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Author Topic: What if ...  (Read 2468 times)
FishHack76
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« on: June 19, 2007, 11:27:22 AM »

You could combine what you, some of you, like about Arlington and what you, well again some of you, like about Hawthorne. I don't intend this to start a pissing war. It's just a positive, utopian vision of what could happen if you could combine the two places. I thought about this often.

-- Arlington's location and facility with Hawthorne's shuttle bus service and parking. (Remember there's the old Sportman's lot across Laramie.)   
-- Arlington's food with Hawthorne prices
-- Arlington's TV show and graphics with insights from Jim Miller, et al, instead of the vapid "Triplets" who say little of value on horse racing (every race is a great race - including Maiden 10K claimers, every jockey is great, every trainer is great off a layoff.) Oh, and Jim Miller insights with those Lauren Massarella segments.
-- Arlington's attendance combined with Hawthorne's greater knowledge per capita about the sport (and how to work the machines).
-- Arlington's self service machine with Hawthorne's rewards system.
-- Arlington's treatment of the whales and the fans with strollers along with Hawthorne's treatment of average horseplayers.
-- Arlington's work force with Hawthorne's more relaxed attitude.
-- Hawthorne's handicapping contests and handicapping center combined with Arlington having the room to put it somewhere. Perhaps at one end of the third floor?

Just some thoughts ... I look forward to what everyone can think of.
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Thomas Graham
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« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2007, 12:05:13 PM »

Fish:

A nice positive post about both facilities. What a refershing change of subject.

How about Arlington's Turf Course combined with Hawthorne's willingness to actually card races over it?

How about Hawthorne's first floor bar with the flat screen TVs anywhere at Arlington?

How About Arlington's food on Hawthorne's Gold Cup room buffet?
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pressure99
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« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2007, 05:50:19 PM »

Maybe I missed a post, but how can anyone be happy with the Arlington self service machines. First of all, the amount of the old crappy machines out in the marquee areas is ridiculous. How is it that these machines haven't been upgraded. On the subject of the newer machines...who made the decision to change the home page after an initial bet is made....backspacing, clearing wager types, etc. etc. Who bets the same type bet that often that it made it worth changing? The home page should be the same race at the same track and start with amount like you would at the window. Other posts complained about getting shut out due to inexperienced wagerers betting multiple combos...if this was the solution, it is a terrible one. If you really want to speed those people along, designate a line and machines for use of gimmick wagers under a dollar and get one of the few tellers that actually looks like they aren't having an appendicitis. I'm kidding of course, there are a bunch of really nice and friendly tellers, but unfortunately they are overshadowed by the few that are really cranky or more concerned about their own bets than getting the paying customers bets in....
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User1015
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« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2007, 06:08:57 PM »

This is a nice thread. Thank you.
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FishHack76
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« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2007, 06:33:43 PM »

How about Arlington's abundance of self-service machines because the machines at both places have their strengths and weakness. Or we could combine what's best about both machines.
The Hawthorne ones are a little more user friendly (especially when making trifecta and superfecta bets) and actually show you what the ticket will look like. Virtually all of Arlington's machines will take cash, which is not true at Hawthorne. 
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2007, 07:05:42 PM »

I much prefer the format of the machines at Hawthorne as far as track, wager amount, and type of bet. It's much faster and easier to read.
I like Arlingtons machines only because you can put in cash or voucher.
Both tracks have to many machines that are either broke down or they can't read the vouchers or rewards cards.

I like the way the OLD Hawthorne (before they shut down 1/2 the building) had the parking. You could be from 25' to 500' from a door. At Arlington you have to walk a LOOOONG way just to get in the building.

Hawthorne has TV's just about wherever you are in the building. Arlington doesn't.
Both tracks have tv's that don't work properly or aren't showing all the tracks.

Hawthorne has better prices for EVERYTHING from admission to food.
Arlington is very pleasing to the eyes. It's a beautiful facility, but I always feel like I'm in a shopping mall.

Arlington's inside temperature is much more comfortable than at Hawthorne.

Arlington's paddock is well laid out.

Both places have crabby tellers.

Both tracks really do have their pluses and minuses. I don't like the long drive to Arlington.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2007, 07:07:29 PM by BeauNarro » Report to moderator   Logged
Ed
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« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2007, 06:09:16 AM »

On the subject of the newer machines...who made the decision to change the home page after an initial bet is made....backspacing, clearing wager types, etc.

I agree. Pain in the ass clearing wager type, amount, runner between bets. This can be very time consuming, frustrating  and error prone for the casual player.  These machines are certainly not very user friendly. Probably programmed by someone who has never placed a bet in there life.

Ed
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2007, 07:59:07 AM »

I agree. Pain in the ass clearing wager type, amount, runner between bets. This can be very time consuming, frustrating  and error prone for the casual player.  These machines are certainly not very user friendly. Probably programmed by someone who has never placed a bet in there life.

Me three. The new "backspace required" programming must have been put in place to service the multiple 10 cent superfecta bettors. For anyone else, who walks up intending to do a variety of wagers, it is a giant PITA. I think they must have swapped "print ticket" with some other button (next bet?) as well, position or color, because I am forever hitting the wrong button after putting in the bet.

I actually prefer those old metal tank machines out in the apron kiosks.

It's always something with the AmTote machines at Arlington. At least this year, they have all worked for me, except for one bill reader.

Good thread by Fishhack, though I prefer Hawthorne (Autotote) machines, and for the most part, Hawthorne food with the Hawthorne prices. Wink

And have I mentioned, GOOD JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! making two, count 'em two, pass lines at the clubhouse side entrance gate? Way to go!
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Trackman
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« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2007, 09:10:57 AM »

"-- Arlington's location and facility with Hawthorne's shuttle bus service and parking. (Remember there's the old Sportman's lot across Laramie.)   
-- Arlington's food with Hawthorne prices
-- Arlington's TV show and graphics with insights from Jim Miller, et al, instead of the vapid "Triplets" who say little of value on horse racing (every race is a great race - including Maiden 10K claimers, every jockey is great, every trainer is great off a layoff.) Oh, and Jim Miller insights with those Lauren Massarella segments.
-- Arlington's attendance combined with Hawthorne's greater knowledge per capita about the sport (and how to work the machines).
-- Arlington's self service machine with Hawthorne's rewards system.
-- Arlington's treatment of the whales and the fans with strollers along with Hawthorne's treatment of average horseplayers.
-- Arlington's work force with Hawthorne's more relaxed attitude.
-- Hawthorne's handicapping contests and handicapping center combined with Arlington having the room to put it somewhere. Perhaps at one end of the third floor?

Just some thoughts ... I look forward to what everyone can think of."

FishHack,

Well thought-out post. Let's hear more.

As far as distance to the tracks, it's about the same for me.

Food: no comparison. Hawthorne's is much better. Cheaper, better quality and better selection. There's no argument about prices. Hey, I admit I get food free at both places. If I had to pay at AP, I would pack a lunch.

Jim Miller trumps the "Triplets" by a mile. Joe Kristufek should have had the job at AP.

As far as the betting machines go, I don't have much contact with them except with the one in the pressbox which is rarely crowded if you bet early, so no comment.

Always nice to have a good crowd at a race track. I give AP red letters for that.



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jrstark
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« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2007, 09:18:20 AM »

Me three. The new "backspace required" programming must have been put in place to service the multiple 10 cent superfecta bettors. For anyone else, who walks up intending to do a variety of wagers, it is a giant PITA. I think they must have swapped "print ticket" with some other button (next bet?) as well, position or color, because I am forever hitting the wrong button after putting in the bet.

There's a clear all or start over button, I think it's in the upper right corner.  They've also added a "finish" button which prints your ticket and voucher.

This year, there is a 10 cent option, as opposed to having to choose other and type it in.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2007, 09:57:05 AM »

There's a clear all or start over button, I think it's in the upper right corner.

There is something, as I learned after a lot of trial and error of clearing, and I think finally APCD Dan clued me in, but it still makes for an unnecessary, irritating extra step in the process from the way it used to be. After I hit "print ticket" (hopefully), I want the machine to automatically take me back to the beginning where I can put in a new wager amount and bet type. I'm done with my tri bets after I've been there once. Now it's time for exactas, or something else, and it's going to be a different amount.

The big graphic machines used to almost work the way you'd want a machine to work, except for needing to hit a final "return balance" button. Now it stinks IMHO. Like I said, this must have been done to accommodate the multiple 10 cent old ladies, because it sure doesn't flow how a normal bettor flows, and it slows things down. I admit, putting in 10 cent wagers the old way was a slow PITA, too.
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Ed
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« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2007, 10:18:16 AM »

You would think that someone (director of mutuels?) who actually makes/understands how to bet would review and approve these changes before they are implemented.
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2007, 10:30:42 AM »

The one  thing I would like both of them to have is the same mutual machines so we don't have the mess after all these years.You should be able to bet and cash at any OTB OR TRACK.
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2007, 11:04:46 AM »

Niatross,

Agreed, but unfortunately they both use different Tote Companies. As I remember - Hawthorne uses AutoTote and Arlington uses AmTote (unless they have since changed).

The companies use different machines - it's not something the tracks themselves can control.
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David
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« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2007, 11:34:00 AM »

They could if they picked, or the state picked for them, the same company.

As a reminder I believe most tracks and otb's still have 1 couresty machine that will cash the other system you just have to ask who to see.
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2007, 11:35:57 AM »

Niatross,

Agreed, but unfortunately they both use different Tote Companies. As I remember - Hawthorne uses AutoTote and Arlington uses AmTote (unless they have since changed).

The companies use different machines - it's not something the tracks themselves can control.

BeauNarro,

I think I am going to disagree with you.If the tracks going back to whenever thought of the customers first they could have at least had one machine set up so people could cash tickets at any tracks or OTB.It's a simple case of battling each other without regard for us.I do not know if one is more to blame than the other so I blame them all equally.

My idea of a perfect racing season in Chicago is listed below.

2-15  thru   4/30  HAWTHORNE T-BREDS         BALMORAL HARNESS
5-1    thru   8/31 AP  T-BREDS                      HAWTHORNE HARNESS
9-1    thru   12-31 HAWTHORNE T-BREDS        BALMORAL HARNESS
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dogs up
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« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2007, 12:41:48 PM »

Niatross

I'd rather see 5 months at AP---I would like to see Hawthorne have as much Harness as possible, including the winter before the Tbreds start- I think that would be the best for the survival of Harness in Chicago, and the Horsemen have had better relations at Hawthorne than at Balmoral/Maywood
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edwarren
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« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2007, 12:45:37 PM »

BeauNarro,

I think I am going to disagree with you.If the tracks going back to whenever thought of the customers first they could have at least had one machine set up so people could cash tickets at any tracks or OTB.It's a simple case of battling each other without regard for us.I do not know if one is more to blame than the other so I blame them all equally.

My idea of a perfect racing season in Chicago is listed below.

2-15  thru   4/30  HAWTHORNE T-BREDS         BALMORAL HARNESS
5-1    thru   8/31 AP  T-BREDS                      HAWTHORNE HARNESS
9-1    thru   12-31 HAWTHORNE T-BREDS        BALMORAL HARNESS

You blame them all, huh.  Cheesy

As for the dates, you might get your wish. No sweat off my back and actually, I'd like to see those dates too.
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APCD Dan
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« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2007, 01:36:15 PM »

In this day and age of computers, cell phones, ATM's, and TV remotes, I do not see why so many people need to use a teller, except to cash big tickets.  I can understand older people and newbies needing help, but anybody other than that should be able to use machines.  I use them virtually 99% of the time.  Since my winnings are not real large, I just add them back to my voucher.  No teller needed.

One added advantage is that it has helped the stoopers.  All they have to do now is run a pile of tickets through the machines.  No looking at tickets is needed anymore.
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APCD Dan
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« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2007, 01:51:56 PM »

As far as how betting machines work, that stupid switch to the Backspace key occurred this spring.  We just had to discover and figure it out at Trackside.  There was no warning or directions.  It just happened.

I wonder if any of the tote companies actually held a focus group with veteran bettors to see how a machine should be configured and work.  Probably some non-betting systems analyst said logic dictates how it should be done, so let them learn.

My contribution is that they should flash and be animated like slot machines, except without the noise.  They should handle payouts of cash too.  Maybe they could flash away when you have a big payout, except that would probably alert someone to rob you.  I guess we will stay with what we have.
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Jim C
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« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2007, 04:01:11 PM »

Just a note about the TVs at the tracks and at your homes too. They will all have to be replaced by the end of 2008 or you will not have anything to watch. The end of 2008 is the deadline to switch to digital broadcasting, so no more analog TVs will work unless you buy a converter. So look to see all the older style TVs replaced at all the tracks and OTBs.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2007, 05:19:03 PM »

My contribution is that they should flash and be animated like slot machines, except without the noise.  They should handle payouts of cash too.  Maybe they could flash away when you have a big payout, except that would probably alert someone to rob you.  I guess we will stay with what we have.

It's unnecessary. Horseplayers already got their rush when the toteboard displayed the prices. Besides, most players who didn't already scream like banshees when their $2.20 show price came up generally prefer not to have it widely known how much they won. There's the security concern, the moocher concern, the repayment of debts concern, the tax concern, and the "I can't lie as much if people really know" concern.
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2007, 06:04:59 PM »

Just a note about the TVs at the tracks and at your homes too. They will all have to be replaced by the end of 2008 or you will not have anything to watch. The end of 2008 is the deadline to switch to digital broadcasting, so no more analog TVs will work unless you buy a converter. So look to see all the older style TVs replaced at all the tracks and OTBs.

I would not be so sure about that  they recycle everything.They open new otb's where they have modern games etc. but they will put a 20yo mutual machine in there.
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David
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« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2007, 06:21:09 PM »

Just a note about the TVs at the tracks and at your homes too. They will all have to be replaced by the end of 2008 or you will not have anything to watch. The end of 2008 is the deadline to switch to digital broadcasting, so no more analog TVs will work unless you buy a converter. So look to see all the older style TVs replaced at all the tracks and OTBs.

That is true, Jim, actually it is a couple months later - if they don't delay it, but that is only the cut off of broadcast tv in analog and switch to complete digital broadcast, really only affecting those without cable or satellite in thier homes. This wouldn't effect the closed circuit signals that the otb's and track run off of, so I don't think that would be the impetus to get them to change.
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pjcleve
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« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2007, 06:24:17 PM »

I think it has a few detractors on this forum, but I think AP's track program is one of the best I've seen at any track. I think it is very fan friendly for newbies, the racing commentary by Joe and Marcus is excellent for all bettors, and you get honest to goodness full pp's. In the last two weeks Marcus has hit at least three long shots on his selections in maiden races. Very good breeding notes. I use it a fair amount of time in addition to my own programming selections.

Pete
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2007, 07:11:52 PM »

I think it has a few detractors on this forum, but I think AP's track program is one of the best I've seen at any track. I think it is very fan friendly for newbies, the racing commentary by Joe and Marcus is excellent for all bettors, and you get honest to goodness full pp's. In the last two weeks Marcus has hit at least three long shots on his selections in maiden races. Very good breeding notes. I use it a fair amount of time in addition to my own programming selections.

Pete

Hawthorne program has its own little secret, Ron Uchman. The man impresses me. Does he have selections in the AP program as well? (Us freeloaders don't get a program.)
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« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2007, 07:41:47 PM »

I bet (no pun intended) that no one thought of having veteran bettors take a look at the new machine format.   It sounds terrible. Some tech guy probably figured it out and like someone above said, "never made a bet in his life."  Or never made a bet with a long line of bettors at 0 minutes to post behind him. 

I volunteered at a non profit child care council once.  I answered the phones at first.  They were putting in a hugely expensive new system.  It took about 30% longer to do anything the old system did.  They didn't ask my opinion.  I told them but no one listened.  After a month they had to take it out and lost the money.  Lots of money.
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Trackman
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« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2007, 08:07:27 PM »

Terry, you cheapskate!

Come up to the Pressbox and I'll GIVE you my program. The Form has the same information and more. Don't tell me you don't buy a Form either?

I believe Ron does the selex for the AP website and Scott McMannis does the program. Both work at it very hard and are very good.
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pjcleve
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« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2007, 08:09:51 PM »

Hawthorne program has its own little secret, Ron Uchman. The man impresses me. Does he have selections in the AP program as well? (Us freeloaders don't get a program.)

He did last year, but I don't think I've seen his comments in AP's program this year.

Pete
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2007, 08:11:33 PM »

Terry, you cheapskate!

Come up to the Pressbox and I'll GIVE you my program. The Form has the same information and more. Don't tell me you don't buy a Form either?

You don't understand. I bring my own pp's to the track, but don't get a free program because they don't hand out free programs at the gate for horseman passes. I'm not complaining, just saying I don't get them. It's no loss, except for any news that might be in.
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« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2007, 08:12:16 PM »

I think it has a few detractors on this forum, but I think AP's track program is one of the best I've seen at any track. I think it is very fan friendly for newbies, the racing commentary by Joe and Marcus is excellent for all bettors, and you get honest to goodness full pp's. In the last two weeks Marcus has hit at least three long shots on his selections in maiden races. Very good breeding notes. I use it a fair amount of time in addition to my own programming selections.

Pete

Yes, it is. I realized too late today that I didn't have to buy the Daily Herald.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2007, 08:13:25 PM »

He [Uchman] did last year, but I don't think I've seen his comments in AP's program this year.

That's too bad. This past Spring at HAW I really got some respect for him. Everyone was struggling, but he picked some nice ones.

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Moon
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« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2007, 08:23:32 PM »

That's too bad. This past Spring at HAW I really got some respect for him. Everyone was struggling, but he picked some nice ones.



He is pretty awesome.
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David
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« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2007, 08:27:31 PM »

Uchman does the closer look type of thing on some of the races, you can tell if it is Joe K, Ron Uchman or constanza guy by the initials in the comments section.
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« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2007, 08:47:53 PM »

"You don't understand. I bring my own pp's to the track, but don't get a free program because they don't hand out free programs at the gate for horseman passes. I'm not complaining, just saying I don't get them. It's no loss, except for any news that might be in."

Terry,

You bring your own pps? What are you trying to do? Beat me out of a job?

I didn't know you were a horseman. If you are, you can go into the racing office and if you have a license, they will give you a program.
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« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2007, 08:50:08 PM »

Uchman does the closer look type of thing on some of the races, you can tell if it is Joe K, Ron Uchman or constanza guy by the initials in the comments section.

Costanza?Huh !!!!

I'm not betting on anything George Costanza recommends - he's a LOSER!

maroon

/Except maybe in the "Summer of George"
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2007, 09:02:10 PM »

"You don't understand. I bring my own pp's to the track, but don't get a free program because they don't hand out free programs at the gate for horseman passes. I'm not complaining, just saying I don't get them. It's no loss, except for any news that might be in."

Terry,

You bring your own pps? What are you trying to do? Beat me out of a job?

I didn't know you were a horseman. If you are, you can go into the racing office and if you have a license, they will give you a program.

Okay, trackman, you forced me into saying it ... I don't care if I get a program or not. There.

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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2007, 09:03:31 PM »

Btw trackman my pp's are ultimately your work. Equibase to DRF to BRIS.
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2007, 09:10:37 PM »

Ronnie Uchman is a great guy, a dam good handicapper, and an even better poker player..
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