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Author Topic: PETITION  (Read 1814 times)
john
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« on: January 01, 2006, 12:13:01 PM »

THERE NEEDS TO BE A PETITION TO THE GONERNORS OFFICE TO STOP OTB'S THAT ARE OWNED BY THE MANAGEMENT OR HAVE OWNERSHIP BY BALMORAL PARK AND MAYWOOD PARK TO CEASE OPERATIONS IMMEDIATELY.

THERE ALSO NEEDS TO BE A PETITION TO THE GOVERNORS OFFICE TO IMMEDIATELY OPEN HAWTHORNE RACE COURSE FOR HARNESS RACING NOW. HAWTHORNE HAS A CONTRACT WITH US AND MUST FILL THE VOID THE BALMORAL AND MAYWOOD ENTITIES  HAVE CAST UPON US AGAIN.
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fineline
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« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2006, 12:19:59 PM »

I have been saying that since the last strike .Nobody wanted to listen No live racing no OTBS
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Thomas Graham
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« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2006, 12:22:53 PM »

Sorry, Hawthorne CAN'T take over the "vacated" sulky dates since there are some 600 T-breds wintering there with nowhere to train in advance of the 2/24 NJC opening.

For this you can blame the NJC for ruining SPT when they coverted to an auto track and knocked down their barn area.

Can't move the winter training/spring meet to AP since it's not winter-ready in the stable area, so that's not an option.

It's BML/MAY or nothing (the latter is the better option from what I gather).

Enjoy the Big M and Dover and Freehold, etc., that's all there's going to be for awhile IMHO.

Good luck to all and I do feel for the horsemen who don't have the option of going elsewhere.

Happy New Year,
TJG --- not the trainer
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Zulu
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« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2006, 02:27:34 PM »

Will anyone else be boycotting the OTB and simulcast wagering locations?
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2006, 03:25:03 PM »

Sorry, Hawthorne CAN'T take over the "vacated" sulky dates since there are some 600 T-breds wintering there with nowhere to train in advance of the 2/24 NJC opening.

For this you can blame the NJC for ruining SPT when they coverted to an auto track and knocked down their barn area.

Can't move the winter training/spring meet to AP since it's not winter-ready in the stable area, so that's not an option.

It's BML/MAY or nothing (the latter is the better option from what I gather).

Enjoy the Big M and Dover and Freehold, etc., that's all there's going to be for awhile IMHO.

Good luck to all and I do feel for the horsemen who don't have the option of going elsewhere.

Happy New Year,
TJG --- not the trainer

They turn Sportsman's Park into an auto track.....so harness racing suffers.

     600 t-breds need a place to stable for the winter.....so harness racing suffers again and they lose the winter Hawthorne harness dates.

     The IHHA agrees to recapture years ago.....so harness racing suffers.

     Off track wagering hurts the horseman......so harness racing suffers.

     The IRB issues bad dates......so harness racing suffers.

     Same old story year after year!!
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kellytuc
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« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2006, 03:54:38 PM »

Good point, Dan.

I still think Hawthorne could race harness horses when their not racing t-breds.
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bobcat
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« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2006, 04:51:17 PM »

Where's the petition? I'll sign
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Chitown Stan
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« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2006, 04:54:32 PM »

John, with all do respect, I don't think a petition would do any good. I think politicians will be more intimidated with 40 - 50,000 people on their doorstep as apposed to a piece of paper. If we are going to turn this thing around, lets turn this thing around the right way. Lets not half ass it.
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bobcat
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« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2006, 05:03:07 PM »

Stan,       When do we do this?  Is there a best time to show up with many busloads of people in SPR ?  ,because I agree wholeheartedly!!!
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Chitown Stan
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« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2006, 05:14:47 PM »

It has to be an organized effort coordinated by Marty Engel himself. We can't show up with just 300 people because it would never work. You have to get I would say at least 20,000 people there to have any chance at your message getting through. The first step I would think would be to organize a list of everybody that has anything to do with harness racing. It's easy to say that 50,000 people have a say in the sport, but its time to prove it to Springfield. Once you get that list together, call everyone of them people and if they don't already know, inform them of the situation that their livelyhoods are in. You should have no problem I would think getting everyones attention being nothing should be more important then feeding your familys. Then Organize the time, organize the transportation, and be there at the statehouse. Make signs, do whatever it takes. Be prepared to be there a while. Whether it takes a day or a month, we have to do this. Power by numbers is the only way to accomplish our goals. And we stay on the statehouse lawn until we get what we want, period. This is the only way I see getting anything done.
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2006, 05:27:27 PM »

It has to be an organized effort coordinated by Marty Engel himself. We can't show up with just 300 people because it would never work. You have to get I would say at least 20,000 people there to have any chance at your message getting through. The first step I would think would be to organize a list of everybody that has anything to do with harness racing. It's easy to say that 50,000 people have a say in the sport, but its time to prove it to Springfield. Once you get that list together, call everyone of them people and if they don't already know, inform them of the situation that their livelyhoods are in. You should have no problem I would think getting everyones attention being nothing should be more important then feeding your familys. Then Organize the time, organize the transportation, and be there at the statehouse. Make signs, do whatever it takes. Be prepared to be there a while. Whether it takes a day or a month, we have to do this. Power by numbers is the only way to accomplish our goals. And we stay on the statehouse lawn until we get what we want, period. This is the only way I see getting anything done.

Stan,

An interesting thought, indeed.

However, while there may be 40-50k INVOLVED in harness racing, I highly doubt that many depend on it for their livelihood.  I would put the number somewhere around 1-2k.  I would find it hard to believe that owners, who are employed elsewhere, would abandon their primary employment just to sit on the State lawn.

The petition and a strong strike/boycott is very reasonable, and should be done immediately.

Best,
EW
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2006, 05:33:52 PM »

John,

I think you've got the right idea here.  Let's put it together.

What do you all think should be the main ideas put forth in a petition?  The end of recapture?  Even splilts?  No simulcast during strikes?  Sound off so we can write this up immediately.

An online version can be hosted, which will then be translated into paper copy if we can generate the correct interest.

Let's hear it.

E-mail any personal ideas or things that you don't want on here to chicagoharness@gmail.com  I've set this up just for this petition.

Best,
EW
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Chitown Stan
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« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2006, 05:41:12 PM »

Guys, the problem with petitions is the signatures of unregistered Illinois voters. Its easy to weed out damn near half the signatures on a petition due to either unregisterd voters or non citizens of the state or sigs that are just plain made up. Believe me, its better for a politician to see real living human beings at their doorstep then some piece of paper. Like I said, if your going to change this thing around, its going to take a lot more then a signature on a piece of paper.
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2006, 05:45:17 PM »

Guys, the problem with petitions is the signatures of unregistered Illinois voters. Its easy to weed out damn near half the signatures on a petition due to either unregisterd voters or non citizens of the state or sigs that are just plain made up. Believe me, its better for a politician to see real living human beings at their doorstep then some piece of paper. Like I said, if your going to change this thing around, its going to take a lot more then a signature on a piece of paper.

It all has to start somewhere, Stan.  I agree that physical presence far exceeds any petition.  But, it all has to eminate from something.

Best,
EW
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Chitown Stan
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« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2006, 05:47:41 PM »

Edward, you are a first class hypocrite. You sit there behind your computer and knowingly bet money into offshore accounts that aren't going into the pools, and yet you come here and claim to be the horsemen's friend. I strongly recommend that nobody on this forum participates in Edwards little e-mail thing. He is taking money out of horsemen's pocket by betting into offshore pools.

Edward, I hope you enjoy your rebates pal while most of the horsemen now wonder where their next meals are coming from.
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2006, 06:14:10 PM »

Edward, you are a first class hypocrite. You sit there behind your computer and knowingly bet money into offshore accounts that aren't going into the pools, and yet you come here and claim to be the horsemen's friend. I strongly recommend that nobody on this forum participates in Edwards little e-mail thing. He is taking money out of horsemen's pocket by betting into offshore pools.

Edward, I hope you enjoy your rebates pal while most of the horsemen now wonder where their next meals are coming from.

A) The vast majority of my handle goes IN the pools, Stan.
B) Since mid-August, only 18% of my handle has been bet on Chicago harness.
C) I live in the far NW suburbs, and the closest non-dump OTB is 30 minutes away -- with Maywood clocking at 45 with no traffic.  I'm not making the drive everyday, just to pay a surcharge.
D) It's ILLEGAL for me to bet on the Illinois product through an American source to do commerce law.

Know the situation before you get on a high horse, Stan.  I support the industry, but my location doesn't yield me with a bunch of options.  I can illegally bet with a false address, drive 30 minutes to pay a 2.5% fee, drive 45 minutes to pay a 1.5% fee AND admission, or I can pool most of my money from the comfort of my home -- and make a rebate.

I can tell you -- with certainty, that the purse account has benefitted MORE from my playing with the rebate than if I was to even drive to Maywood.  Since including rebates in my wagering, my handle has increased more than 900%.  I realize that the 1.5% that goes to the purse account through a pooled rebate shop isn't quite what the purses would receive if I was playing on track -- but I wouldn't be betting NEARLY the same the money.

Stan, you seem to be very loving of the industry.  I really, really appreciate that.  I have many friends in and around the industry, and hope only that in blossoms more and more.  BUT, on these matters regarding the shops, we are at a total disagreement.  All I can say -- is that the purse account gets more money from me betting at home.

Best,
EW
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fineline
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« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2006, 06:43:41 PM »

40 thousnad to go to Springfield .You would have a hard time getting 500 to go to a harness on a weekday.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2006, 06:56:20 PM »

Good point, Dan.

I still think Hawthorne could race harness horses when their not racing t-breds.

They could race when the t-breds are down but it WON'T happen as long as they need Hawthorne to stable at in the winter for two months.

    Harness racing has always taken a back seat to the t-breds in Chicago. Whatever the t-breds need they get. They need a place to train and stable at for two months so it's too bad harness racing, NO more great winter doubleheaders and great racing at Hawthorne in Jan. & Feb.

    Case in point. If Balmoral got winter( Jan. & Feb.) t-bred dates and harness racing was down for 2 months they would kick the harness horseman right off the backside with no place to go so they could have racing in Jan. & Feb. But, not so at Hawthorne so that the harness horseman could race again there in Jan. & Feb.

    And, forget about any Petition because nothing will matter. Sit back and suffer until they work out some bullshit deal that will benefit the Johnston's and leave the horseman busted as always.
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Thomas Graham
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« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2006, 08:11:35 PM »

The difference is that in harness racing, a large percentage of horses are raced "off the farm" --- the same is not true in Thoroughbred racing.  If you kick the mostly IL-bred horses that remain on the HAW backside out, when the meet opens in Feb., none of the horses will be in raceshape.

Back in the day, SPT was the winter stabling track while HAW raced the doubleheaders, but since there is no SPT --- HAW picked up the winter stabling.

While I agree it's a bad situation that the dates can't be reassigned, the simply cannot be reassigned to HAW because you/we want them to be.

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« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2006, 04:31:55 AM »

Pardon me, but I'm still uncertain what it is in the full-card simulcast law that allows the state to WELSH on recapture reimbursement - or conversely, imposes no legal obligation.

What a house of cards for both parties, management and horsemen.

Also, lots of states are going to run surpluses now. Is Illinois among them? If so, then by political will or legal obligation, cannot the recapture be reimbursed going forward?

However, if I were a legislator, in ANY state, and were being lobbied for relief by a racing industry apparently rife with illegal medication, I might move on to the NEXT interest group seeking my favors.

Sorry. I want racing back, too.

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fineline
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« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2006, 07:56:06 AM »

When the otbs are operating with no live racing I asssume the money from the horseman share go toward the recapture.correct .That means all the money earned when on strike goes to racetracks for moneys owed..
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