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Author Topic: No Live Racing Hurts The Johnston's More Than You Think!  (Read 3664 times)
John Doe
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« on: January 02, 2006, 02:06:17 PM »

   

 I keep reading all over the forum that the Johnston’s want a strike and they are still making money via simulcasting all while the horsemen are broke and hurting. In reality, this is simply not the case. Do they make money via simulcasting…of course they do. But, how much additional money would they be making if they had live harness racing to go along with their simulcasting? The answer is plenty.

     I just want to point out to my horsemen friends that the picture looks bleak right now, but don’t think that you are not hurting the Johnston’s by the current work stoppage, because you most certainly are. The point is very clear: when there is not any live racing, the Johnston’s do lose money, period. Weather or not one believes it becomes another issue.

     I’ll concede the fact that the Johnston’s are able to stay afloat with the simulcasting revenue they receive while the live product is shut down, but a work stoppage does cost them plenty….so don’t fool yourself into thinking otherwise. Yes, they are able to stay afloat while the horsemen do not get anything but if a horsemen takes his show on the road, they can level up the playing field, and in some cases, gain an tremendous advantage by racing for larger purses than they would be racing for in Chicago, had a work stoppage not occurred.

     To me, this is like taking a negative situation and turning it into a positive one.  Don't let the Johnston's dictate your finances or job stability. And don't wait for the work stoppage to end either. You are in control of your own destiny so take the bull by the horns and ply your trade in another racing jurisdiction. Do what is best for you during the work stoppage by racing elsewhere and enabling better financial stability for your owners and family. The really is no other alternative choice.   

     The point I am trying to make is, don’t always say the Johnston’s are making money while we starve and so fourth. That is just not the case. Just think about how much money the Johnston’s are losing by not offering the horsemen a fair contract and by not having live racing. It’s a pretty penny and don't let anyone try to convince you differently.

     For whatever its worth, I think the horsemen are not is as bad of a bargaining position as the Johnston’s want them to believe they are. I hope the horsemen keep doing what they are doing. Sooner or later the state of Illinois will step in and something will get done. If not, Hawthorne will race this year and by the looks of their stakes schedule, that meet should be a great one for the horsemen.

     Maybe, just maybe the IRB will think twice about allocating racing dates in the not too distant future. I could see a work stoppage happening from a mile away. Either the IRB simply does not give a shit or they are even dumber than I thought. Go ahead and give the Johnston's more dates next year, you'll see the same thing happen all over again. Like I said before, whomever allocated the 2006 dates should be relieved of his/her duty at the IRB, possibly the entire staff.

     I tip my hat to the IHHA board along with horsemen all over the state for finally taking a stand. The last IHHA meeting had most horsemen unifying like I have never seen before. That’s a good thing, and keep up the good work and hopefully the horsemen will prevail. I wish the best for the horsemen during these trying times. Stick together, stay strong, and unity will eventually win out. I'll see everyone at tomorrows meeting. Good luck and Happy New Year to all.


PS. To the guy on the other thread that said tomorrows IHHA meeting is not necessary, I totally disagree. This IHHA board is strong and appears to be doing everything right by holding meetings to keep their membership informed. What is so wrong with that, I ask?

Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras
(A UNLV Runnin Rebel For Life)   
« Last Edit: January 02, 2006, 02:15:05 PM by JDakuras » Report to moderator   Logged

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Dan Nance
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« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2006, 02:36:12 PM »

Joe

        In my opinion I don't think a meeting every week is necessary. The IHHA can keep the horseman informed through their website.

        What the horseman should be doing is looking for some other place to race like you suggested instead of sitting around thinking this will end soon.

        What is the purpose for these meetings every week? To try and convince the horseman to accept a deal that's not going to benefit them now or in the furture. Or to be given promises that will never come true? I believe by now the horseman know where things stand as far as a new contract goes, so what purpose are any more meetings going to serve until the Johnston's decide to give the horseman a fair deal and what they really deserve? 
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fineline
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« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2006, 02:43:00 PM »

That does mean they lose as much as you say most gamblers will bet anyway .Have you ever been to and otb when the meadowlands was not raciing at nite like a ghost town expect on the weekend people will find other tracks tp bet .the otb will still get the money only at other tracks .
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2006, 03:09:58 PM »

Joe

        In my opinion I don't think a meeting every week is necessary. The IHHA can keep the horseman informed through their website.

        What the horseman should be doing is looking for some other place to race like you suggested instead of sitting around thinking this will end soon.

        What is the purpose for these meetings every week? To try and convince the horseman to accept a deal that's not going to benefit them now or in the furture. Or to be given promises that will never come true? I believe by now the horseman know where things stand as far as a new contract goes, so what purpose are any more meetings going to serve until the Johnston's decide to give the horseman a fair deal and what they really deserve? 


And, the more meetings they have the more there will be nothing but a alot of screaming in the room between some horseman. Duncan Price and Brad Moffitt will make sure that starts happening.

    If any IHHA board member brings the word " Slots " up again someone should shove an apple in their mouth to shut them up. 
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kellytuc
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« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2006, 04:21:21 PM »

According to an earlier post, the Johnstons closed themselves down last night when they told everyone there was going to be no simulcasting at night.
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324
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« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2006, 07:38:34 PM »

by striking we are hurting ourselves a lot more than we are hurting the tracks. when we don't race they keep all the simulcast money. we don't get a penny. i don't think they had any intention on racing, did anyone go and try to fill out your 2006 stall application?  they didn't have any!! does that tell you anything.....
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kellytuc
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« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2006, 07:55:26 PM »

by striking we are hurting ourselves a lot more than we are hurting the tracks. when we don't race they keep all the simulcast money. we don't get a penny. i don't think they had any intention on racing, did anyone go and try to fill out your 2006 stall application?  they didn't have any!! does that tell you anything.....

324,
You must be the biggest idiot on this forum!  I think that the horsemen may get more!  Why else would the tracks close their simulcasting last night when there were two tracks to simulcast. 
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324
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« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2006, 08:05:16 PM »

how do the horseman get anything?
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twinkiethekid
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« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2006, 08:13:27 PM »

THE HORSEMEN DONT GET A THING BY NOT RACING. THAT IS WHY LIKE THIS GUY SAID, GO RACE SOMEPLACE ELSE. MAKE THE JOHNSONS LOSE MORE MONEY BY NOT HAVING ANY LIVE PRODUCT AND ONLY SIMULCASTING. I BET NOT 2 MANY PEOPLE WILL SHOW UP FOR SIMULCASTING WHEN U CAN BET RIGHT AT HOME IN FRONT OF YOUR COMPUTER WHERE YOUR MONEY DONT HIT THE TRACK. THATS ALLS THE HORSEMN NEED TO DO. IF U WANNA BET, DO IT AT HOME AND OFF SHORE SO THE JOHNSONS DONT GET ANY OF THE MONEY. SEE HOW LONG THE OTB OUTLETS AND TRACKS STAY OPEN FOR SIMULCASTING WHEN U BET FROM HOME!!!
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kellytuc
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« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2006, 08:14:59 PM »

The purse account gets at least 50% of everything bet on simulcasting!
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Richard Breth
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« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2006, 08:20:30 PM »

The purse account gets at least 50% of everything bet on simulcasting!

What about if there was just two 3rd rate tracks open for simulcast and it cost money to keep your facility open.
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TC
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« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2006, 08:25:14 PM »

The purse account gets at least 50% of everything bet on simulcasting!
...and all that is doing is paying down the amount the track will recapture from the horsemen over 2006 the way I understand it.  One thing is for sure; the whole situation is very confusing.  Also, how much money (if any) do the horsemen owe the track right now ?  I hate to see the horsemen suffer, but there is no way honest horsemen can make ends meet much less carve out a decent living racing for $1,500, much less $2,900.  They should start charging admission ($3-$5) at all northern IL OTBs and diverting the proceeds into the purse account immediately.  TC
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twinkiethekid
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« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2006, 08:30:44 PM »

What about if there was just two 3rd rate tracks open for simulcast and it cost money to keep your facility open.

THAT WOULD BE GREAT TO BECAUZ THE JOHNSONS WOULD LOSE EVEN MORE MONEY BECAUZ NOBODY WOULD BET ON THE TWO 3RD RATE TRACKS. ANY OTHER TRACKS U COULD BET FROM YOUR HOME COMPUTER. THE MONEY DONT HIT THE TRACKS AND THE JOHNSONS DONT GET ANY. I THINK ALOT OF PEOPLE DO THIS NOWADAYS AND DURING THE STRIKE THE OTB OUTLETS ARE NOT GOING 2 BE REAL BUSY. TO MANY PEOPLE TODAY ENJOY STAYING HOME AND BETTING FROM HOME AND WHEN THE HEAR ABOUT A STRIKE, THEY WILL STAY AWAY COMPLETELY. THERE ARE THE DEGERENATES WHO GO EVERYDAY NO MATTER WHAT BUT MOST PEOPLE WILL HONOR A STRIKE AND NOT GO. I THINK IT REALLY WILL HURT THE SIMULCASTING $$$ TO. THE JOHNSONS BETTER SETTLE THIS THING FAST BEFORE ITS TOO LATE.
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324
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« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2006, 08:34:04 PM »

so the horsemen get money from simulcasting even when there is no live racing? i think someone is full of it! where did you get this info?
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kellytuc
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« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2006, 08:45:07 PM »

Yes they do, jerkoff!
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kellytuc
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« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2006, 08:49:22 PM »


TC,
Yes, this does pay down the amount, unless that amount gets deferred or waived to the future.
Also, according to the ihha, the Johnsons are owed nothing because of the contract.
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TC
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« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2006, 08:51:39 PM »

Yes they do, jerkoff!
kellytuc, easy there !  This situation is rough on a ton of folks and not everyone knows the "rules of the road" in the agreement between the horsemen and the tracks.  Why don't you directly quote the rule regarding the sptits (or hyperlink it) so the readers can see for themselves.  I'd expect a comment directed at some more veteran posters, but a newbie poster needs you to enlighten him, so do so if you could please.  Thanks in advance.  TC
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darth vader
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« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2006, 08:55:39 PM »

everyone knows  that Joe  d  hates the johnstons  so of course he is going to try and pump you  up against them but lets  face it the only way to get anything out of them is to get the state involved   and i don't think they want to
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TC
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« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2006, 09:01:02 PM »

everyone knows  that Joe  d  hates the johnstons  so of course he is going to try and pump you  up against them but lets  face it the only way to get anything out of them is to get the state involved   and i don't think they want to
darth, your cockroach infested free meal is awaiting you at the El Cortez.  Bon appetit !  Wash it down with a bottle of Night Train or Thunderbird and give the leftovers to a bum in Naked City near the Stratosphere as your good deed to start out 2006...and Happy New Year.  TC
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« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2006, 09:03:43 PM »

kellytuc, easy there !  This situation is rough on a ton of folks and not everyone knows the "rules of the road" in the agreement between the horsemen and the tracks.  Why don't you directly quote the rule regarding the sptits (or hyperlink it) so the readers can see for themselves.  I'd expect a comment directed at some more veteran posters, but a newbie poster needs you to enlighten him, so do so if you could please.  Thanks in advance.  TC

thanks tc, just trying to learn so i can voice my opinions, fairly new to harness racing
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2006, 09:30:36 PM »

There are 2 tracks running tonight I'll bet the OTB's are slammed with people just dieing to bet on Northfield and Pompano.

     " IT'S A DEAD GAME LADDIE "
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TC
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« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2006, 09:43:14 PM »

...and darth, please show me where Joe D said one bad thing about the Johnstons of late, much less at the start of this thread.  Joe D made a direct fact that the Johnstons are LOSING money w/o live live racing.  Please pay better attention when you start with the smarmy commentary.  Also, go back and (re)read where JJ came up to JD at the Balmoral Christmas party and spoke to Joe.  Thanks, TC
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darth vader
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« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2006, 09:49:08 PM »

Tc aka Joe d or maybe even tw  your  a  sick person if you know how to read  all i  said is  facts the  Joe  d  doesn't like them  and that wasn't  bad as for you you need to grow up  and get  a  life  because the only  way  for the horsemen to win is  with the  states help   and i f  me telling the truth upsets  you then i don't know  what else to  say why  are you so mad you must need  anger management classes  stop and really think about it i told the truth and yet that upset you  get help
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twinkiethekid
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« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2006, 09:52:19 PM »

TC & JOE D. & TOM W. DONT KNOW IF U GUYS KNOW ITOR NOT  BUT.

DARTH VADER ===JACK HEDEGUIS
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darth vader
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« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2006, 09:54:25 PM »

sorry  to let you  down twinke but as far as me being this  jack  guy  your  so  wrong  keep guessing  when you get it  right i let you know
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Richard Breth
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« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2006, 10:01:04 PM »

sorry  to let you  down twinke but as far as me being this  jack  guy  your  so  wrong  keep guessing  when you get it  right i let you know

Darth. I think you are half brother to Garth and Barth Gimble.

twinkiethekid === TC. I head from good source. Henry C. Robinson === TC also. TC use these names to rat what people say.
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TC
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« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2006, 10:07:35 PM »

Darth. I think you are half brother to Garth and Barth Gimble.

twinkiethekid === TC. I head from good source. Henry C. Robinson === TC also. TC use these names to rat what people say.
whatever you say Dickie.  Meet me in Area 51 for some UFo landings next week and I'll treat to lunch at the Little green Men Cafe in the desert.  Your good source is as sour as your breath from inhaling man goo all night long.  TC
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« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2006, 10:09:44 PM »

Darth. I think you are half brother to Garth and Barth Gimble.

twinkiethekid === TC. I head from good source. Henry C. Robinson === TC also. TC use these names to rat what people say.
...do you mean you GIVE "head" to a good source ?  ...a good source of what, the 10ccs of man protein you crave many times daily ?  Get a clue then get a life Dickie !  TC
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kellytuc
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« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2006, 10:21:35 PM »


Tc
The splits are easy to understand 75% Tracks 25% purses.
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Richard Breth
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« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2006, 10:24:27 PM »

Darth

An other thing I heard 3rd hand. TC hated the "ignore" button. The thought anyone could ignore anything written by the great TC.

Think about it Darth. twinkie = Henry = TC = banned trolls like Bob Kahn. Is it normal for so many "different" individuls to share the same self loathing homophobic imagry and attitude in so many posts?
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Richard Breth
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« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2006, 10:25:00 PM »

Tc
The splits are easy to understand 75% Tracks 25% purses.

That is wrong.
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kellytuc
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« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2006, 02:37:31 AM »


I admit I haven't looked at the splits for about six years, but I haven't heard of them changing!  And six years ago, everything that was bet on Maywood or Balmoral from an OTB parlor was split 75-25 or worse, with the lions share going to the management. 
Ill tell you what, if Im wrong Richard, then Ill tell everyone what broken down former trainer/driver I am and if your wrong you have to reveal who you are to TC and Co.
What do you say, Richard?  You come on here like you know everything, are you willing to make that bet?  I bet your not, because I'm right and you know it!  Remeber 75-25 or worse.  Are you in?
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Chitown Stan
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« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2006, 03:00:08 AM »

Once again, you have to ask yourselves by negotiating Recapture and splits, exactly how much better will it get? There was a post on here a while back saying if recapture was renegotiated to the horsemans way that it would only raise purses like $150 a race??

Hey, let me tell you all something. The Johnstons own Maywood and Balmoral Park and can do anything the hell they want and have proven it time and time again. If you think not having live racing hurts them your all wrong. I guarentee you they aren't struggling to pay their bils just like RTP said. The horsemen's only hope is take it up with the Politicians. Thats the only way I see it.
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Richard Breth
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« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2006, 06:04:38 AM »

I admit I haven't looked at the splits for about six years, but I haven't heard of them changing!  And six years ago, everything that was bet on Maywood or Balmoral from an OTB parlor was split 75-25 or worse, with the lions share going to the management. 
Ill tell you what, if Im wrong Richard, then Ill tell everyone what broken down former trainer/driver I am and if your wrong you have to reveal who you are to TC and Co.
What do you say, Richard?  You come on here like you know everything, are you willing to make that bet?  I bet your not, because I'm right and you know it!  Remeber 75-25 or worse.  Are you in?

IRB report doresnt say the split for live harness races at Balmoral and Maywood only. Cant confoirm or refute your number. Only total at OTBs which is no 75-25. How about tell us the source of your information with supporting numbers. Total handle percentages on various wagers et cetera.
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Richard Breth
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« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2006, 02:52:32 PM »

Read the IRB report again. Thers not way to see OTB splits for bets on Maywood and Balmoral only. Theres some things to see.

OTB Split between track commisions and purses is 40% purses for all bets all breeds. For Illinois live races it 34% purses all breeds. Might be lower for harness only? Highre ratio live Vs simulcats wagers than tbreds. Maybe even kellytucs 25%. More detail needed than IRB report that Joe D says is lies anyway to make firm numbers.

"Equal split" dollar figure for harness horsemen looks somehere from $2.6 millions and $3.5 millions a year. Terry Hunts estimte at 4320 races makes $601 to $810 extra a race.
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