Chicago Barn to Wire BRIS
Home | News | Bloggers | Forums | Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Contact Us | Search


September 30, 2014, 11:01:08 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you don't remember your password, email me.

New  registration procedures -- Some ISPs have been bouncing the verification emails.  Please email me to be activated or if you have any problems.  Click Contact Us above.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Stakes and Purses -- what's important?  (Read 1730 times)
edwardwilliam
Annnnnnnnnd they're off!
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6252

Rebate shops are not the devil.


WWW

Ignore
« on: October 28, 2005, 08:49:25 PM »

Tonight at Maywood, they'll hand out right around $700k in stakes purses.  The handle will be a little higher than normal, but really not too much.

The question here: are we better off easing up stakes that don't help to support the average Illinois horsemen?  ICF races are one thing, but look at it this way: by eliminating just these races, EVERY overnight purse could be increased by $500 (assuming the same amount of money being distributed).

I'm not saying I support either direction -- just curious what y'all think...what's really important here?

Best,
EW
Report to moderator   Logged

Stick to Fantasyland pal, because you'll NEVER make it in the real world - TC
njhorseman
Guest

« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2005, 08:55:21 PM »

Tonight at Maywood, they'll hand out right around $700k in stakes purses.  The handle will be a little higher than normal, but really not too much.

The question here: are we better off easing up stakes that don't help to support the average Illinois horsemen?  ICF races are one thing, but look at it this way: by eliminating just these races, EVERY overnight purse could be increased by $500 (assuming the same amount of money being distributed).

I'm not saying I support either direction -- just curious what y'all think...what's really important here?

Best,
EW

EW:
How are you arriving the $500 figure?  Remember, the majority of the purse for most stakes races comes from the nomination and entry fees paid by horse owners. The track kicks in a ceratin amount of "added money."

Racetracks want Grand Circuit stakes because they buy publicity and hopefully attract new bettors...not just a couple of extra who might show up at the track, but also people who watch at simulcasting locations and on the internet. Hopefully, some of those will like what they see, and return to bet the track's day-to-day cards.
Report to moderator   Logged
edwardwilliam
Annnnnnnnnd they're off!
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6252

Rebate shops are not the devil.


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2005, 09:01:09 PM »

EW:
How are you arriving the $500 figure?  Remember, the majority of the purse for most stakes races comes from the nomination and entry fees paid by horse owners. The track kicks in a ceratin amount of "added money."

Racetracks want Grand Circuit stakes because they buy publicity and hopefully attract new bettors...not just a couple of extra who might show up at the track, but also people who watch at simulcasting locations and on the internet. Hopefully, some of those will like what they see, and return to bet the track's day-to-day cards.

Honestly, I assumed that most of the purse was coming from the purse account.  I wonder if there's anyway to find out the exact amount...I believed this because the purses have stayed the same in these races, but I believe the number of nominations have fallen off.  I'll have to do a little more research.

Paul, do you really believe that these days help future handle?  I sincerely believe that big bettors (who make up the majority of the pools) don't get swayed by days like this.  Your opinion?

Best,
EW
Report to moderator   Logged

Stick to Fantasyland pal, because you'll NEVER make it in the real world - TC
njhorseman
Guest

« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2005, 09:11:05 PM »

Honestly, I assumed that most of the purse was coming from the purse account.  I wonder if there's anyway to find out the exact amount...I believed this because the purses have stayed the same in these races, but I believe the number of nominations have fallen off.  I'll have to do a little more research.

Paul, do you really believe that these days help future handle?  I sincerely believe that big bettors (who make up the majority of the pools) don't get swayed by days like this.  Your opinion?

Best,
EW


EW:
The Meadowlands publishes  staking information (number of horses, staking fees paid, etc.) on its website, but I doubt Maywood and Balmoral do. Wink One way to find out is to ask the race office. I think you'll find out that the majority of the money still comes from the stakes payments.

I wasn't talking about big bettors. I'm talking about the average guy who watches the races that night because a horse he likes or knows about is racing. He may come back again if he likes what he sees.
Report to moderator   Logged
edwardwilliam
Annnnnnnnnd they're off!
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6252

Rebate shops are not the devil.


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2005, 09:24:08 PM »

EW:
The Meadowlands publishes  staking information (number of horses, staking fees paid, etc.) on its website, but I doubt Maywood and Balmoral do. Wink One way to find out is to ask the race office. I think you'll find out that the majority of the money still comes from the stakes payments.

You're wink is totally correct.  A "real" track should clearly publish this information.  Maybe I'll see if I can obtain it.

I wasn't talking about big bettors. I'm talking about the average guy who watches the races that night because a horse he likes or knows about is racing. He may come back again if he likes what he sees.

You're correct about Joe Q. Average.  I'm more concerned about the actual effect on handle, however, and I wholeheartedly believe that about 10% of the people bet about 70-90% of the money, so I'm not sure if nights like this actually help the handle too much in the future...

Of course, there's no way to really know if these opinions are correct -- no way to get this information.

Best,
EW
Report to moderator   Logged

Stick to Fantasyland pal, because you'll NEVER make it in the real world - TC
Ironworks
Full Member
***
Posts: 223




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2005, 11:53:34 PM »

Here is an idea for the Cinerella (3 year old filly pace).  Tonight it was split into two divisions at $65k each.  The cost to stay eligible as a 3 year old in March was about $1,200 and it was $1,000 to start.  I'm not sure what the pay in was for the yearling or 2 year old year.  I think the Windy City has a $3,500 starting fee, so I would assume the nomination in the spring is about the same, plus 1 and 2 year old payments.  Obviously, there are a ton who stay eligible who never race.

If you call the race office, you can get a list of eligibles and do the math.  I think your answer will be that the majority of the purse money will come from nomination and starting fees, but I've never worked it out.
Report to moderator   Logged
sn
Guest

« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2005, 02:45:36 PM »

Stake races mean more chalks
Report to moderator   Logged
Terry Hunt
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 279




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2005, 01:30:27 AM »

EW,

I can't tell you the exact figure, but I can assure you that a very small percentage of the money paid on in the stakes races is from the purse account.

In fact, the IHHA has a limit on the percentage of stakes money that can come out of the purse account over the course of the contract.  I believe it is less than 5%, but I would have to check to be certain.

The horsemen are very aware of any money coming out of the overnight purse account.   The stakes races held on Friday were all early closers, so the bulk of the pot comes from the nominating fees, the sustaining fees, and the starting fees paid by the owners of the horses.

Jack Kelly can tell you exactly how much stakes monies come out of the purse account in total.  Doc Narotsky usually has the numbers crunched for the individual stakes.  I am sure either one would provide you the info.
Report to moderator   Logged

Terry Hunt
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.332 seconds with 16 queries.

Home
Upcoming events
Arlington Million
Horse slaughter in IL
Racing TV schedule
News Updates
Legislation

Galloping Out

Previous stories

Arlington
Balmoral
Hawthorne
Maywood
Chicago Sun-Times
Chicago Tribune
Blood-Horse
Daily Racing Form
Thoroughbred Times
Harness Link
Illinois Racing Board

 

2014

Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2013

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2012

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

More ebay items

 

Home | News Updates | Bloggers | Forums | Search
Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Advertising | Contact Us

Copyright © 2000-2014 Chicago Barn to Wire. All rights reserved.
Privacy policy