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Author Topic: My condition sheet!  (Read 1577 times)
edwardwilliam
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« on: June 09, 2006, 02:41:05 PM »

Since I've been posting "unpopular" suggestions lately, I figured I would suggest my condition sheet to y'all.  I want to say that even though many people haven't really liked my ideas -- that I really appreciate the great discussion.

Here's my thoughts on how horses should be classified:

At the heart of it all, there's two types of horses: conditioned and claiming.  Obviously that over simplifies everything, but I think it's helpful to consider this dichotomy.

Firstly, we will handle the young horses.  Believe it or not, I think that only eight classes are needed for every horse under the age of 4, and here they are:

NW1
NW2
NW3
NW4
NW2/CLHCP
NW4/CLHCP
3-4YOCLHCP
3-4YOCONDHCP

The NW1-4 are self-explanatory.  You'll notice that I eliminated NW1 and NW3 to be claimed.  Personally, I think that the difference between NW1-2/CL and NW3-4/CL are small enough that we would benefit by the fuller fields that would result from the combination of the class.  Also, you'll note that they are claiming handicaps.  A horseman can enter their horse at any tag (within reason, and depending on the racetrack), and the entrants will be grouped and handicapped by claiming price.

The 3-4YO CLHCP is a class that many racetracks don't offer -- but I really wish that they would.  What are you supposed to do with your fairly talented 3YO once he's out of the NW races?  Many times, these owners/trainers are forced into tough decisions, because they can't quite go with opens...

I'll cover the 3-4YO CONDHCP in the same breath as the opens.  It's a really easy and interesting concept.  You order the horses by their earnings in their last 6 starts (or four months) and fill the fields, with a handicap, simply in order.  The goal would be to have conditioned races four times a week, with (roughly) the first "half" drawn together, and the last "half" drawn together.  Basically, if you have 35 conditioned horses on the grounds, you get a fields of 7, 8, 10, and 10, handicapped with respect to their earnings levels.  Obviously, a race secretary would have to work to ensure the right balance, but it should, for the most part, work itself out...

The claimers would be handled in the exact same way.  You can enter your horse for any price, in $1k increments.  Order them up, and knock out the fields based on the prices.  Unless there are large gaps in prices, you will ensure the fullest fields possible -- and owners/trainers aren't constrained to claiming amounts on the condition sheet.

I hope I explained this remotely well.

Basically, you'd have ten classes:

NW1, NW2, NW3, NW4
NW2/CLHCP, NW4/CLHCP
3-4YO CLHCP, 3-4YO CONDHCP
CLHCP, CONDHCP

That's it.

I'd like to hear your opinion.

Best,
EW
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emp
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« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2006, 02:52:50 PM »

Since I've been posting "unpopular" suggestions lately, I figured I would suggest my condition sheet to y'all.  I want to say that even though many people haven't really liked my ideas -- that I really appreciate the great discussion.

Here's my thoughts on how horses should be classified:

At the heart of it all, there's two types of horses: conditioned and claiming.  Obviously that over simplifies everything, but I think it's helpful to consider this dichotomy.

Firstly, we will handle the young horses.  Believe it or not, I think that only eight classes are needed for every horse under the age of 4, and here they are:

NW1
NW2
NW3
NW4
NW2/CLHCP
NW4/CLHCP
3-4YOCLHCP
3-4YOCONDHCP

The NW1-4 are self-explanatory.  You'll notice that I eliminated NW1 and NW3 to be claimed.  Personally, I think that the difference between NW1-2/CL and NW3-4/CL are small enough that we would benefit by the fuller fields that would result from the combination of the class.  Also, you'll note that they are claiming handicaps.  A horseman can enter their horse at any tag (within reason, and depending on the racetrack), and the entrants will be grouped and handicapped by claiming price.

The 3-4YO CLHCP is a class that many racetracks don't offer -- but I really wish that they would.  What are you supposed to do with your fairly talented 3YO once he's out of the NW races?  Many times, these owners/trainers are forced into tough decisions, because they can't quite go with opens...

I'll cover the 3-4YO CONDHCP in the same breath as the opens.  It's a really easy and interesting concept.  You order the horses by their earnings in their last 6 starts (or four months) and fill the fields, with a handicap, simply in order.  The goal would be to have conditioned races four times a week, with (roughly) the first "half" drawn together, and the last "half" drawn together.  Basically, if you have 35 conditioned horses on the grounds, you get a fields of 7, 8, 10, and 10, handicapped with respect to their earnings levels.  Obviously, a race secretary would have to work to ensure the right balance, but it should, for the most part, work itself out...

The claimers would be handled in the exact same way.  You can enter your horse for any price, in $1k increments.  Order them up, and knock out the fields based on the prices.  Unless there are large gaps in prices, you will ensure the fullest fields possible -- and owners/trainers aren't constrained to claiming amounts on the condition sheet.

I hope I explained this remotely well.

Basically, you'd have ten classes:

NW1, NW2, NW3, NW4
NW2/CLHCP, NW4/CLHCP
3-4YO CLHCP, 3-4YO CONDHCP
CLHCP, CONDHCP

That's it.

I'd like to hear your opinion.

Best,
EW

Here's another solution for your condition sheet:

Non Winners of 1
: Those who know jacksh*t about the game.

Non Winners of 2: Those who think they know some sh*t after they've cracked their maiden.

Non Winners of 3: Getting a little cocky, some people who express their opinions and think they know the game somewhat.

Non Winners of 4: People who have a grasp of the specifics and can make good comments and theories on the Industry.

Non Winners 5000-5: Maybe a 2nd generation horseperson/gambler who knows more than the average bear and can hold their own in the Industry. This could also be someone who's grown up in the game

Free for All
: Those who are 3rd generation or higher, have their own farms and put more into the business then the average bear as it's their life, their blood, their sweat and tears. These are the people who put more value on the heritage and traditions of the game more then anything. In other words, don't f*ck with them.

Any questions?
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2006, 02:59:13 PM »

Here's another solution for your condition sheet:

Non Winners of 1
: Those who know jacksh*t about the game.

Non Winners of 2: Those who think they know some sh*t after they've cracked their maiden.

Non Winners of 3: Getting a little cocky, some people who express their opinions and think they know the game somewhat.

Non Winners of 4: People who have a grasp of the specifics and can make good comments and theories on the Industry.

Non Winners 5000-5: Maybe a 2nd generation horseperson/gambler who knows more than the average bear and can hold their own in the Industry. This could also be someone who's grown up in the game

Free for All
: Those who are 3rd generation or higher, have their own farms and put more into the business then the average bear as it's their life, their blood, their sweat and tears. These are the people who put more value on the heritage and traditions of the game more then anything. In other words, don't f*ck with them.

Any questions?

 Huh
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njhorseman
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« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2006, 03:00:09 PM »

Huh

copycat   Grin
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TC
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« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2006, 04:00:36 PM »

Since I've been posting "unpopular" suggestions lately, I figured I would suggest my condition sheet to y'all.  I want to say that even though many people haven't really liked my ideas -- that I really appreciate the great discussion.

Here's my thoughts on how horses should be classified:

At the heart of it all, there's two types of horses: conditioned and claiming.  Obviously that over simplifies everything, but I think it's helpful to consider this dichotomy.

Firstly, we will handle the young horses.  Believe it or not, I think that only eight classes are needed for every horse under the age of 4, and here they are:

NW1
NW2
NW3
NW4
NW2/CLHCP
NW4/CLHCP
3-4YOCLHCP
3-4YOCONDHCP

The NW1-4 are self-explanatory.  You'll notice that I eliminated NW1 and NW3 to be claimed.  Personally, I think that the difference between NW1-2/CL and NW3-4/CL are small enough that we would benefit by the fuller fields that would result from the combination of the class.  Also, you'll note that they are claiming handicaps.  A horseman can enter their horse at any tag (within reason, and depending on the racetrack), and the entrants will be grouped and handicapped by claiming price.

The 3-4YO CLHCP is a class that many racetracks don't offer -- but I really wish that they would.  What are you supposed to do with your fairly talented 3YO once he's out of the NW races?  Many times, these owners/trainers are forced into tough decisions, because they can't quite go with opens...

I'll cover the 3-4YO CONDHCP in the same breath as the opens.  It's a really easy and interesting concept.  You order the horses by their earnings in their last 6 starts (or four months) and fill the fields, with a handicap, simply in order.  The goal would be to have conditioned races four times a week, with (roughly) the first "half" drawn together, and the last "half" drawn together.  Basically, if you have 35 conditioned horses on the grounds, you get a fields of 7, 8, 10, and 10, handicapped with respect to their earnings levels.  Obviously, a race secretary would have to work to ensure the right balance, but it should, for the most part, work itself out...

The claimers would be handled in the exact same way.  You can enter your horse for any price, in $1k increments.  Order them up, and knock out the fields based on the prices.  Unless there are large gaps in prices, you will ensure the fullest fields possible -- and owners/trainers aren't constrained to claiming amounts on the condition sheet.

I hope I explained this remotely well.

Basically, you'd have ten classes:

NW1, NW2, NW3, NW4
NW2/CLHCP, NW4/CLHCP
3-4YO CLHCP, 3-4YO CONDHCP
CLHCP, CONDHCP

That's it.

I'd like to hear your opinion.

Best,
EW
Sorry EW, but the odds of you EVER putting a condition sheet together for anywhere other than Dogwater Downs are...26,000,000/1   - LOL   trotter  TC
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2006, 04:04:22 PM »

Sorry EW, but the odds of you EVER putting a condition sheet together for anywhere other than Dogwater Downs are...26,000,000/1   - LOL   trotter  TC

Puhleeze.

Best,
EW
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« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2006, 04:14:23 PM »

Puhleeze.

Best,
EW
Puhleeze = ?

A. old joke
B. you think you'll get a job as a racing secretary soon (notwithstanding the investigation into stolen archive videos with the 12-slice toasterhead.)
C. any minor role in insurance fraud on your part due to the FACT that Tom was as dumb as a box of rocks and at least you have 1/2 a brain
D. ALL OF THE ABOVE

Fughettabouttit !  Between the west coast moron calling to see if Betruetous can "get" the wood and Tom begging you to assign Tony the rail (so he could fire some "gyp  dollar  dollar  dollar at 3/5), you'd have NO SHOT !  LOL   trotter  TC
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jester
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« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2006, 05:25:33 PM »

again,your clueless, let me first say that thier are to many horsemen that have stock that need conditions that dont fit this scenerio. conditioned claimers fill many racecards. without them, short fields are a gimmy,and hell who wants to win, moving up a horse is tough, 2nd money is always the best when you see the same ones next week. again ew, was this also part of your last conversation?

regards,,,,,jester
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2006, 05:30:01 PM »

again,your clueless, let me first say that thier are to many horsemen that have stock that need conditions that dont fit this scenerio. conditioned claimers fill many racecards. without them, short fields are a gimmy,and hell who wants to win, moving up a horse is tough, 2nd money is always the best when you see the same ones next week. again ew, was this also part of your last conversation?

regards,,,,,jester

You have an entire card full of conditioned NW claimers based on what I said.  I'm not following you.

Best,
EW
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2006, 05:37:30 PM »

You have an entire card full of conditioned NW claimers based on what I said.  I'm not following you.

Best,
EW

By the way, my big problem with the current NW/CL structure is this: if you have a yearling, who shows a little promise but can't quite go with the straights, what are you supposed to do?

Right now, your choices are: opens, or put it in at a ridiculous tag like $6k plus allowances.  Pretty tough spot when you spent $10k to buy it, and another $10-20k getting it to the races.

Plus, there's a ridiculous amount of disparity between what the purses are for the young horses -- and what they SHOULD be...who in their right mind would want to have a young one in IL (for very long) unless he's shows Super Night promise?  The NW2 will consistently go in 53-54, and the purse is $5k.  It's crazy!  No wonder the breeding industry is showing some depression...

Best,
EW
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Stick to Fantasyland pal, because you'll NEVER make it in the real world - TC
midwestharnisdead
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« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2006, 08:56:56 PM »

Here's another solution for your condition sheet:

Non Winners of 1
: Those who know jacksh*t about the game.

Non Winners of 2: Those who think they know some sh*t after they've cracked their maiden.

Non Winners of 3: Getting a little cocky, some people who express their opinions and think they know the game somewhat.

Non Winners of 4: People who have a grasp of the specifics and can make good comments and theories on the Industry.

Non Winners 5000-5: Maybe a 2nd generation horseperson/gambler who knows more than the average bear and can hold their own in the Industry. This could also be someone who's grown up in the game

Free for All
: Those who are 3rd generation or higher, have their own farms and put more into the business then the average bear as it's their life, their blood, their sweat and tears. These are the people who put more value on the heritage and traditions of the game more then anything. In other words, don't f*ck with them.

Any questions?
Must be a Nance wannabe...... never makes sense
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emp
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« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2006, 09:14:08 PM »

Must be a Nance wannabe...... never makes sense

Nah, just a NW1 to be claimed for a .10 voucher ticket, and you?
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2007, 09:32:30 AM »

I thought it would be interesting to bring this discussion to the top, since Ppk is instituting similiar conditions, sans the young horses.

http://harnessracing.com/news_detailed.php?id=6649

Best,
EW
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Mclock
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« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2007, 11:33:55 AM »

I thought it would be interesting to bring this discussion to the top, since Ppk is instituting similiar conditions, sans the young horses.

http://harnessracing.com/news_detailed.php?id=6649

Best,
EW

All that schooling to become a race Secretary ? J/K , but I do always say we need the young blood to come up with some fresh ideas  dude
                                                       trotter
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HOOFHEARTED
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« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2007, 12:39:45 PM »

I think we need condition claimers-but i think we need them to have a higher claiming price on nw 1,2  make them 7000,10000,20000.that way you can still make money and not loose your horse for $7-8000. I do think the condition claimers do fill the card, but with a higher claimer and a higher purse based on claiming price-$7000claimer $4000 purse.$10000 claimer purse $5500,$20000 claimer condition purse $7500. That would make everything fair based on the horses ability. And leave some owners with a little better taste of buying more yearlings at the sales. Not that i know much about condition sheets!! Condition races nw 3500,5500,7500,10000,last 5, ffa and nw 1,2,3,4,5. Just my opinion but we all know opinions are like a__ holes we all have one.....

have a great day everyone!!!!
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« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2007, 08:09:07 PM »

   My condition sheet would have no non winners of one,two,three,or four races lifetime. Money is everything and that is how I would condition the races for the young horses.
  Maywood sheet;
   Non winners $2,000 lifetime P.P.assigned by lifetime earnings.
                      $4,000
                      $6,000
                       $8,000
                       $10,000
                        $15,000
                       $20,000
No more stiffing these things to keep them classified. Thanks to catch drivers it is not as bad as it was when many of the trainers also drove.
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I am just an old "Hoss" trainer, that has been raced hard and put away wet. 
As my Friend from Maine(Ora Stratton) says "There are horse trainers, and then there are real "Hoss" trainers.
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