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Author Topic: The Johnston's Latest Proposal  (Read 6678 times)
John Doe
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« on: January 03, 2006, 08:32:23 PM »





Since not everyone on the forum could be in attendance at to day's meeting, I was sent numerous emails asking if I would post their latest offer to the horsemen. I am hopeful somebody reading this proposal who is skilled in negotiations, might put their input up here stating the good and bad points of this. Thanks. Here is the Johnston's offer sent to the IHHA late last night.

Proposal Goal: Maintain 2005 purse structure in 2006

By "maintaining 2005 purse structure," Maywood/Balmoral commit to distribute, on average $2.1 million per month ($25 million was distributed in 2005)

Maywood/Balmoral will defer 50% of its 2006 recapture entitlement.

* The deferred amount will be recoverable only if and when new revenue becomes available.

* Rate and amount of recovery will be limited to 50% of the horsemen's percentage of new revenue generated in any given year.

* No "sunset" applied to recovery of 2006 deferred amounts.

"New revenue" is defined as legislatively approved non pari-mutuel revenue streams, such as, but not limited to, gaming revenues.

In the event 50% recovery is inadequate to maintain 2005 purse structure:

* Maywood/Balmoral will defer up to 60% of 2006 recapture; the additional 10% deferred to be recovered as above;

* If, after 60% deferment, purses generated are still insufficient to maintain 2005 purse structure, Maywood/Balmoral reserves the right to reduce purses accordingly.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2006, 08:42:10 PM »




Since not everyone on the forum could be in attendance at to day's meeting, I was sent numerous emails asking if I would post their latest offer to the horsemen. I am hopeful somebody reading this proposal who is skilled in negotiations, might put their input up here stating the good and bad points of this. Thanks. Here is the Johnston's offer sent to the IHHA late last night.

Proposal Goal: Maintain 2005 purse structure in 2006

By "maintaining 2005 purse structure," Maywood/Balmoral commit to distribute, on average $2.1 million per month ($25 million was distributed in 2005)

Maywood/Balmoral will defer 50% of its 2006 recapture entitlement.

* The deferred amount will be recoverable only if and when new revenue becomes available.

* Rate and amount of recovery will be limited to 50% of the horsemen's percentage of new revenue generated in any given year.

* No "sunset" applied to recovery of 2006 deferred amounts.

"New revenue" is defined as legislatively approved non pari-mutuel revenue streams, such as, but not limited to, gaming revenues.

In the event 50% recovery is inadequate to maintain 2005 purse structure:

* Maywood/Balmoral will defer up to 60% of 2006 recapture; the additional 10% deferred to be recovered as above;

* If, after 60% deferment, purses generated are still insufficient to maintain 2005 purse structure, Maywood/Balmoral reserves the right to reduce purses accordingly.


Who wrote this proposal the Johnston's themselves or their lawyer? I can't for the life of me see how that proposal could ever be accepted. The Johnston's will get every dime they have coming but the horseman can be really hurt in the end.
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Kenneth J. Chadwick
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« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2006, 09:07:59 PM »

Dear Group:

To make this readable, someone has to give an example (examples of every article) to bring it down to a level for the majority of individuals can read and understand this.  Remember most horsemen did not attend Harvard University in Boston, MA.

This appears to be written by Attorneys.

Lets get rid of the legalize and make this practical.

Give the agreement back to Johnston have the Johnston's Attorney put it every day language.

Examples, examples, examples.


Kenneth J. Chadwick   
« Last Edit: January 03, 2006, 09:12:10 PM by Kenneth J. Chadwick » Report to moderator   Logged

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abtruth
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« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2006, 09:09:03 PM »

the johnsons should take this deal and put it where the son dont shine.we can hold out for better if we stand untied.give me a brake will ya.i went to this weeks meeting after skipping last week and those b.s. rumors on here were untrue about a few guys wanting to race.only plecher said he wood like to.get the story strait or get off the net.truth
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potrasalve
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« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2006, 10:51:42 AM »

Unfortunately striking is becoming a non effective tool to achieve anything. It is becoming increasingly a no win method of attaining an agreement from both parties. Full time representatives of both parties need to be in constant communication hammering out a new contract long before the current contract has ended. The mentality in Chicago racing evolved in to standoffs like a gunfight.
Two bulls squaring off come contract time. Things are never done this way with success. With the price of gas and the economy the way it is unless you are prepared for a long term money strangle you are going to be hurting. You cannot recover from long layoffs of limited income. That's why representatives have to avoid the word strike like a plague. It's is a useless tool in today's world because you only go backwards and never catch up. And in long run how much do you think you are really going to benefit as far as significant money increase. It's not guranteed income for each individual you still have to win. They should be fighting for things that wont go away like health and welfare securilty.
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SUPERMAN
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« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2006, 11:55:29 AM »

       There should be no dates given by the IRB until a contract is guaranteed to be signed by both parties. If they see the Johnstons are dealing in bad faith as they always do. Screw them and give Hawthrone the dates. Thats was to easy last year but the bird brain racing board can't see the forest for the trees. Hawthrone did a great job last year and the Horsemen and Hawthrone both got *** by the IRB. Now the Irb acts like there so worried and are getting involved in the contract talks. Tell them all to take a long walk on a short pier.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2006, 12:55:15 PM »

Dear Group:

To make this readable, someone has to give an example (examples of every article) to bring it down to a level for the majority of individuals can read and understand this.  Remember most horsemen did not attend Harvard University in Boston, MA.

This appears to be written by Attorneys.

Lets get rid of the legalize and make this practical.

Give the agreement back to Johnston have the Johnston's Attorney put it every day language.

Examples, examples, examples.


Kenneth J. Chadwick   


Of course it was written by lawyers, but I thought it was very plainly written and easy to understand. If this is a legitimate proposal from management, I don't see the two sides being all that far apart. Perhaps inclusion of a "sunset" provision would be all that it would take for both sides to swallow hard and accept a compromise.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2006, 01:32:22 PM »

Of course it was written by lawyers, but I thought it was very plainly written and easy to understand. If this is a legitimate proposal from management, I don't see the two sides being all that far apart. Perhaps inclusion of a "sunset" provision would be all that it would take for both sides to swallow hard and accept a compromise.

Paul
        It's easy for you to understand because no doubt you were a Harvard grad, but for the common horseman it's not as easy to understand.

        The way I understand it is that the Johnston's are guaranteed all their money but the horseman could be racing for purses less then they were racing for in 2005. I can't for the life of me understand why the horseman are still willing to race for 3 and $4000 purses when they know damn well the owners and trainers can't make money racing for what they raced for in 2005.

        I see a shortage of horses at most tracks in this country so why don't these people who claim to love racing horses so much pick up and leave Chicago and race somewhere else? I know alot of horseman have homes and family in the Chicago area but many people in all walks of life relocate when their jobs take them to different places. Rick Dane saw how different and fun racing can be when he went to the Big M. last year and now even though he's under suspension he's still alot happier then the horsesman in Chicago are today.

        I would rather race at Cal Expo or Freehold then race in Chicago and cut one ounce of slack to the Johnston's after what they have done to Chicago harness racing.   
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njhorseman
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« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2006, 02:02:49 PM »

Paul
        It's easy for you to understand because no doubt you were a Harvard grad, but for the common horseman it's not as easy to understand.

        The way I understand it is that the Johnston's are guaranteed all their money but the horseman could be racing for purses less then they were racing for in 2005. I can't for the life of me understand why the horseman are still willing to race for 3 and $4000 purses when they know damn well the owners and trainers can't make money racing for what they raced for in 2005.

        I see a shortage of horses at most tracks in this country so why don't these people who claim to love racing horses so much pick up and leave Chicago and race somewhere else? I know alot of horseman have homes and family in the Chicago area but many people in all walks of life relocate when their jobs take them to different places. Rick Dane saw how different and fun racing can be when he went to the Big M. last year and now even though he's under suspension he's still alot happier then the horsesman in Chicago are today.

        I would rather race at Cal Expo or Freehold then race in Chicago and cut one ounce of slack to the Johnston's after what they have done to Chicago harness racing.   


Dan:

I'm not a Harvard graduate, and I'll bet you're not either, but I'll bet you understood exactly what Joe posted.

The only way purses could fall below 2005 levels would be if it  required deferring more than 60% of the recapture entitlement to maintain the purse structure. Perhaps someone with alll the numbers at hand can estimate, based on 2005 handle, how likely that would be.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2006, 02:39:40 PM »

Dan:

I'm not a Harvard graduate, and I'll bet you're not either, but I'll bet you understood exactly what Joe posted.

The only way purses could fall below 2005 levels would be if it  required deferring more than 60% of the recapture entitlement to maintain the purse structure. Perhaps someone with alll the numbers at hand can estimate, based on 2005 handle, how likely that would be.

Paul, let me ask you a serious question. Would you as an owner buy horses and race them in Chicago for the purses they raced for 2005?

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njhorseman
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« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2006, 02:47:47 PM »

Paul, let me ask you a serious question. Would you as an owner buy horses and race them in Chicago for the purses they raced for 2005?



Dan:
I wouldn't race a cheap claimer, but I wouldn't race a cheap claimer in NJ either. I think you can make money on higher level horses. The purses in Chicago aren't as good as those at the Meadowlands, but at the higher end they are generally as good or better than they are at Freehold.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2006, 03:57:18 PM by njhorseman » Report to moderator   Logged
cumonwire
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« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2006, 03:24:13 PM »

Don't worry about the Sunset Rule, if a new revenue stream does come on line, THEN horsemen will have leverage in a negotiation and a boycott might work.

Take the deal!  or sit out for 2 months and give-up $4,000,000.

Anyone who thinks the Tracks are going to fold come Sat. Afternoon is kidding themselves.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2006, 03:32:20 PM »

Don't worry about the Sunset Rule, if a new revenue stream does come on line, THEN horsemen will have leverage in a negotiation and a boycott might work.

Take the deal!  or sit out for 2 months and give-up $4,000,000.

Anyone who thinks the Tracks are going to fold come Sat. Afternoon is kidding themselves.

IF....IF..... IF.....IF.....AND MORE IF'S, THAT'S ALL THE HORSEMAN HAVE HEARD FOR THE LAST 15 YEARS. IF THIS COMES AND IF THAT HAPPENS THINGS WILL BE GREAT.

    GUESS WHAT PAL, THE IF'S HAVE NEVER COME AND SO HASN'T THE OTHER PROMISES MADE TO THE HORSEMAN AND THAT'S WHY THEY ARE IN THE BOAT THEY ARE IN TODAY.

   
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cumonwire
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« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2006, 03:44:23 PM »

So take the Deal
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2006, 03:51:39 PM »

So take the Deal

So, take the deal and let the Johnston's win again and send the horseman deeper into the poor house, right? Is this what you are saying?

    Are you an owner who is worried about paying for your horses up keep while they are on strike or are you some trainer who is willing to race for anything that's thrown at you just so you can get your training bill each month even if you know your owners can't come out ahead?
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cumonwire
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« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2006, 04:06:23 PM »

The problem Harness Racing is having is not due to the Race Tracks.  We need to be racing and more importantly start to address the fundamental problems which had better be fixed or there will be no more harness racing.  And the Tracks are partners with the horsemen in these endeavors.

Harness Racing has to increase the pie.  Let's get back to racing and start working on the real problems.
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kellytuc
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« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2006, 04:27:07 PM »

Of course hes not an owner Dan.  Hes not being realistic with the numbers.
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kellytuc
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« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2006, 04:38:38 PM »

Cumonwire,
What are the real problems.  The Johnstons inability to market the business or the Johnstons greed in taking their on-track surcharge?
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« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2006, 05:18:09 PM »

IF your aunt had testicles she would be your uncle. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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fineline
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« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2006, 05:41:10 PM »

I very much dislike the the Johnston's and Langley I just dint understand the horseman side where do they think the money is coming from ,since the state stopped subsidizing the industry they have had this problem . This is the same problem major tracks are having New York Calif.Except for DELMAR SARATOGA which are more of a happening. This is a dying business unable to get the young people to slow and to much work to particpate making decisions, Not as easy as pulling a handle .Every time a old time horseplayer dies there is no one replace him. Only the strong will survive and there will not be many of those.I do not know the answers .When all said and done probably 6 or 7 thoroughbred tracks will survive and 4or 5 harness tracks .There was mistake made but the main problem is competion for the  Entertainment dollar
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cumonwire
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« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2006, 07:40:21 PM »

Dan Nance doesn't like the deal because the Johnsons will WIN AGAIN.

It's not about the Johnsons, it is about what is best for the Illinois Harness Horsemen.
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darth vader
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« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2006, 09:56:49 PM »

the only way for the horsemen to win is  everyone pulls out takes there horses off the  grounds and tell them to shove it .. and not to call the horsemen only when they want to take the terms that the horsemen have agreed upon  and maybe after  a few months or even a  year they may call or the  next option is to build your own track and run it yourself
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Formerdriver
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« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2006, 10:08:28 PM »

chadwick no one is responsible for you being uneducated except yourself.  it is not any one elses fault you are a moron.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2006, 10:09:10 PM »

Dan Nance doesn't like the deal because the Johnsons will WIN AGAIN.

It's not about the Johnsons, it is about what is best for the Illinois Harness Horsemen.

And what's best for the Illinois horseman is to sit out until the purses go back to what they once were. Just because recapture is the law that doesn't mean the Johnston's have to take the money that doesn't belong to them in the first place. If the Johnston's wanted to be fair and get racing back to what it once was they would wave the entire recapture and still make millions just like they did before there was ever such a thing as recapture.They are greedy bastards who want it all while they leave the horseman broke.

     It has nothing to do with who wins. It has everything to do with what's happening to Chicago harness racing. Chicago has become a laughing stock to everyone in the harness world.    
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cumonwire
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« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2006, 10:23:52 PM »

good negotiating strategy, call the other side greedy bastards when your side is looking for concessions.  They are LEGALLY entitled to 100% of the recapture.
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Formerdriver
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« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2006, 10:28:26 PM »

you guys go through this every year.  the fact is that it IS THE LAW...if you dont like the law, talk to the legislature, not the management.  you guys had the opportunuty on channel 2 the other night, and blew it.  if you dont like the LAW and you arent trying to change IT, then go somewhere else...dont fight the same losing battle every freakin january.  if the law said you got money, you wouldnt argue...why should they?
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2006, 10:48:28 PM »

you guys go through this every year.  the fact is that it IS THE LAW...if you dont like the law, talk to the legislature, not the management.  you guys had the opportunuty on channel 2 the other night, and blew it.  if you dont like the LAW and you arent trying to change IT, then go somewhere else...dont fight the same losing battle every freakin january.  if the law said you got money, you wouldnt argue...why should they?

The law....the law...the law is bullshit. The horseman were conned into agreeing to recapture so now it's time for them to say we will not race until the law is changed or the Johnton's wave 100% of it. I think those greedy bastards made enough free money off the horseman from recapture.

    Now it's time for the horseman to tell the Johnston's and the state of Illinois to shove the recapture up their ass or we will not race EVER AGAIN!!!!!
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Chitown Stan
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« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2006, 11:07:35 PM »

I know im going to get killed for this, but the horsemen aren't saints in this whole mess either. Fixing races and turning horses into drug addicts. Im certainly not sticking up for the Johnstons as you can tell by my previous posts, but you have to realize the horsemen have done NOTHING to help their cause, and I do mean NOHING with a capital N.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2006, 11:14:21 PM »

I know im going to get killed for this, but the horsemen aren't saints in this whole mess either. Fixing races and turning horses into drug addicts. Im certainly not sticking up for the Johnstons as you can tell by my previous posts, but you have to realize the horsemen have done NOTHING to help their cause, and I do mean NOHING with a capital N.

Yes, and the IRB encourages trainers to cheat because they let guys off the hook like Rucker when he gets 6 positives. The IRB is doing nothing about the druging of horses or the cheating by drivers. They worry about blood gas levels and suspend trainers without proper cause but yet they let the " teflon trainer " just keep on racing and getting positives every few months. That's what the real joke is, pal.
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justpacinby
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« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2006, 11:46:53 PM »

I may be new to this forum but, I have been in the business for several years now.  I can not see where a "strike" has solved anything.  Everybody screamed about Morgan, but at least we were still racing.  Sure the big stables were not hurt as bad while not racing but what about the small stables like Alan F.  Small stables can't afford to just pick up and leave state to race.  Most people have spouses and children that are in school.  I say RACE!!!!!!!!!!
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2006, 12:19:25 AM »

I may be new to this forum but, I have been in the business for several years now.  I can not see where a "strike" has solved anything.  Everybody screamed about Morgan, but at least we were still racing.  Sure the big stables were not hurt as bad while not racing but what about the small stables like Alan F.  Small stables can't afford to just pick up and leave state to race.  Most people have spouses and children that are in school.  I say RACE!!!!!!!!!!

Chicago has gone from the #2 product in the country to the laughing stock of harness racing. So, I guess you're right when you say LET'S RACE. It's obvious to me you weren't around when Chicago harness racing was a great product with outstanding horses racing week in and week out with other great horses shipping in from other places. Racing in Chicago today is equivalent to what Quad City Downs was, a cheap product.

     
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Richard Breth
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« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2006, 12:20:38 AM »

One observation. Anyone beside me think it intersting that most -- not all
-- militant voices in strike debate on this forum come from retired and or bustout ex horsemen and few never weres with nothing to lose in a strike. Interesting to me.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2006, 12:26:51 AM »

One observation. Anyone beside me think it intersting that most -- not all
-- militant voices in strike debate on this forum come from retired and or bustout ex horsemen and few never weres with nothing to lose in a strike. Interesting to me.

What's interesting to me is that you are the biggest jackoff nobody that ever lived. What role do you play in Chicago harness racing? Tell us Dick Breath. Who are you? What have you ever done in harness racing? How much money have you invested buying and racing horses.

    Why don't you go slip on some ice and split your head wide open. 
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Richard Breth
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« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2006, 12:28:39 AM »

What role do you play in Chicago harness racing?

The same you do. None.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2006, 12:35:14 AM »

The same you do. None.

OK, Dick Breath let's go round and round for the next hour so you can get your nightly fill. Make sure you try and get the last word in like your buddy Wendt.

    And, at least people know who I am when I post more then I can say for you. Better to be a has been then a never was, pal.
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Richard Breth
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« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2006, 12:37:56 AM »

OK, Dick Breath let's go round and round for the next hour so you can get your nightly fill. Make sure you try and get the last word in like your buddy Wendt.

Wendt had nothing on you when it came to "last words".
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Richard Breth
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« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2006, 12:39:44 AM »

One last word Dan. I am putting you back on ignore. After a night of reading what I was missing realize I wasnt missing anything. Anything intelligent.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2006, 01:03:39 AM »

One last word Dan. I am putting you back on ignore. After a night of reading what I was missing realize I wasnt missing anything. Anything intelligent.

Good, you do that because you are out of your league when it comes to me. I would rather talk to Tom Wendt anyday then you. Now go back and discuss more bullshit about numbers and the laws written to screw the horseman with goofs that will listen to your bullshit.
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justpacinby
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« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2006, 08:14:15 AM »

As far as being in chicago when we had good purses and good horses racing, I have been there playing the same role I am now.  The fact still remains, the owners are NOT making any money being on strike.   If you don't like to race for 3000 than DONT own a 4000 claimer.  I agree our purses suck.  All I am saying is that a strike is not setteling it anyway.  All we are doing with this strike is losing more good horses. DUH  If the Johnsons don't "give in"  what, won't we race until Hawthorne?  That would do the horseman wonders huh?  It does not take a brain scientist to figure out that the horsemen need to race in order to keep the owners.
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Kenneth J. Chadwick
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« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2006, 08:33:40 AM »

chadwick no one is responsible for you being uneducated except yourself.  it is not any one elses fault you are a moron.

Dear Former Driver:


You have a number of individuals with varying degrees of education.  Not everyone will comprehend the impact of the contract.  The purpose of an example(examples) is to show how the contract will effect each individual.

As a side bar, it is very easy to throw cheap shots and make sarcastic criticisms at anyone when you hide behind an alias.  As you see there are a number of posters who use there real name. I take a stand and state my opinion and it is my opinion.  The purpose of the post is to stimulate thinking and have an open dialog.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Kenneth J. Chadwick

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« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2006, 06:28:09 PM »

I still say the dispute of the horsemen is with the state and not the Johnstons. Until they get current laws changed and other laws approved to help the situation, the horsemen banging heads with the Johnstons aren't doing anybody any good.
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« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2006, 07:38:59 PM »

100% correct Stan!
The horsemen are in a terrible position but need to get something moving in the state.
The IHHA seems very disorganinzed.
Their website should be updated daily if not more often.
They should contact the press and get someone to do a story on a local trainer and show how tough this business is.
Then push home the fact that the state needs this business.
The tracks should work with the horsemen to change things in Springfield.
If you do what you always do, you get what you've always gotten.
Nothing!
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« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2006, 07:49:30 PM »

The horseman are dead in the water.......nobody cares and nobody goes......the game just sucks and is only in a downward spiral that doesn't seem to have an upside...take the crumbs or leave town there are no other choices........its a dead game laddie
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2006, 05:35:43 PM »



* If, after 60% deferment, purses generated are still insufficient to maintain 2005 purse structure, Maywood/Balmoral reserves the right to reduce purses accordingly.


Would Terry Hunt or someone on the IHHA borad please tell the viewers if the above part of the contract proposal was taken OUT of the new contact they signed?

    If this is in the contract they signed then that would mean that the purses can drop in 2006 if what is stated above happens. Am I right? Or did they sign a guarantee in the new contract that the purses cannot drop below what they are now?

   Someone needs to clarify this for the horseman. 
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #44 on: January 06, 2006, 07:35:49 PM »

Would Terry Hunt or someone on the IHHA borad please tell the viewers if the above part of the contract proposal was taken OUT of the new contact they signed?

    If this is in the contract they signed then that would mean that the purses can drop in 2006 if what is stated above happens. Am I right? Or did they sign a guarantee in the new contract that the purses cannot drop below what they are now?

   Someone needs to clarify this for the horseman. 


I saw that Terry Hunt was logged on not long ago but he didn't answer my question or doesn't know the answer. 
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #45 on: January 07, 2006, 12:23:41 AM »

Would Terry Hunt or someone on the IHHA borad please tell the viewers if the above part of the contract proposal was taken OUT of the new contact they signed?

    If this is in the contract they signed then that would mean that the purses can drop in 2006 if what is stated above happens. Am I right? Or did they sign a guarantee in the new contract that the purses cannot drop below what they are now?

   Someone needs to clarify this for the horseman. 


Nobody wants to talk about this do they? I guess nobody even knows what kind of contract they signed. When the purses drop then people will talk about what was in the contract won't they?

    I guess as long as they are racing who gives a damn what they signed and what was in the contract. If the horseman cared about the contract they signed someone would have posted it on the website for everyone to read.
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Zulu
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« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2006, 01:07:52 AM »

Dan

Here is the e/mail I received, it doesn`t go into specifics but it seems the target remains.


IHHA SIGNS CONTRACT WITH BALMORAL & MAYWOOD.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT!!!!

The IHHA signed a one year agreement with Balmoral and Maywood Park Race Tracks on Thursday, January 5, 2006. Racing will resume on Saturday, January 7, 2006. There will be a doubleheader with both afternoon and evening racing on Saturday.

The contract provides that the tracks defer 70% of the 2006 recapture. This amount will be recoverable only if and when legislatively approved non-pari-mutual revenue streams, such as, gaming revenues on non-live horseracing gaming become available by the end of 2012.

There is also a provision that modifies the language pertaining to the past deferrals to reflect the language in the current contract for one year only.

All other provisions of the 2005 contract remain.

Without the unity shown by the horsemen and women of Illinois the IHHA would not have been able to come to terms with the Johnston's. Your support was invaluable to the negotiations. The IHHA Board of Directors and the negotiating team thank you.

Marty Engel
President - IHHA



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« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2006, 02:38:36 AM »

It's not the greatest deal but its the best we could do. I think it was really starting to hurt the little guys. The boards vote was 15 to 0 to accept this offer. Thanks for your support.

A board member
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Jeepers
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« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2006, 03:17:52 AM »

Sounds to me like the Johnstons are no longer waiving the small percentage of recapture they used to waive - 10 percent, was it?

Also, it is said there are no dumb questions, but mine must be because I've asked these a few times and gotten no answer:

WILL THE STATE RETURN TO REIMBURSING THE RECAPTURE IF ITS BUDGET PICTURE IMPROVES? and,

WHAT, IF ANY, IS ITS LEGAL OBLIGATION in this regard?

Also, amid all the talk of uniting to lobby Springfield, what are the two or three top objectives: Slots? More riverboat revenue? Recapture reimbursement? Rewrite the OTB and/or recapture laws? Other?

For all the talk of rallying on the Capitol steps, I haven't seen (unless I missed or passed over it) much talk of an AGENDA, any STRATEGY for achieving it, or even mention of the names of legislators who might be called upon to assist.

Does this business HAVE friends in high places? What can be done to cultivate them?





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Dan Nance
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« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2006, 03:19:36 AM »

[quote author=JDakuras link=Proposal Goal: Maintain 2005 purse structure in 2006


* Maywood/Balmoral will defer up to 60% of 2006 recapture; the additional 10% deferred to be recovered as above;

* If, after 60% deferment, purses generated are still insufficient to maintain 2005 purse structure, Maywood/Balmoral reserves the right to reduce purses accordingly.

Quote

OK, instead of 60% they defered 70% of the 2006 recapture. They deferred it, they didn't drop 70% of recapture. Big difference dropping and deferring.

  My question wasn't answered. Is the above part where it says " If, after 70% now deferment, purses generated are still insufficient to maintain 2005 purse structure, Maywood/Balmoral reserves the right to reduce purses accordingly " still in the contract they signed? If this is in the contract that means there is a chance the purses could drop if the above happens. So, what was gained by signing a contract? Nothing but an extra 10% deferred.

  The IHHA accomplished nothing sitting out 6 days from what I see. There is a chance that purses could drop and alot of money will have to be paid back someday. You call this a victory?  
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Zulu
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« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2006, 10:07:30 AM »

It's not the greatest deal but its the best we could do. I think it was really starting to hurt the little guys. The boards vote was 15 to 0 to accept this offer. Thanks for your support.

A board member

What offer? you seem to know alot about JD and snitches he should not have trusted in another thread
then when we actually require a loooong explaination we get this.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2006, 03:26:33 PM »




Since not everyone on the forum could be in attendance at to day's meeting, I was sent numerous emails asking if I would post their latest offer to the horsemen. I am hopeful somebody reading this proposal who is skilled in negotiations, might put their input up here stating the good and bad points of this. Thanks. Here is the Johnston's offer sent to the IHHA late last night.

Proposal Goal: Maintain 2005 purse structure in 2006



* Maywood/Balmoral will defer up to 60% of 2006 recapture; the additional 10% deferred to be recovered as above;

* If, after 60% deferment, purses generated are still insufficient to maintain 2005 purse structure, Maywood/Balmoral reserves the right to reduce purses accordingly.


Terry Hunt, why won't you answer my question? Is the above in the 2006 contract. A simple YES or NO.
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Richard Breth
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« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2006, 03:58:51 PM »

Terry Hunt, why won't you answer my question? Is the above in the 2006 contract. A simple YES or NO.

Didnt he say he prefered to let the IHHA leadership communicate details to the horsemen.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2006, 04:13:02 PM »

Didnt he say he prefered to let the IHHA leadership communicate details to the horsemen.

The signed contract should be no big secret to anyone so why can't I get an answer to this simple question? What's the difference who answers the question with a simple YES or NO?

     No board members are going to come on this site and explain anything. But, goofs will bring the site up at horseman's meetings.

    If the above is in the 2006 contract then that would mean that the purses could drop even more in 2006. I want someone to tell the viewers if it's in the contract or not. What's the big deal to do so unless they no it's a bad deal having that clause in the contract and don't want to admit it to the viewers.
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Richard Breth
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« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2006, 05:07:55 PM »

The signed contract should be no big secret to anyone so why can't I get an answer to this simple question? What's the difference who answers the question with a simple YES or NO?

     No board members are going to come on this site and explain anything. But, goofs will bring the site up at horseman's meetings.

    If the above is in the 2006 contract then that would mean that the purses could drop even more in 2006. I want someone to tell the viewers if it's in the contract or not. What's the big deal to do so unless they no it's a bad deal having that clause in the contract and don't want to admit it to the viewers.


Dont think this site is the official communication medium of the IHHA.

The IHHA horsemen will see the contract when IHHA officers shows it to them. Then some one will probaly post a answer here for every one else.
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Chitown Stan
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« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2006, 05:41:59 PM »

Dont think this site is the official communication medium of the IHHA.

LOL, neither is the IHHA website obviously
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Richard Breth
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« Reply #56 on: January 07, 2006, 05:52:00 PM »

LOL, neither is the IHHA website obviously

Every one likes to poke fun at it. A computer savvy critic also IHHA member with time on there hands to criticize should volunteer there time to keep it more up to moment. 
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« Reply #57 on: January 08, 2006, 01:49:13 PM »

The only website more out of date than IHHA is Hawthorne.
Last summer it took about two weeks into the meet until they posted anything about harness racing.
Their replays were never posted on a timely basis.
Good track for the horsemen and I love to bet it.
But I won't go there live.
Wonder if that AC unit is functioning?
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« Reply #58 on: January 08, 2006, 02:13:44 PM »

It takes all of 3 minutes to update on the IHHA website what is going on. Richard, if you don't have time to properly mantain the website, why even have it?
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #59 on: January 08, 2006, 06:15:03 PM »

Would Terry Hunt or someone on the IHHA borad please tell the viewers if the above part of the contract proposal was taken OUT of the new contact they signed?

    If this is in the contract they signed then that would mean that the purses can drop in 2006 if what is stated above happens. Am I right? Or did they sign a guarantee in the new contract that the purses cannot drop below what they are now?

   Someone needs to clarify this for the horseman. 


From the looks of Saturday's handle be prepared for the purses to drop because no doubt they left that clause I'm trying to get an answer on in the 2006 contract.
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