM.   Is it a painkiller?   Could you speak of advantages and
disadvantages?

Thanks!

Amicar is used to treat EIPH (bleeding) in conjunction with Lasix. A number of states, such as PA, have allowed its use for years. NJ just recently changed its rules to permit Amicar use in certified bleeders.

My personal experience with Amicar was favorable. If I had a horse racing in NJ that was bleeding through his Lasix, it would generally improve when I raced at Pocono where the horse could be treated with Amicar. Like any medication, it may work better for some horses than others.

[njhorseman]

By the way, Amicar is not a diuretic like Lasix, so it can be useful for treating horses that tend to get dehydrated and have electrolyte imbalance problems from Lasix. I found I could cut down the Lasix dose when  treating with Amicar, and it seemed to help the horses that had that problem.

[trotter1]

Thank you sir 

[njhorseman]

You're welcome.

[the DailyDaley]

By the way, Amicar is not a diuretic like Lasix, so it can be useful for treating horses that tend to get dehydrated and have electrolyte imbalance problems from Lasix. I found I could cut down the Lasix dose when  treating with Amicar, and it seemed to help the horses that had that problem.

I didn't realize you were a licensed vet NJ .

You said it, I didn't "I found I could cut down on the Lasix dose" .

Congratulations .

[FreeLegged]

DD
you are going too far in twisting people's words into meaning something that was not intended.

[Gb]

DD
you are going too far in twisting people's words into meaning something that was not intended.

That is all he ever does, and when NJ busts him on what he posts, then the subject gets changed. talk about someone that just wastes space!!!!

[njhorseman]

I didn't realize you were a licensed vet NJ .

You said it, I didn't "I found I could cut down on the Lasix dose" .

Congratulations .

It's not the vet who decides how much Lasix is administered to the horse. Within regulations (states typically have minimum and maximum doses), it's up to the horse's connections to decide how much to give.

One doesn't have to be a vet, but merely have some intelligence and horsemanship, to understand the relationships between Lasix, dehydration, and electrolyte imbalance.

[MWG]

And once again, NJH puts the "dunce hat" on Dailey Daley and makes him go sit in the corner.

[njhorseman]

It's amazing how someone can ask a straightforward question, someone else can give a simple, factual answer, and it ends up with  by DD. 

I intentionally didn't toss in a little aside about how many scores I made over the years by taking horses that had been racing at Freehold, shipping them to Pocono when Freehold is closed in the summer, and treating them with Amicar in addition to their Lasix. 

Daley, you chump...I hope the cash lining my pockets when I made those scores included some of your dead money . 

[the DailyDaley]

It's not the vet who decides how much Lasix is administered to the horse. Within regulations (states typically have minimum and maximum doses), it's up to the horse's connections to decide how much to give.

One doesn't have to be a vet, but merely have some intelligence and horsemanship, to understand the relationships between Lasix, dehydration, and electrolyte imbalance.

This couldn't be FARTHER from the truth. The state vet has to put the horse on the lasix list. The twitch goes on the horses nose NJ, not yours. Which is where the problem is. Based on the SCOPE RESULTS the horse is administered their REQUIRED DOSAGE by the STATE.

The EXTRA DOSE that the trainer would give IS ILLEGAL. And is usually given to MASK something.

If they DID more GRAVITY TESTING on the BLOOD, ALL STATES would find out the EXCESS LASIX in the horses system. But they don't want to catch them, so its BUSINESS as USUAL at Bowel Movement Downs.

This is FACT .

[talking head]

In Illinois the state vet asks you how much lasix you want to give your horse!

[the DailyDaley]

In Illinois the state vet asks you how much lasix you want to give your horse!

The state vet asks what the dosage was from the previous administering state.

SURE YOU CAN TELL THEM 20 CCs, or 30 or whatever.

I have a call into the stete vet at the Meadows.

To be continued.

[talking head]

The state vet asks what the dosage was from the previous administering state.

SURE YOU CAN TELL THEM 20 CCs, or 30 or whatever.

I have a call into the stete vet at the Meadows.

To be continued.

It doesn't matter what the dosage was from the other state! Some horses can not handle a high dose of lasix.
20cc - 30cc WHAT! 

[the DailyDaley]

I agree. Some horses get dehyrated quickly with the EXTRA. When you go from state to state, you carry a document (just like you do a coggins for health reasons) which stipulates the dosage administered from the previous state.

This way, there is no MIS-communication between ANYBODY concerning the dosage.

[njhorseman]

I agree. Some horses get dehyrated quickly with the EXTRA. When you go from state to state, you carry a document (just like you do a coggins for health reasons) which stipulates the dosage administered from the previous state.

This way, there is no MIS-communication between ANYBODY concerning the dosage.

Bull. There's no document that has the Lasix dosage. Different states have different allowable dosages.. The fact that the horse is a certified bleeder is documented on his electronic eligibility "papers" with the USTA.

[njhorseman]

This couldn't be FARTHER from the truth. The state vet has to put the horse on the lasix list. The twitch goes on the horses nose NJ, not yours. Which is where the problem is. Based on the SCOPE RESULTS the horse is administered their REQUIRED DOSAGE by the STATE.

The EXTRA DOSE that the trainer would give IS ILLEGAL. And is usually given to MASK something.

If they DID more GRAVITY TESTING on the BLOOD, ALL STATES would find out the EXCESS LASIX in the horses system. But they don't want to catch them, so its BUSINESS as USUAL at Bowel Movement Downs.

This is FACT .

Of course the vet puts the horse on the list. That's why I used the term "certified bleeder." Beyond that, it's your choice as to how much Lasix you tell the vet to administer, within the guidelines set by state rules.

No one's talking about illegal extra Lasix, except you in your conspiracy theory addled mind.

[njhorseman]

It doesn't matter what the dosage was from the other state! Some horses can not handle a high dose of lasix.
20cc - 30cc WHAT! 

20-30 cc's. Shows how much you know. 

[the DailyDaley]

Bull. There's no document that has the Lasix dosage. Different states have different allowable dosages.. The fact that the horse is a certified bleeder is documented on his electronic eligibility "papers" with the USTA.

This was a THOUGHT Elsie.

I see Delaware made their visit to Showplace Farms. Read the article below. The various trainers were contacted the day before and were told to have the horse ready for sampling.

I bet you the Clorox was busy yesterday.

Harrington, DE --- The Delaware Harness Racing Commission broke new ground on Tuesday (July 24) with its out-of-competition testing program by traveling to three states collecting blood samples from eight horses scheduled to race on Governor’s Day (Thursday, July 26, at Harrington Raceway).

Racing Administrator Hugh Gallagher, in consort with DHRC Chief Investigator Robert Collison, decided to implement the out-of-competition rule regardless of the stabling location of the horses randomly selected for testing.

DHRC rules allow for “any horse entered within 60 days of the draw date” to be tested for EPO/DPO or other like blood oxygenating substances. The DHRC rule provides for a 10-year suspension and $10,000 fine, absent extraordinary circumstances, for the possession of or presence of EPO/DPO in any test sample.

After Mr. Gallagher had consulted with Official Forensic Chemist Joe Strug of Dalare Laboratories in Philadelphia, Pa., he met with Mr. Collison and DHRC Commission Veterinarian Annie Renzetti on Monday (July 23) at Harrington to go over the rule, protocols and field practices for the upcoming testing. The protocol included procuring the official USTA tattoo number and markings to properly identify each horse.

After the races were drawn, one race was randomly selected by lot to be tested. Mr. Collison contacted every trainer in the race by phone to make arrangements for testing the next day. The horses were stabled in various locations including Showplace Farm in New Jersey and two other locations in Maryland.

At approximately 6:00 a.m. on Tuesday (July 24), Mr. Collison and Dr. Renzetti were joined by long standing Delaware DHRC Racing Official Brian Manges, who would identify each horse by tattoo and markings prior to Dr. Renzetti’s blood draws.

The team headed up the New Jersey Turnpike to Showplace and successfully obtained the required sample.

According to Chief Investigator Collison, “I believe we enjoyed complete success today. Our plan went flawlessly, collecting blood from eight horses stabled in three different states.”

Mr. Collison delivered all eight samples to Mr. Strug at Dalare Laboratories for ELISA screening tests.

Mr. Gallagher had high praise for this team.

“I am extremely grateful and fortunate to have three industry experts answer the call of duty on short notice and to successfully complete what in essence was a rapid deployment exercise. The DHRC is proud of the professionalism and courtesy manifested by these three individuals.”

The DHRC had prior experience with out-of-competition testing earlier in the year in compliance with a request from Dr. Lawrence Soma of the New Bolton Center. Dr. Soma had been retained by the DHRC as a consultant to thoroughly assess and analyze the DHRC’s Blood Gas Testing practices and procedures. One phase of his review called for testing horses at rest in their natural environment. Four trainers volunteered to work with the DHRC on that project which went very well.

Mr. Collison complimented the trainers on that occasion and Mr. Gallagher sent letters of appreciation. Mr. Collison again made reference to the trainers involved in yesterday’s out-of-competition testing.

“The trainers deserve recognition for their complete and trusting response to our requests. We could not have been shown more respect and cooperation.”

Mr. Gallagher concluded his comments on this operation by saying, “I believe that the overwhelming majority of horsemen competing in Delaware know that we have their best interests in mind. In turn, this sends a strong signal to the tracks that wagering on Delaware’s harness racing is a safe bet.

“Our testing programs are truly designed to level the playing field of competition and to permanently eliminate substances that become insidious to horses, such as EPO, from our jurisdiction (and hopefully the greater world of horse racing) once and for all.

“On behalf of our diligent Commissioners and the determined leadership of Delaware Secretary of Agriculture Michael Scuse (DSOA Special Appreciation Award–2005), we are all determined and committed to doing the very best we can to make Delaware’s harness racing programs first in integrity.”


It's RANDOM when they SHOW UP unannounced.

I would have to think Tony Soprano's garbage crew was busy.

The BLIND LEADING the BLIND. I can't say any more.

[njhorseman]

What this has to do with Lasix and Amicar is beyond me.

However, the visit to Showplace looks like no more than grandstanding by the DHRC. They had no choice but to announce their intentions, simply because the DHRC has absolutely no legal authority to conduct testing in NJ. When calling the trainers in advance, they obtained the permission of the trainers to have their horses tested. I'm sure they used the threat of scratching any horse whose trainer didn't "voluntarily" comply with the testing, and given the timing of the whole thing, no one would have had the time to get a court injunction to prevent the testing.

I'm glad you're sure that bleach will mask EPO. Did this bit of information come from the same person who told you that horses can get 30ccs of Lasix from the vet?

[Goliath]

I race in many states and the vet always asks how much Lasix you want. There is NO record of this. And who gives 20-30 cc's? 10-15 is allot. Most get 6-8.

[njhorseman]

I race in many states and the vet always asks how much Lasix you want. There is NO record of this. And who gives 20-30 cc's? 10-15 is allot. Most get 6-8.

Goliath:

Don't expect the DD to let the facts interfere with his delusions. 

[the DailyDaley]

What this has to do with Lasix and Amicar is beyond me.

However, the visit to Showplace looks like no more than grandstanding by the DHRC. They had no choice but to announce their intentions, simply because the DHRC has absolutely no legal authority to conduct testing in NJ. When calling the trainers in advance, they obtained the permission of the trainers to have their horses tested. I'm sure they used the threat of scratching any horse whose trainer didn't "voluntarily" comply with the testing, and given the timing of the whole thing, no one would have had the time to get a court injunction to prevent the testing.

I'm glad you're sure that bleach will mask EPO. Did this bit of information come from the same person who told you that horses can get 30ccs of Lasix from the vet?

Once again NJ thru your blind eye THINK. Every now and then a trainer will get NOTIFIED of an excessive limit of lasix thru a blood test.

If the state administers XXX then the blood should be somewhere in the xxx range. The labs know this number in ADVANCE.

When it exceeds the LIMIT, this means the horse came to the LASIX barn already TREATED with Lasix. And the state added to the trainers dose.

Which would but the horse over the LIMIT for an EXCESSIVE lasix dose.

As far as Delaware goes. I WOULD HOPE the race commission tests these horses on race day also. Actually take 2 more tests. One as soon as the horse enters the grounds and a post race sample. This way the lab could have a 2 or 3 day out sample, a hour sample prior to racing and then a post sample to compare.

I would also think if the testing would include the same methods used by the World Doping Agency, this would get CLEANED up MUCH faster.

[njhorseman]

Once again NJ thru your blind eye THINK. Every now and then a trainer will get NOTIFIED of an excessive limit of lasix thru a blood test.

If the state administers XXX then the blood should be somewhere in the xxx range. The labs know this number in ADVANCE.

When it exceeds the LIMIT, this means the horse came to the LASIX barn already TREATED with Lasix. And the state added to the trainers dose.

Which would but the horse over the LIMIT for an EXCESSIVE lasix dose.

As far as Delaware goes. I WOULD HOPE the race commission tests these horses on race day also. Actually take 2 more tests. One as soon as the horse enters the grounds and a post race sample. This way the lab could have a 2 or 3 day out sample, a hour sample prior to racing and then a post sample to compare.

I would also think if the testing would include the same methods used by the World Doping Agency, this would get CLEANED up MUCH faster.

Daley:

What makes you think that I'm unaware of testing for excess Lasix? That wasn't what we were "talking" about.

As far as the DE testing is concerned, how would testing for EPO  when they come in to the paddock and after the race help?  EPO is used several days before the race and direct evidence of it is gone by race day. That's why you need the out of competition testing for EPO.