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Author Topic: Observations and a story  (Read 2308 times)
Buffaloboy
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« on: June 24, 2007, 08:59:34 PM »

Folks, after a two week hiatus, I returned to Yonkers Raceway last night. With me, making their harness racing debut were my parents and seven year old nephew. I didnt handicap cause they were picking a horse on their favorite name in that race.

1) FINALLY ... The good news is since my last visit there, Yonkers put a grill outside and had burgers, grilled chicken sandwiches and a 3-piece bbq chicken plate. Plus snack sized chips and pretzels, a 1/4 lb pre-packaged potato salad and bottles water and cans of Pepsi products. The bad news was it was too close to the walkway leading to the shuttle bus, a cheeseburger and 16 oz bottled water was $7.86 which included tax and the trackside area along the new casino building remains closed.

2) TV's ... Yonkers had their usual eight TV's outside. Four showed the Yonkers card going on just 100 feet behind them, three had The Meadowlands and one had Northfield. I can understand two for Yonkers so people could watch the probables and odds as they are online to bet. I can understanmd The Meadowlands because they are the top track but Northfield Park had a zero interest for people outside. People wanted Vernon for the sire stakes and you also had Hawthorne.

3) Tony Morgan ... I have nothing against the guy and I know he only drives there on weekends but I thought he would become more of a factor at Yonkers

4) Burke & Virgil Morgan ... Is it me or did they run horses at like 23 tracks yesterday?

5) 1:55.2 ... that was the slowest time at Yonkers last night

6) Tim Tetrick ... we addressed him in another post but I will say it again ... Stay clean, stay healthy and the best to you.

7) Greg Keidel ... Whatever you do, please do not tell us you had 14 horses and thats why you broke the Cleveland Classic into two divisions?. Allowing 14 horses was stupid. At best you had five legitimately very good horses and the rest absolutely did not belong there. The only drivers you attrracted were Daniel Dube and Greg Grismore who was back home to visit his mom. Neither of them are in the top 25 in wins and the only reason they are even in the top 15 in earnings is because they race at slots tracks. The strongest hand you had to play was those five horses with three of the others to sacrifice, slugging it out for the $175,000. You blew it man.

8) 4500 ... other message boards put that as the crowd at Northfield park last night. John Pawlak of the USTA called that "near-capacity". Yikes.

9) NYSS ... Ten races this weekend. Four went to Jimmy Morrill and Two went to Bouchard

10) Batavia ... For those inmterested, they open in a few weeks and granted this info is a bit old at this point but as of April 30th their purse account was just $927,650 and that was down from $1,091,526 atthe same time last year. Batavia March VTL revenue for purses was just $178,173

On a personal note, last night, my parents and nephew picked :
1st: Ohoka OTee N (4th with Tony Morgan)
2nd: Pansexual (1st with Pat Berry)
3rd: Doctor Rich (1st with Alan Davis)
4th: Du Wah Diddy (4th with Pat Berry)
5th: Feets of Magic (3rd with Jeff Gregory)
6th: Aces Over (2nd with Bouchard)

We left after the 6th race, my nephew was asleep in the back of the car before we were out of the parking lot and he called me this morning asking when we could go back cause he liked it cause he could see the horses better
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njhorseman
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« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2007, 09:22:08 PM »


7) Greg Keidel ... Whatever you do, please do not tell us you had 14 horses and thats why you broke the Cleveland Classic into two divisions?. Allowing 14 horses was stupid. At best you had five legitimately very good horses and the rest absolutely did not belong there. The only drivers you attrracted were Daniel Dube and Greg Grismore who was back home to visit his mom. Neither of them are in the top 25 in wins and the only reason they are even in the top 15 in earnings is because they race at slots tracks. The strongest hand you had to play was those five horses with three of the others to sacrifice, slugging it out for the $175,000. You blew it man.


Buffalo:

You shouldn't be criticizing track officials when you don't have your facts straight. The Cleveland Classic is not an invitational, where the race secretary can choose which horses he invites to race, it is a stakes race open to 3yo colts and geldings whose owners have made the necessary sustaining payments and then paid the declaration fee to drop the horse in the box.

41 horses were eligible to the race after the last stakes sustaining payment was made in February, and any one of those 41 could have raced had their owners chosen to pay the $3,000 declaration fee. If 38 of the 41 couldn't beat a fat man in a race, it doesn't matter. If the stakes and declaration fees were paid, the horses would have raced.

Here's the list of eligibles:

http://www.hambletonian.org/downloads/07Clev%20Classic%2023.pdf
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AmyHollar
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« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2007, 10:22:32 PM »

Facts?  That would be a new concept to him. doh

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Buffaloboy
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« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2007, 10:27:36 PM »

And you should know that it was stupid to have two divisions of that race PERIOD! Most of those horses in the Cleveland Classic had ZERO business paying entry fees, being in that entry box or in that race. Its about damned
time that people served and protected the best interests of harness racing and the best interests of harness racing
were NOT served last night at Northfield in the Cleveland Classic. This wasnt an issue of one super dominant horse in a group of otherwise very good horses. This was an issue of far INFERIOR horses where they just didnt belong

I dont want to hear if you pay the declaration fee, the sustaining fee or whatever fee that you get to drop your horse into the entry box. Frankly, I think its preposturous and more preposturous to support it

You say 41 horses made themselves eligible, well 27 of them bailed for one reason or another. You attracted only a handful of quality horses and one out of town driver and please dont tell me Grismore makes two. This race had nominal interest for one simple reason ... $175,000, NOT $87,000.

If you are not going to have or cant have eliminations, then the proper thing to do is limit the field to the nine that Northfield normally has, tell five of them they dont make the cut, give those five back their money and go with the nine best. That is protecting the best interests of racing and I dont care what race or breed it is.

It was a stupid decision. Last I checked, Northfield Park had the race and Keidel carded it. The blame starts with them and I would saythe same thing if this was The Meadowlands, Mohegan, Yonkers or the Eastern Most Bubblesnot County Fair.

It was a stupid decision. PERIOD!
End of story.
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Buffaloboy
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« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2007, 10:39:30 PM »

Facts?  That would be a new concept to him. doh



I guess as would proper sink and toilet bowl use for you based upon what I read.

An insult coming from somebody of your ilk, reputation and record of failure is funny though ... especially considering the next time you tell the truth on anything will also just happen to be the first time.

I see *** went from making fun of your bathroom habits to outright calling you out on OHHA funds.

Geez, and I only thought you were incompetent.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2007, 10:46:17 PM by Buffaloboy » Report to moderator   Logged

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njhorseman
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« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2007, 11:28:08 PM »

And you should know that it was stupid to have two divisions of that race PERIOD! Most of those horses in the Cleveland Classic had ZERO business paying entry fees, being in that entry box or in that race. Its about damned
time that people served and protected the best interests of harness racing and the best interests of harness racing
were NOT served last night at Northfield in the Cleveland Classic. This wasnt an issue of one super dominant horse in a group of otherwise very good horses. This was an issue of far INFERIOR horses where they just didnt belong

I dont want to hear if you pay the declaration fee, the sustaining fee or whatever fee that you get to drop your horse into the entry box. Frankly, I think its preposturous and more preposturous to support it

You say 41 horses made themselves eligible, well 27 of them bailed for one reason or another. You attracted only a handful of quality horses and one out of town driver and please dont tell me Grismore makes two. This race had nominal interest for one simple reason ... $175,000, NOT $87,000.

If you are not going to have or cant have eliminations, then the proper thing to do is limit the field to the nine that Northfield normally has, tell five of them they dont make the cut, give those five back their money and go with the nine best. That is protecting the best interests of racing and I dont care what race or breed it is.

It was a stupid decision. Last I checked, Northfield Park had the race and Keidel carded it. The blame starts with them and I would saythe same thing if this was The Meadowlands, Mohegan, Yonkers or the Eastern Most Bubblesnot County Fair.

It was a stupid decision. PERIOD!
End of story.

Buffalo:

Crap. You clearly don't know the first thing about the rules of stakes races. (As you already demonstrated in your earlier comments about the Levy at Yonkers, where you kept insisting that the race was advertised as having a $200,000 purse.)

When a horse is nominated to a stakes race, that race carries a specified set of conditions, including whether the race will have heats (such as the Little Brown Jug), eliminations and a final (such as the Hambletonian), or, as in the case of the Cleveland Classic, will be a single dash, with provisions for dividing the race if  more horses entered than can be accommodated in a single race field. That set of conditions is a legal contract, which a horse owner accepts upon payment of his stakes fees. The race secretary does not have the right to unilaterally alter that contract. Every horseman who paid into that race knew the conditions (or should have known them by reading the stakes entry form). Now, if you want to argue that the conditions of the race should be rewritten for a different format, that's fine, but that can only be done before the first horse owner pays a dollar to stake his horse to that race for a particular year. It can't be done after the fact.

What arrogance for you to tell a horse owner what races he should be staking his horses to. What the hell business is it of yours, and who are you to judge whether a horse "belongs" in a particular race. When you pay to buy the horse, pay for all its training and related expenses, pay the stakes fees, you have the say where you're going to race as long as you satisfy the race conditions. If as an owner you consistently do a bad job of that you're going to go broke, but it's your prerogative to make those decisions when you're paying the bills.

By the way, if you think only 14 racing out of 41 eligible is unusual, think again. It's the norm for far fewer horses to race than are paid in. That is because the stakes payments are made months before the race, and you have no way of predicting on February 15th whether your horse is going to be fit to race on June 23.  There are 152 colts and geldings eligible to the 2007 Hambletonian. How many are going to drop in for the eliminations? 15? 20 if you're lucky? Last year only 13 horses raced in the eliminations!

 
« Last Edit: June 24, 2007, 11:36:15 PM by njhorseman » Report to moderator   Logged
Buffaloboy
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« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2007, 05:14:41 AM »

Buffalo:

Crap. You clearly don't know the first thing about the rules of stakes races. (As you already demonstrated in your earlier comments about the Levy at Yonkers, where you kept insisting that the race was advertised as having a $200,000 purse.)

When a horse is nominated to a stakes race, that race carries a specified set of conditions, including whether the race will have heats (such as the Little Brown Jug), eliminations and a final (such as the Hambletonian), or, as in the case of the Cleveland Classic, will be a single dash, with provisions for dividing the race if  more horses entered than can be accommodated in a single race field. That set of conditions is a legal contract, which a horse owner accepts upon payment of his stakes fees. The race secretary does not have the right to unilaterally alter that contract. Every horseman who paid into that race knew the conditions (or should have known them by reading the stakes entry form). Now, if you want to argue that the conditions of the race should be rewritten for a different format, that's fine, but that can only be done before the first horse owner pays a dollar to stake his horse to that race for a particular year. It can't be done after the fact.

What arrogance for you to tell a horse owner what races he should be staking his horses to. What the hell business is it of yours, and who are you to judge whether a horse "belongs" in a particular race. When you pay to buy the horse, pay for all its training and related expenses, pay the stakes fees, you have the say where you're going to race as long as you satisfy the race conditions. If as an owner you consistently do a bad job of that you're going to go broke, but it's your prerogative to make those decisions when you're paying the bills.

By the way, if you think only 14 racing out of 41 eligible is unusual, think again. It's the norm for far fewer horses to race than are paid in. That is because the stakes payments are made months before the race, and you have no way of predicting on February 15th whether your horse is going to be fit to race on June 23.  There are 152 colts and geldings eligible to the 2007 Hambletonian. How many are going to drop in for the eliminations? 15? 20 if you're lucky? Last year only 13 horses raced in the eliminations!

 


Crap is you regurgiting stakes rules and bypassing simple common sense. You want to support a play-for-pay no matter what policy and that isnt in the best interest of racing. There are times, like in the Cleveland Classic, when simple common sense dictates that horses just do not belong because they do not enhance a race, they weaken and embarrass it. Those horses just need to be filtered out to protect the sport.

You misquote me and probably intentionally so when you say I want to tell owners where they can and can not stake themselves to. Let owners stake to whatever the hell they want. As they miss their payments or back out, thats too damned bad. Once the final payments are made and the entry box is closed, if you have too many horses and you cant have eliminations or same-day heats, then take whatever amount of horses you can put behind the gate and refund the fees to the other owners.

The Cleveland Classic was a joke. You had five good horses and you split them up to run for half the money. Last I checked, the race was called the $175,000 Heineken Cleveland Classic. We didnt get that.

You call me arrogant for believing that, well last I checked, I dont see The Kentucky Derby broken into divisions and two or three horses going iunto Pimlico with a chance for a Triple Crown.

You call me arrogant. I call you shortsighted and foolish
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AmyHollar
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« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2007, 07:50:20 AM »


You call me arrogant. I call you shortsighted and foolish

I am trying to figure out why anyone with such disdain for Northfield Park still continues to care what happens at or to the track? doh

You call others foolish?  You believe rumor and spread false information.............and then you judge? BSmeter



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« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2007, 11:09:48 AM »


Crap is you regurgiting stakes rules and bypassing simple common sense. You want to support a play-for-pay no matter what policy and that isnt in the best interest of racing. There are times, like in the Cleveland Classic, when simple common sense dictates that horses just do not belong because they do not enhance a race, they weaken and embarrass it. Those horses just need to be filtered out to protect the sport.

You misquote me and probably intentionally so when you say I want to tell owners where they can and can not stake themselves to. Let owners stake to whatever the hell they want. As they miss their payments or back out, thats too damned bad. Once the final payments are made and the entry box is closed, if you have too many horses and you cant have eliminations or same-day heats, then take whatever amount of horses you can put behind the gate and refund the fees to the other owners.

The Cleveland Classic was a joke. You had five good horses and you split them up to run for half the money. Last I checked, the race was called the $175,000 Heineken Cleveland Classic. We didnt get that.

You call me arrogant for believing that, well last I checked, I dont see The Kentucky Derby broken into divisions and two or three horses going iunto Pimlico with a chance for a Triple Crown.

You call me arrogant. I call you shortsighted and foolish

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

You clearly have never owned a horse to which you have made a stake payment.  Have you EVER seen a
35-1 shot win in ANY stake race?   It happens because it's horseracing and the best horse does not
always win.   I assure you if you looked at the horse on paper that won at 35-1 you would have said the
owners had NO BUSINESS entering that horse in a stake race.

Maybe the next time you're up for a promotion and have paid your dues (in one way or another to your company)
your boss should just pick whoever he wants to give a raise/promotion to and let everyone else
(including yourself) go.

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« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2007, 11:15:04 AM »

In regard to the Kentucky Derby there are eligibility rules, in addition the stake payments.

I believe the field is limited to the TOP 20 money earners who have made their necessary payments.
That is why you don't have divisions or eliminations for that race.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2007, 03:40:20 PM »


Crap is you regurgiting stakes rules and bypassing simple common sense. You want to support a play-for-pay no matter what policy and that isnt in the best interest of racing. There are times, like in the Cleveland Classic, when simple common sense dictates that horses just do not belong because they do not enhance a race, they weaken and embarrass it. Those horses just need to be filtered out to protect the sport.

You misquote me and probably intentionally so when you say I want to tell owners where they can and can not stake themselves to. Let owners stake to whatever the hell they want. As they miss their payments or back out, thats too damned bad. Once the final payments are made and the entry box is closed, if you have too many horses and you cant have eliminations or same-day heats, then take whatever amount of horses you can put behind the gate and refund the fees to the other owners.

The Cleveland Classic was a joke. You had five good horses and you split them up to run for half the money. Last I checked, the race was called the $175,000 Heineken Cleveland Classic. We didnt get that.

You call me arrogant for believing that, well last I checked, I dont see The Kentucky Derby broken into divisions and two or three horses going iunto Pimlico with a chance for a Triple Crown.

You call me arrogant. I call you shortsighted and foolish

This might be the biggest load of horse manure I've read here in a long, long time. I'm not wasting any more of my time arguing it with you.



« Last Edit: June 25, 2007, 03:50:38 PM by njhorseman » Report to moderator   Logged
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« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2007, 06:12:49 PM »

http://
This might be the biggest load of horse manure I've read here in a long, long time. I'm not wasting any more of my time arguing it with you.




Good call NJH.  He obviously has a learning disorder-can't understand simple phrases like "stakes conditions" and the contract that is made with nomination payments. To quote a mentor of mine from long ago "You Can't Shine Shit"  Can't fix him-let it go.  Pork
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« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2007, 10:55:11 PM »

This might be the biggest load of horse manure I've read here in a long, long time. I'm not wasting any more of my time arguing it with you.





Thats fine because I believe what you have said is a load of horse manure as  well. If you want to sit there just saying, "Its a stakes payment. Its a stakes payment" and think thats the be all to end all and its right then we have nothing to discuss because I believe your position is shortsighted and wrong to do.

How you can sit there and say well as long as anybody pays the fee, they get to race the horse no matter what and we will make as many divisions as it takes no matter the size or quality of the field is beyond me. In a race like this people are looking for a champion (dead heat being the exception). They are not looking for two horses being called co-champions despite one running faster then the other.

Are you going to tell us that breaking up those 14 horses into two fields of seven and breaking up the five best horses created the best race possible? I hope not because it wasnt because what you did was weaken the quality of the race. You did not create the best product possible. If you are not going to have eliminations or have the division winners come back and run an additional heat, then the best product is to take the best eight, nine or ten horses and put them behind tha gate.

I dont care if it is Northfield Park or Belmont Park, it is wrong of a track to not have standards or limits on which horses get to race when you have a situation like this. Whether it is earning, wins, some combination of it or even flipping a coin, if you have more horses then can go behind the gate and you dont have eliminations or multiple heats, then you have to filter them out.

Its wrong to do otherwise.
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« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2007, 11:11:54 PM »

I am trying to figure out why anyone with such disdain for Northfield Park still continues to care what happens at or to the track? doh

You call others foolish?  You believe rumor and spread false information.............and then you judge? BSmeter






Well, Sweetheart. The distain for your track comes from how poorly it is run, the dozens upon dozens of your horsemen that have gotten bans or fines for all those failed tests and drug positives and all those drivers arrested, banned, kicked out without charges or caught with drugs. Oh and need I forget all those $2000 races and suspicious races and finishes. Other then that, you have a high quality track.

Do I have interest in your track? Nope, none. Havent bet it in years. However, I believe in handicapping, you should watch other tracks get to know track tendencies and quality of races, horses do ship around and drivers move around too. In the case of Ohio and Northfield, they flee. The same goes for the New England tracks who have horses come back to the NY/NJ area after the summer and Pompano who has ship up and down the east as the weather changes.

Also three times a year you do get a few quality horses who go to Northfield Park to race

Now thank me for edifying you.
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« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2007, 11:33:52 PM »

In regard to the Kentucky Derby there are eligibility rules, in addition the stake payments.

I believe the field is limited to the TOP 20 money earners who have made their necessary payments.
That is why you don't have divisions or eliminations for that race.

Exactly my point. More horses who made their payments then can reasonably race. Churchill put in a policy to provide what they feel is the 20 best eligible horses to give you the best race. You didnt have 40 horses entered and end up with two 20-horse fields each going for $1,000,000 and two horses most likely with different times calling themselves the champion

Despite the payments, they put in a policy to narrow the field to the most starters they can handle, the best of the group available and its one race for a $2,000,000 purse with one champion (unless there is a dead heat)

The most heralded race in the world does it and the Cleveland Classic cant?
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« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2007, 08:37:53 AM »

Exactly my point. More horses who made their payments then can reasonably race. Churchill put in a policy to provide what they feel is the 20 best eligible horses to give you the best race.

They didn't change the rules after horses are entered.  It is written in the stakes conditions that only the top 20 graded stakes earners can start.

If you want to lobby to change the conditions of the Cleveland Classic for next year, fine, but you can't change them retroactively.
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« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2007, 08:56:55 AM »

They didn't change the rules after horses are entered.  It is written in the stakes conditions that only the top 20 graded stakes earners can start.

If you want to lobby to change the conditions of the Cleveland Classic for next year, fine, but you can't change them retroactively.


I told him that in my second post on the thread. He just ignored it and continued his ranting.
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« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2007, 09:50:02 AM »

I told him that in my second post on the thread. He just ignored it and continued his ranting.


It a common theme with him. BSmeter
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« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2007, 10:14:11 PM »

They didn't change the rules after horses are entered.  It is written in the stakes conditions that only the top 20 graded stakes earners can start.

If you want to lobby to change the conditions of the Cleveland Classic for next year, fine, but you can't change them retroactively.



Of course not but the fact in this circumstance that Northfield Park does not have anything written to remedy the situation is the problem and it is wrong. I blame the track and the race secretary. Agaiun, doesnt matter to me if it is Northfield Park, Belmont Park or Whatever Park.

The Derby has rules to limit starters as we have mentioned. The just completed Rooney Series at Yonkers had rules for their final to limit starters. They limited it to eight starters based upon points. They had provisions to break ties for the final spot.

Yonkers wasnt going to say, oh well, we have a tie for the last spot in the Final and since we have 13 or 14 starters, we are going to just run two divisions and divide up the pot

Somebody said, that I am eliminating a potential 35-1 shot but you cant still have a long shot otherwise? Even if you do eliminate a 35-1 shot and that once in a blue moon upset, isnt it better to have a race with evenly placed horsed, no typical 3/5 shot and a handful of horses say between 2-1 and 4/1 any way.

Instead of saying, "It's the rule, damnit", I believe the question to ask and I believe people who disagree with me havent answered is, did Northfield Park proviide the best product possible in the Cleveland Classic?

I believe the answer was a resounding no and that is their fault. Creating two divisions for the sake of just letting all who were eligible and paid run, seperating the best horses possible and preventing them from running against each other and having two very weakened fields instead of the best field possible was not in the best interests of the race, the fans or the sport.
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« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2007, 10:28:04 PM »

I told him that in my second post on the thread. He just ignored it and continued his ranting.


And your rants of, "It's a rule damit" answer nothing.

What YOU ignore is the fact that in allowing all 14 horses to race for no other reason then they were paid and eligible, creating two divisions to accomodate them, seperating the five best horses and creating two false champions denied the fans and the sport the best race possible.

Are you seriously going to tell us that what Northfield Park did was the best race possible?

Oh wait. The best race possible doesnt matter to the fans and sport as long as you pay.
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« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2007, 10:49:05 PM »


And your rants of, "It's a rule damit" answer nothing.

What YOU ignore is the fact that in allowing all 14 horses to race for no other reason then they were paid and eligible, creating two divisions to accomodate them, seperating the five best horses and creating two false champions denied the fans and the sport the best race possible.

Are you seriously going to tell us that what Northfield Park did was the best race possible?

Oh wait. The best race possible doesnt matter to the fans and sport as long as you pay.

I told you that I'm done discussing this with you.
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« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2007, 10:52:14 PM »


It a common theme with him. BSmeter


You know, Amy, speaking of themes ... I see a lot of posts from you about your alcohol drinking habits. I see a lot more on multiple boards about shall we say your bathroom habits and even some about you and OHHA funds.

Now I will happily take your own words that you are an expert on drinking, Im guessing you may not actually crap in the sink but thats just a guess and the OHHA funds I will just leave up to others

BUT we keep coming back to those two questions you always refuse to answer:

1) How are the horsemen at Northfield better off today with you as their Rep compared to the day before you became their Rep?
2) Why do you deserve to be the rep when the sun rises tomorrow morning?

Now lets not get the handful of your minions saying "We love Amy. Stop talking to her that way". Lets also eliminate your usual responses liks:

a) I dont have to talk about that on message boards. I use them for enteertainment, not work (Despite your posts to the contrary)
b) Come to my office and ask me
c) Call me, here is my number
d) Go to a meeting

If my questions are too tough, just say so. You havent been able to answer them any way
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« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2007, 10:58:52 PM »

I told you that I'm done discussing this with you.

Odd ...you just replied to me any way. You know, you go around claiming you know so much about the sport and I know so little. I asked you: "Are you seriously going to tell us that what Northfield Park did was the best race possible?"

I thought it was a simple question. I figured somebody as smart as you claim to be could answer it. My apologies. I was was wrong.

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When will Barn To Wire finally do the right thing and ban Clockerterry & Edwarren for their continued lies, anti-American & anti-semetic statements and their general disrutpive stupidity? 

“The answer to a government that’s too big is to stop feeding its growth.” - President Ronald W. Reagan
njhorseman
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« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2007, 11:19:33 PM »

Odd ...you just replied to me any way. You know, you go around claiming you know so much about the sport and I know so little. I asked you: "Are you seriously going to tell us that what Northfield Park did was the best race possible?"

I thought it was a simple question. I figured somebody as smart as you claim to be could answer it. My apologies. I was was wrong.



Reread what I wrote earlier in the thread:

"Now, if you want to argue that the conditions of the race should be rewritten for a different format, that's fine, but that can only be done before the first horse owner pays a dollar to stake his horse to that race for a particular year. It can't be done after the fact."

I have nothing more to say.
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« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2007, 04:59:50 AM »

Reread what I wrote earlier in the thread:

"Now, if you want to argue that the conditions of the race should be rewritten for a different format, that's fine, but that can only be done before the first horse owner pays a dollar to stake his horse to that race for a particular year. It can't be done after the fact."

I have nothing more to say.


Just where in the hell does that answer the question: "Are you seriously going to tell us that what Northfield Park did was the best race possible".

Its a simple question where you can answer "Yes" or "No" and as an added bonus ... you can even offer a reason for your answer or your opinion.

Now I know you have said like two, three or ten times that you have nothing else to say and that is followed by ... you saying something but the next time you do say something, maybe you can answer the question.

I didnt realize that asking somebody of your racing knowledge to tell us if Northfield Park offered the best race possible was such a difficult question.
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« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2007, 07:20:26 AM »

If my questions are too tough, just say so. You havent been able to answer them any way


You have been answered a dozen times.  Your inability to grasp the responses is evident not only when it comes to your tirades about me but also your tirades with others.  Proof positive over the past two pages of this thread. doh
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« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2007, 07:35:03 AM »

Just where in the hell does that answer the question: "Are you seriously going to tell us that what Northfield Park did was the best race possible".

Its a simple question where you can answer "Yes" or "No" and as an added bonus ... you can even offer a reason for your answer or your opinion.

Now I know you have said like two, three or ten times that you have nothing else to say and that is followed by ... you saying something but the next time you do say something, maybe you can answer the question.

I didnt realize that asking somebody of your racing knowledge to tell us if Northfield Park offered the best race possible was such a difficult question.

You're being held in detention for an hour after school. During that time, your assignment will be to write "I have nothing more to say" on the blackboard 250 times .
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« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2007, 11:04:52 PM »

You're being held in detention for an hour after school. During that time, your assignment will be to write "I have nothing more to say" on the blackboard 250 times .


Hey Njhorseman, it was a really simple question posed to you ... Are you telling us that Northfield Park gave us the best race possible in the Cleveland Classic?

Im sorry, I didnt think I could stump a man of your self-proclaimed racing intelligence with a simple yes or no question.  I mean do you need time to research your answer? Need more time to think about it? Need me to translate it for you? Rephrase it for you?

Tell you what ... if you just say the question was too hard for you, I will just note that you couldnt choose between "Yes" and "No" and couldnt form your own opinion and I will withdraw the question.
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« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2007, 11:10:03 PM »


You have been answered a dozen times.  Your inability to grasp the responses is evident not only when it comes to your tirades about me but also your tirades with others.  Proof positive over the past two pages of this thread. doh

Sweetheart. I see that you and the truth havent been reunited. When you decide to speak the truth, just let me know.

So just what have you accomplished and why do you deserve to be the Horsemen's Representative at Northfield Park?
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“The answer to a government that’s too big is to stop feeding its growth.” - President Ronald W. Reagan
Tsunami
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« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2007, 11:19:52 PM »


So just what have you accomplished and why do you deserve to be the Horsemen's Representative at Northfield Park?

She was probably the only person gullable enough to take the position, have you seen their purses... ouch !!!

 Grin



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« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2007, 10:25:49 AM »

Just where in the hell does that answer the question: "Are you seriously going to tell us that what Northfield Park did was the best race possible".

Its a simple question where you can answer "Yes" or "No" and as an added bonus ... you can even offer a reason for your answer or your opinion.

Now I know you have said like two, three or ten times that you have nothing else to say and that is followed by ... you saying something but the next time you do say something, maybe you can answer the question.

I didnt realize that asking somebody of your racing knowledge to tell us if Northfield Park offered the best race possible was such a difficult question.

Geez, what part of "you can't alter a contract" isn't filtering into that pea brain of yours? A simple "yeah, NJHorseman, I guess you're right" is in order. Bleating on about "best product" and the other nonsense you attempt to sidetrack this issue with, only makes you look more foolish.  nyah
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« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2007, 04:48:48 PM »

http://
Geez, what part of "you can't alter a contract" isn't filtering into that pea brain of yours? A simple "yeah, NJHorseman, I guess you're right" is in order. Bleating on about "best product" and the other nonsense you attempt to sidetrack this issue with, only makes you look more foolish.  nyah
Perhaps it's the only thing that B-boy is really good at.  Pork
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« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2007, 05:37:23 PM »

http://Perhaps it's the only thing that B-boy is really good at.  Pork

He seems reasonably intelligent, but his ego seems to get in the way.
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« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2007, 06:53:03 PM »

Best I can tell from this latest rant is that B-boy's stupid act isn't an act.   Pork
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tonymfan
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« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2007, 07:20:28 PM »


Hey Njhorseman, it was a really simple question posed to you ... Are you telling us that Northfield Park gave us the best race possible in the Cleveland Classic?

Buffaloboy you are dead wrong in this thread. The rules of the race are what they are. Northfield can't change them after they see the entries. No track can. The horsemen paid in they get in.

If this happens every year they might change the rules and add eliminations. Write them a letter to suggest it.
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« Reply #35 on: June 30, 2007, 06:10:51 AM »

She was probably the only person gullable enough to take the position, have you seen their purses... ouch !!!

 Grin





Purses at Northfield Park are so low now that when horsemen go to get their checks, Hollar is standing outside the door to hand them food stamps, supermarket coupons and government cheese. In a related story, they stopped selling coffee there the same day McDonalds stopped their national free morning coffee promotion.
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« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2007, 06:31:14 AM »

Geez, what part of "you can't alter a contract" isn't filtering into that pea brain of yours? A simple "yeah, NJHorseman, I guess you're right" is in order. Bleating on about "best product" and the other nonsense you attempt to sidetrack this issue with, only makes you look more foolish.  nyah


Wow me being called a pea brain by a mental *** like you. Thats funny. a little like you being a kettle and calling somebody black but still funny.

What is foolish is you blindly following Njhorseman and just saying, "A rule is a rule" and thats that.

You need a chiropractor because you must have hurt your back ducking my question. Are you going to look at the 14 horses entered into the Cleveland Classic at Northfield and tell us that dividing them into two divisions of seven and seperating the five best horses was the best race we could have had?

If you want to take that position and say that was the best race we could have had, then I cant argue with you because I believe that is silly. The only time you should have co-Champions is in a dead heat, not because you create two wrongful divisions. The best horses should have run against each other, not opposite each other.

If they run a field of their usual nine horses or even ten, maybe Takeshigemichi doesnt dominate and win by five as it did in its division. Maybe it isnt 3/5's faster then what Won The West ran in its division. Who knows what would have happened but they should have raced against each other and not been declared co-Champions because of some luck of a race secretary draw.

Not having rules, standards or guidelines to prevent this is the fault of the race secretary and track management
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When will Barn To Wire finally do the right thing and ban Clockerterry & Edwarren for their continued lies, anti-American & anti-semetic statements and their general disrutpive stupidity? 

“The answer to a government that’s too big is to stop feeding its growth.” - President Ronald W. Reagan
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« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2007, 06:49:26 AM »

Buffaloboy you are dead wrong in this thread. The rules of the race are what they are. Northfield can't change them after they see the entries. No track can. The horsemen paid in they get in.

If this happens every year they might change the rules and add eliminations. Write them a letter to suggest it.

Tonymfan,

Provisions should have been in place long before the draw to prevent a situation like what they had at Northfield Park. Common sense dictates that Northfield Park can never provide enough money to entice those horses to stay two weeks to have an elimination and then a final much less run two heats on the same card.

Ive given two examples of tracks who have provisions to limit the starting field. There are plenty of others I am sure we can name. How does Northfield Park not have the insightfulness to prevent what happened? Somebody said this wasnt an invitational. Well, Northfield Park does have an invitational. Its called the Battle of Lake Erie and they make sure they limit the field to eight instead of their usual nine starters. You mean the same people who set that up arent smart enough to have said, "We cant have an elimination or heats. What happens if we get more then ten in the draw?"

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“The answer to a government that’s too big is to stop feeding its growth.” - President Ronald W. Reagan
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« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2007, 09:01:46 AM »

Wow Buffalo Boy. I think your suggestion makes sense, if your intent is to have an event for the finest 3yr.olds in North America. But, in order to be hold such a race, the host track would need to make a much greater contribution to the purse as well as mareting and hosting the event.

 As with any business it comes to the bottom line. How much can a host track invest and have a reasonable ROI ? Same goes for the horse owner.
 
 Remember, we are speaking of a $187,000 race on a 1/2 mile track. Not many owners of top flight 3yr.olds are willing to take such risk.

 I can not end without applauding your tenacity. But, taking cheap shots when someone is not supporting your view... There is a board that caters to that behavior, ***. There are many nit wits there willing to trade insults. Give it a try.   
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« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2007, 02:25:44 PM »

Wow Buffalo Boy. I think your suggestion makes sense, if your intent is to have an event for the finest 3yr.olds in North America. But, in order to be hold such a race, the host track would need to make a much greater contribution to the purse as well as mareting and hosting the event.

 As with any business it comes to the bottom line. How much can a host track invest and have a reasonable ROI ? Same goes for the horse owner.
 
 Remember, we are speaking of a $187,000 race on a 1/2 mile track. Not many owners of top flight 3yr.olds are willing to take such risk.

 I can not end without applauding your tenacity. But, taking cheap shots when someone is not supporting your view... There is a board that caters to that behavior, ***. There are many nit wits there willing to trade insults. Give it a try.   


Not a bad first post. Allow me to respond to you in reverse order. First, I have a general policy that if you call me a name ... such as Track Rat Mole did calling pea brain, I will give it back and try to do so in spades. Second, with one or two execptions, I generally try to insult issues, not people. Again, I do have some exceptions.

Now what I am saying applies to any stakes race at any track. I called out Northfield Park in this instance because I feel the fans and sport got screwed and they did a terrible job.

You are absolutely right when you say its a $175,000 race on a half mile track and not many owners will take a risk. However the horses that did take the risk, they didnt get a $175,000 race. Unless Northfield Parek is going to kick in a hell of a lot more money, they arent going to get to run eliminations or multiple heats. They have one shot to get the race right. As it is, their ability to draw high quality horses, trainers and drivers is limited at best.

Nearly 75% of the Northfield Park races are for between $2000-$2999 and they always try to get nine starters. Outside of sire stakes, they have three races that the USTA recognizes as major and since you know they aint going to have eliminations or heats, you mean to tell me they cant have a provision to limit the field to nine there also?

You cant have the provision say they will limit the stakes fields to ten starters and make them eligible based upon whatever you want? In this instance, you take the money, keep it in escrow, limit the field to ten and refund the remaining four their money plus the puny interest from the escrow.

Give the fans the best race possible.
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When will Barn To Wire finally do the right thing and ban Clockerterry & Edwarren for their continued lies, anti-American & anti-semetic statements and their general disrutpive stupidity? 

“The answer to a government that’s too big is to stop feeding its growth.” - President Ronald W. Reagan
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