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Author Topic: Negotiate the splits!  (Read 1523 times)
kellytuc
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« on: December 31, 2005, 02:29:31 PM »

I just read that Canadian horsemen get 50-50 of every wager.  Why don't we negotiate the splits?
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2005, 05:53:26 PM »

I just read that Canadian horsemen get 50-50 of every wager.  Why don't we negotiate the splits?

Personally, I think that there should be harness in the state until this happens.  Otherwise, the horsemen are just getting screwed, IMO.

The utmost of fairness = if the track makes $, the purses go up.  The only way a purse cut should EVER happen is if the tracks LOSE $ -- legitimately.

Best,
EW
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kellytuc
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« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2005, 06:57:13 PM »

Personally, I think that there should be harness in the state until this happens. 

Best,
EW

EW, youre absolutely right!  But, I think what you meant to say was that there shouldnt be racing.
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2005, 07:00:26 PM »

EW, youre absolutely right!  But, I think what you meant to say was that there shouldnt be racing.

WHOOPS.  Thanks for catching that.

Yes -- it should be NO HARNESS RACING until the splits are 50/50 (after splits to State and authorities of course), and obviously, no darn recapture.  What a crazy mess this is...

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EW
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Dr.Trotter
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« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2006, 12:35:54 AM »

why don't the thorobred horsemen have this problem.  What are the splits for the t-breds in Chicago
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kellytuc
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« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2006, 02:06:18 PM »

Good question.  Does anyone know this answer?  Maybe the splits are better for t-breds.
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Richard Breth
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« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2006, 03:39:35 PM »

why don't the thorobred horsemen have this problem.  What are the splits for the t-breds in Chicago

tbreds horsemen have same splits more recapture same problems.

They did something about there problems 9 years ago. There answer was 10 months racing 5 days a week 9 - 10 races a day. Less races = higher purse per race. Money is more concentrated not so diluted. Harness horsemen dont want to go that direction. Problems stay more apparant.

Theres more simulcats betting during day hours also so more revenue for tbreds purses.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2006, 04:22:00 PM »

I just read that Canadian horsemen get 50-50 of every wager.  Why don't we negotiate the splits?

Because, years ago the wonderful IHHA board members made " Bad Deals " for the horseman. You had guys like Jim Reynolds, Dominc Frinzi, Duncan Price and some others who sold the horseman out for their own benefit. These " Bad Deals " were put into law and now the horseman have to live with that while these " Bad Deals " did nothing but kill the game and put millions in the track owners pockets. 
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burright
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« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2006, 04:54:24 PM »

       The three principal individuals in the harness game that fully supported the bill that gave
us recapture were Del Insko, Jim Reynolds and Ken Walker. Insko was the IHHA President
at the time, Jim Reynolds was in charge of Horse Racing at the Illinois Department of Revenue
and Ken Walker was Governor Jim Edgar's right hand man on horse racing.
        As for the thoroughbreds, the reason recapture doesn't affect them as adversely as it
does in the harness game is simply a question of ratios. If the thorughbreds are racing for $280,000
a program and you deduct $40,000 per program in recapture, they still are going for $240,000 a day.
        On the harness end, if you are going for $80,000 a day and you take out $30,000 per program in recapture, your'e down to $50,000 a program. Simply put, the thoroughbreds are in a better position
to handle the effects of recapture and that is why you don't see them going crazy about it.
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Alexandra K
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« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2006, 08:40:10 PM »



Burright is 100% correct.  It is Governor Edgar's task force that is the cause of death to Illinois Harness racing.  The poor (unequal) splits at the OTB's are the real problem.  The purse per night would be 40-70k higher per night with an equal split.

Recapture would make sense if it was written correctly.  When the OTB's were opened the off track split was far less than the on track split for the horsemen.  If the trend of wagering moves more toward off track than on track, then the purses would be adversely affected.  If this were to happen(which of course it did) then the purse account would need to be compensated.  This could be called recapture.  Unfortunately, the reality is that when the purse account is adversely affected by the trend toward off track versus on track, the horsemen end up owing the track.  In other words, if this deal becomes bad for the horsemen, they should be penalized.  It should read more like "if the deal becomes bad for the horsemen, they should be compensated.

As long as recapture is a law and the splits at the OTB's are not equal, we should never race at Balmoral or Maywood. 

Doc JJK
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kellytuc
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« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2006, 09:00:05 PM »

Right you are, Alexandra!  I wish people would tell the negotiating committee this.  I've been saying this for a long time.
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Richard Breth
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« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2006, 09:08:39 PM »

It is Governor Edgar's task force that is the cause of death to Illinois Harness racing.  The poor (unequal) splits at the OTB's are the real problem.  The purse per night would be 40-70k higher per night with an equal split.

I think you are mistaken. If tracks and horsemen split night time OTB revenues evenly it would be a net gain of $3.6 millions for horsemen. Over 360 nights thats $10.0 thousands per night.

I think you have your timeline confused also. OTB and recapture are different laws.

OTBs came in 1986 or 1987 as a OTB bill. Thats when those splits were decided. Governor Thompsons watch? Governor Edgars task force brought full card simulcasts and recapture in 1995. Simulcasts are 50-50 split.

On issue of splits at OTBs. Still have not seen anyone but D Lee face up to fact that OTBs cost money to operate while horsemen want 50% for doing nothing. Convince me why thats right. OTB was a horsemen idea like full card was the horsemen idea. Wasnt it?
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