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Author Topic: The Johnston's Latest Proposal  (Read 6608 times)
John Doe
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« on: January 03, 2006, 08:32:23 PM »





Since not everyone on the forum could be in attendance at to day's meeting, I was sent numerous emails asking if I would post their latest offer to the horsemen. I am hopeful somebody reading this proposal who is skilled in negotiations, might put their input up here stating the good and bad points of this. Thanks. Here is the Johnston's offer sent to the IHHA late last night.

Proposal Goal: Maintain 2005 purse structure in 2006

By "maintaining 2005 purse structure," Maywood/Balmoral commit to distribute, on average $2.1 million per month ($25 million was distributed in 2005)

Maywood/Balmoral will defer 50% of its 2006 recapture entitlement.

* The deferred amount will be recoverable only if and when new revenue becomes available.

* Rate and amount of recovery will be limited to 50% of the horsemen's percentage of new revenue generated in any given year.

* No "sunset" applied to recovery of 2006 deferred amounts.

"New revenue" is defined as legislatively approved non pari-mutuel revenue streams, such as, but not limited to, gaming revenues.

In the event 50% recovery is inadequate to maintain 2005 purse structure:

* Maywood/Balmoral will defer up to 60% of 2006 recapture; the additional 10% deferred to be recovered as above;

* If, after 60% deferment, purses generated are still insufficient to maintain 2005 purse structure, Maywood/Balmoral reserves the right to reduce purses accordingly.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2006, 08:42:10 PM »




Since not everyone on the forum could be in attendance at to day's meeting, I was sent numerous emails asking if I would post their latest offer to the horsemen. I am hopeful somebody reading this proposal who is skilled in negotiations, might put their input up here stating the good and bad points of this. Thanks. Here is the Johnston's offer sent to the IHHA late last night.

Proposal Goal: Maintain 2005 purse structure in 2006

By "maintaining 2005 purse structure," Maywood/Balmoral commit to distribute, on average $2.1 million per month ($25 million was distributed in 2005)

Maywood/Balmoral will defer 50% of its 2006 recapture entitlement.

* The deferred amount will be recoverable only if and when new revenue becomes available.

* Rate and amount of recovery will be limited to 50% of the horsemen's percentage of new revenue generated in any given year.

* No "sunset" applied to recovery of 2006 deferred amounts.

"New revenue" is defined as legislatively approved non pari-mutuel revenue streams, such as, but not limited to, gaming revenues.

In the event 50% recovery is inadequate to maintain 2005 purse structure:

* Maywood/Balmoral will defer up to 60% of 2006 recapture; the additional 10% deferred to be recovered as above;

* If, after 60% deferment, purses generated are still insufficient to maintain 2005 purse structure, Maywood/Balmoral reserves the right to reduce purses accordingly.


Who wrote this proposal the Johnston's themselves or their lawyer? I can't for the life of me see how that proposal could ever be accepted. The Johnston's will get every dime they have coming but the horseman can be really hurt in the end.
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Kenneth J. Chadwick
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« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2006, 09:07:59 PM »

Dear Group:

To make this readable, someone has to give an example (examples of every article) to bring it down to a level for the majority of individuals can read and understand this.  Remember most horsemen did not attend Harvard University in Boston, MA.

This appears to be written by Attorneys.

Lets get rid of the legalize and make this practical.

Give the agreement back to Johnston have the Johnston's Attorney put it every day language.

Examples, examples, examples.


Kenneth J. Chadwick   
« Last Edit: January 03, 2006, 09:12:10 PM by Kenneth J. Chadwick » Report to moderator   Logged

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abtruth
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« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2006, 09:09:03 PM »

the johnsons should take this deal and put it where the son dont shine.we can hold out for better if we stand untied.give me a brake will ya.i went to this weeks meeting after skipping last week and those b.s. rumors on here were untrue about a few guys wanting to race.only plecher said he wood like to.get the story strait or get off the net.truth
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potrasalve
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« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2006, 10:51:42 AM »

Unfortunately striking is becoming a non effective tool to achieve anything. It is becoming increasingly a no win method of attaining an agreement from both parties. Full time representatives of both parties need to be in constant communication hammering out a new contract long before the current contract has ended. The mentality in Chicago racing evolved in to standoffs like a gunfight.
Two bulls squaring off come contract time. Things are never done this way with success. With the price of gas and the economy the way it is unless you are prepared for a long term money strangle you are going to be hurting. You cannot recover from long layoffs of limited income. That's why representatives have to avoid the word strike like a plague. It's is a useless tool in today's world because you only go backwards and never catch up. And in long run how much do you think you are really going to benefit as far as significant money increase. It's not guranteed income for each individual you still have to win. They should be fighting for things that wont go away like health and welfare securilty.
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SUPERMAN
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« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2006, 11:55:29 AM »

       There should be no dates given by the IRB until a contract is guaranteed to be signed by both parties. If they see the Johnstons are dealing in bad faith as they always do. Screw them and give Hawthrone the dates. Thats was to easy last year but the bird brain racing board can't see the forest for the trees. Hawthrone did a great job last year and the Horsemen and Hawthrone both got *** by the IRB. Now the Irb acts like there so worried and are getting involved in the contract talks. Tell them all to take a long walk on a short pier.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2006, 12:55:15 PM »

Dear Group:

To make this readable, someone has to give an example (examples of every article) to bring it down to a level for the majority of individuals can read and understand this.  Remember most horsemen did not attend Harvard University in Boston, MA.

This appears to be written by Attorneys.

Lets get rid of the legalize and make this practical.

Give the agreement back to Johnston have the Johnston's Attorney put it every day language.

Examples, examples, examples.


Kenneth J. Chadwick   


Of course it was written by lawyers, but I thought it was very plainly written and easy to understand. If this is a legitimate proposal from management, I don't see the two sides being all that far apart. Perhaps inclusion of a "sunset" provision would be all that it would take for both sides to swallow hard and accept a compromise.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2006, 01:32:22 PM »

Of course it was written by lawyers, but I thought it was very plainly written and easy to understand. If this is a legitimate proposal from management, I don't see the two sides being all that far apart. Perhaps inclusion of a "sunset" provision would be all that it would take for both sides to swallow hard and accept a compromise.

Paul
        It's easy for you to understand because no doubt you were a Harvard grad, but for the common horseman it's not as easy to understand.

        The way I understand it is that the Johnston's are guaranteed all their money but the horseman could be racing for purses less then they were racing for in 2005. I can't for the life of me understand why the horseman are still willing to race for 3 and $4000 purses when they know damn well the owners and trainers can't make money racing for what they raced for in 2005.

        I see a shortage of horses at most tracks in this country so why don't these people who claim to love racing horses so much pick up and leave Chicago and race somewhere else? I know alot of horseman have homes and family in the Chicago area but many people in all walks of life relocate when their jobs take them to different places. Rick Dane saw how different and fun racing can be when he went to the Big M. last year and now even though he's under suspension he's still alot happier then the horsesman in Chicago are today.

        I would rather race at Cal Expo or Freehold then race in Chicago and cut one ounce of slack to the Johnston's after what they have done to Chicago harness racing.   
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njhorseman
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« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2006, 02:02:49 PM »

Paul
        It's easy for you to understand because no doubt you were a Harvard grad, but for the common horseman it's not as easy to understand.

        The way I understand it is that the Johnston's are guaranteed all their money but the horseman could be racing for purses less then they were racing for in 2005. I can't for the life of me understand why the horseman are still willing to race for 3 and $4000 purses when they know damn well the owners and trainers can't make money racing for what they raced for in 2005.

        I see a shortage of horses at most tracks in this country so why don't these people who claim to love racing horses so much pick up and leave Chicago and race somewhere else? I know alot of horseman have homes and family in the Chicago area but many people in all walks of life relocate when their jobs take them to different places. Rick Dane saw how different and fun racing can be when he went to the Big M. last year and now even though he's under suspension he's still alot happier then the horsesman in Chicago are today.

        I would rather race at Cal Expo or Freehold then race in Chicago and cut one ounce of slack to the Johnston's after what they have done to Chicago harness racing.   


Dan:

I'm not a Harvard graduate, and I'll bet you're not either, but I'll bet you understood exactly what Joe posted.

The only way purses could fall below 2005 levels would be if it  required deferring more than 60% of the recapture entitlement to maintain the purse structure. Perhaps someone with alll the numbers at hand can estimate, based on 2005 handle, how likely that would be.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2006, 02:39:40 PM »

Dan:

I'm not a Harvard graduate, and I'll bet you're not either, but I'll bet you understood exactly what Joe posted.

The only way purses could fall below 2005 levels would be if it  required deferring more than 60% of the recapture entitlement to maintain the purse structure. Perhaps someone with alll the numbers at hand can estimate, based on 2005 handle, how likely that would be.

Paul, let me ask you a serious question. Would you as an owner buy horses and race them in Chicago for the purses they raced for 2005?

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njhorseman
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« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2006, 02:47:47 PM »

Paul, let me ask you a serious question. Would you as an owner buy horses and race them in Chicago for the purses they raced for 2005?



Dan:
I wouldn't race a cheap claimer, but I wouldn't race a cheap claimer in NJ either. I think you can make money on higher level horses. The purses in Chicago aren't as good as those at the Meadowlands, but at the higher end they are generally as good or better than they are at Freehold.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2006, 03:57:18 PM by njhorseman » Report to moderator   Logged
cumonwire
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« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2006, 03:24:13 PM »

Don't worry about the Sunset Rule, if a new revenue stream does come on line, THEN horsemen will have leverage in a negotiation and a boycott might work.

Take the deal!  or sit out for 2 months and give-up $4,000,000.

Anyone who thinks the Tracks are going to fold come Sat. Afternoon is kidding themselves.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2006, 03:32:20 PM »

Don't worry about the Sunset Rule, if a new revenue stream does come on line, THEN horsemen will have leverage in a negotiation and a boycott might work.

Take the deal!  or sit out for 2 months and give-up $4,000,000.

Anyone who thinks the Tracks are going to fold come Sat. Afternoon is kidding themselves.

IF....IF..... IF.....IF.....AND MORE IF'S, THAT'S ALL THE HORSEMAN HAVE HEARD FOR THE LAST 15 YEARS. IF THIS COMES AND IF THAT HAPPENS THINGS WILL BE GREAT.

    GUESS WHAT PAL, THE IF'S HAVE NEVER COME AND SO HASN'T THE OTHER PROMISES MADE TO THE HORSEMAN AND THAT'S WHY THEY ARE IN THE BOAT THEY ARE IN TODAY.

   
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cumonwire
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« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2006, 03:44:23 PM »

So take the Deal
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2006, 03:51:39 PM »

So take the Deal

So, take the deal and let the Johnston's win again and send the horseman deeper into the poor house, right? Is this what you are saying?

    Are you an owner who is worried about paying for your horses up keep while they are on strike or are you some trainer who is willing to race for anything that's thrown at you just so you can get your training bill each month even if you know your owners can't come out ahead?
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cumonwire
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« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2006, 04:06:23 PM »

The problem Harness Racing is having is not due to the Race Tracks.  We need to be racing and more importantly start to address the fundamental problems which had better be fixed or there will be no more harness racing.  And the Tracks are partners with the horsemen in these endeavors.

Harness Racing has to increase the pie.  Let's get back to racing and start working on the real problems.
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kellytuc
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« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2006, 04:27:07 PM »

Of course hes not an owner Dan.  Hes not being realistic with the numbers.
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kellytuc
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« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2006, 04:38:38 PM »

Cumonwire,
What are the real problems.  The Johnstons inability to market the business or the Johnstons greed in taking their on-track surcharge?
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boiler
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« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2006, 05:18:09 PM »

IF your aunt had testicles she would be your uncle. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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fineline
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« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2006, 05:41:10 PM »

I very much dislike the the Johnston's and Langley I just dint understand the horseman side where do they think the money is coming from ,since the state stopped subsidizing the industry they have had this problem . This is the same problem major tracks are having New York Calif.Except for DELMAR SARATOGA which are more of a happening. This is a dying business unable to get the young people to slow and to much work to particpate making decisions, Not as easy as pulling a handle .Every time a old time horseplayer dies there is no one replace him. Only the strong will survive and there will not be many of those.I do not know the answers .When all said and done probably 6 or 7 thoroughbred tracks will survive and 4or 5 harness tracks .There was mistake made but the main problem is competion for the  Entertainment dollar
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cumonwire
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« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2006, 07:40:21 PM »

Dan *** doesn't like the deal because the Johnsons will WIN AGAIN.

It's not about the Johnsons, it is about what is best for the Illinois Harness Horsemen.
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darth vader
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« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2006, 09:56:49 PM »

the only way for the horsemen to win is  everyone pulls out takes there horses off the  grounds and tell them to shove it .. and not to call the horsemen only when they want to take the terms that the horsemen have agreed upon  and maybe after  a few months or even a  year they may call or the  next option is to build your own track and run it yourself
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Formerdriver
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« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2006, 10:08:28 PM »

chadwick no one is responsible for you being uneducated except yourself.  it is not any one elses fault you are a moron.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2006, 10:09:10 PM »

Dan *** doesn't like the deal because the Johnsons will WIN AGAIN.

It's not about the Johnsons, it is about what is best for the Illinois Harness Horsemen.

And what's best for the Illinois horseman is to sit out until the purses go back to what they once were. Just because recapture is the law that doesn't mean the Johnston's have to take the money that doesn't belong to them in the first place. If the Johnston's wanted to be fair and get racing back to what it once was they would wave the entire recapture and still make millions just like they did before there was ever such a thing as recapture.They are greedy bastards who want it all while they leave the horseman broke.

     It has nothing to do with who wins. It has everything to do with what's happening to Chicago harness racing. Chicago has become a laughing stock to everyone in the harness world.    
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cumonwire
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« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2006, 10:23:52 PM »

good negotiating strategy, call the other side greedy bastards when your side is looking for concessions.  They are LEGALLY entitled to 100% of the recapture.
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