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Author Topic: Thin the herd and increase the winners share  (Read 1149 times)
trotter1
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« on: December 22, 2005, 07:25:24 PM »

You know, it's so bad now with the purse structure on anything less than a 10 claimer
I would as an owner be willing to do the following:

Have an entry fee of $250.00 for each horse (added to the purse) for EVERY race less than
a 10 claimer in Chicago.

Therefore there would be $2000 (8 horse field) to $2500 (10 horse field) ADDED $$ to each race
but split differently.

In addition to the regular pitiful purse money split of 50%/25%/12%/8%/5%
the EXTRA entry fee money would ONLY BE PAID to the 1st and 2nd place horses
on a 60/40 split.

Now, if i'm racing for what is normally a $3800 purse with a maximum winning share
of $1900. I can earn an EXTRA $1500 (gross) in a 10 horse field or $1200 gross in
a 8 horse field if I win or ($1000 or $800) resprectively if I come in 2nd (for my $250.
investment)

I would say this would give EVERYONE a little more incentive to classify their horses
properly and try to be 1st/2nd each start.   If your putting up an extra $500-$750
per month to enter your horse to race (2-3 starts on average) you're going to try
extra hard to hit the BONUS money.

This would also force some cheap horses out of Chicago and would keep some of the dead
lame animals from being entered in the first place if the owners knew they had to put up
$250.00 for the start and had little chance of hitting the board.

Just a thought..........
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FILL ER UP
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« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2005, 07:30:26 PM »

TROTTER1, WHY DONT YOU JUST PLAY A $250 POKER GAME WITH A BUY IN. THAT WAY YOU COULD LEAVE THE HORSES IN THE BARN AND JUST PLAY POKER ALL NIGHT BECAUSE ALL YOU ARE DOING IS TAKING MONEY FROM ONE OWNER TO ANOTHER. SAVE THAT BULLSHIT AND JUST PLAY A TEXAS HOLDEM GAME WITH A $250 BUY IN EVERY TIME YOU WANT TO RACE. BOTTOM LINE, WHY SHOULD THE OWNERS PAY BECAUSE THE JOHNSONS ARE STEALING AND ROBBING THE PURSE ACCOUNT. FUC* THEM, STICK IT RIGHT UP THERE ASS AND GO OUT ON STRIKE FOR 6 MONTHS UNTIL HAWTHORNE AND SEE HOW THEY LIKE THAT!!! Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry

SO IN 2006 LETS HAVE THE OWNERS PUT UP ALL THE PURSE MONEY WE RACE FOR SO WE CAN ALL HAVE MORE MONEY TO RUN FOR. THIS IS THE MOST ASSININE IDEA I EVER HEARD OF. I AM NOT PAYING FOR THE JOHNSONS FUC*-UPS. IF YOU WANT TO RACE IN  CHICAGO AT THE JOHNSONS TRACKS, THEN RACE FOR WHAT THEY ARE WILLING TO PAY OR GO RACE ELSEWHERE. I'M NOT ADDING ANY MONEY INTO THE PURSE OR I WILL GO BUY A T-BRED AND RACE FOR REAL MONEY. FUC* THE JOHNSONS!!! Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry
« Last Edit: December 22, 2005, 07:35:25 PM by FILL ER UP » Report to moderator   Logged
trotter1
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« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2005, 07:53:34 PM »

Hmmm, all it would be doing is taking money from one owner to another??

Have you ever wagered any money on a Pari-mutual race in Illinois?  What, you HAVE?

Why would you EVER do that since you are just taking money from one person,
letting the TRACKS deduct 25% (for their cut) and then giving it to another person!!

I don't disagree about your comment regarding going somewhere else to race if one
doesn't like it here--I've certainly made that comment in other posts, but the reality
is that the purses are NOT going to get any better here for at least 3-5 years and
may NEVER get better.

I would pay the entry fee if I felt I could make a PROFIT on it by finishing 1st/2nd
on a semi-regular basis or it would FORCE me to leave due to the costs. 

That's actually the point you chose to overlook.  It would cut down on the lame horses
being entered, be a little more incentive for drivers to win and actually turn a PROFIT
for the owners who classified their horses properly.

By the way, do you own any horses racing in IL or just on the forum to shoot down any
ideas?
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« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2005, 08:09:26 PM »

TROTTER1,, NOT TRYING TO SHOOT DOWN YOUR IDEA BUT WAGERING ON A RACE AND PAYING AN ENTRY FEE ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. WHEN I BET ON A RACE, I DECIDE WHICH RACE TO BET ON AND HOW MUCH. I BET OFF SHORE SO I GET A NICE REBATE AND THE MONEY DOES NOT HIT THE POOLS. WHEN I RACE MY HORSE, I RACE FOR THE PURSE THAT IS OFFERED AND IF I DONT LIKE IT, I EITHER SELL THE HORSE OR GO RACE SOMEHWRE ELSE. IS IT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND? I'M NOT PAYING FOR THE JOHNSONS TO GET A FREE RIDE. THIS IS NOT T-BRED RACING OR A STAKE RACE WHERE THERE IS A STARTING FEE. IF YOU WANT TO DO THAT, THEN WHY NOT HAVE EACH OWNER PUT UP 10 GRAND AND RACE FOR 100,000 EVERY WEEK? WHERE DOES IT STOP? STRIKE AND STAY OUT UNTIL RECAPTURE IS ELIMINATED AND JUST GET IT OVER WITH. BY RACING HERE YOU ARE ONLY AGREEING TO RACE FOR THE LOWEST FORM OF SCUM JOHNSON FAMILY AND LOW PURSES TO BOOT. FUC* THAT. AND YES I JUST SHIPPED MY HORSES TO A DIFFERENT TRACK BECAUSE I DONT WANT TO RACE FOR WHAT THE JOHNSONS ARE OFFERING SO I DONT HAVE THAT PROBLEM TO WORRY ABOUT THIS HOLIDAY SEASON. CASE CLOSED?? MERRY CHRISTMAS
« Last Edit: December 22, 2005, 08:16:17 PM by FILL ER UP » Report to moderator   Logged
edwardwilliam
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« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2005, 08:22:16 PM »

You know, it's so bad now with the purse structure on anything less than a 10 claimer
I would as an owner be willing to do the following:

Have an entry fee of $250.00 for each horse (added to the purse) for EVERY race less than
a 10 claimer in Chicago.

Therefore there would be $2000 (8 horse field) to $2500 (10 horse field) ADDED $$ to each race
but split differently.

In addition to the regular pitiful purse money split of 50%/25%/12%/8%/5%
the EXTRA entry fee money would ONLY BE PAID to the 1st and 2nd place horses
on a 60/40 split.

Now, if i'm racing for what is normally a $3800 purse with a maximum winning share
of $1900. I can earn an EXTRA $1500 (gross) in a 10 horse field or $1200 gross in
a 8 horse field if I win or ($1000 or $800) resprectively if I come in 2nd (for my $250.
investment)

I would say this would give EVERYONE a little more incentive to classify their horses
properly and try to be 1st/2nd each start.   If your putting up an extra $500-$750
per month to enter your horse to race (2-3 starts on average) you're going to try
extra hard to hit the BONUS money.

This would also force some cheap horses out of Chicago and would keep some of the dead
lame animals from being entered in the first place if the owners knew they had to put up
$250.00 for the start and had little chance of hitting the board.

Just a thought..........

A very, very interesting thought.

$250 might be a little steep, considering that it would equate to $1,000 a month.  That's a pretty stiff cost to add to an already tough investment to make.  However, a $50 entry fee, all awarded to the winner could be interesting?

Either way, you are thinking -- and that's what this sport desperately needs now.

In all other forms of business, there's constant improvements.  For racing, the condition sheets, purse payment structures, and betting structures have all pretty much stayed untouched for ages.  Thoughts like this, even if maybe not possible, get the wheels turning.

Personally, I would like to see the "paying positions" changed.  Paying money for fifth in a field of eight just doesn't make sense.  Essentially, you are paying for someone to be LESS THAN AVERAGE.

I would propose paying three spots in a field of 8, and four spots in fields of 9 and 10.  Someone earning for being in the back half of the field is ridiculous, IMO.

Best,
EW
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Stick to Fantasyland pal, because you'll NEVER make it in the real world - TC
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« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2005, 08:56:08 PM »

Why not pay $250 stall rent / horse and demand it be given back in purse money, like the Johnsons would give back $$$.Yeah right   Purses should be increased by the track, not the owners.They have enough bills.Putiing on the show for all these years and having the purses drop to these levels is ridiculous. Compare purses to say 1972 figures. Now compare bills in the same time frame.Shoeing has quadrupled.Feed tripled. In 1972 I had a job that paid $3.50/hr. That same job now, at the same company pays $21.00/hr.

  Its a shame Illinois has allowed this to happen to the racing industry.Its amazing Illinni horsemen have not left in droves over the years.
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FILL ER UP
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« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2005, 02:11:36 PM »

TROTTER1, I WAS THINKING ABOUT ABOUT YOUR PROPOSAL OF THE OWNERS PUTTING UP $250 WHEN THEY ENTER THERE HORSE TO INCREASE THE PURSE AND THOUGHT OF THIS IDEA. IF A STRIKE HAPPENS, AND IT MIGHT, WHY NOT HAVE THE HORSEMEN LEASE OUT ONE OF THE COUNTY FAIR TRACKS, SAY LIKE MENDOTA AND HAVE EVERY OWNER WHO WANTS TO RACE, PAY THE $250 STARTING FEE YOU MENTIONED. YOU COULD PROBABLY ONLY HAVE 8 HORSE FIELDS ON THE HALF-MILE TRACK MAKING THE TOTAL PURSE $2000 FOR EACH RACE. YOU COULD HAVE SOMETHING LIKE THE WINNER GETS $1500 AND PLACE GETS $500. FOR BETTER HORSES WITH HIGHER PURSES YOU COULD HAVE THE OWNERS PUT UP $500 EACH AND SO ON. ITS NOT FIRST CLASS RACING AND ITS ONLY AN IDEA, BUT IF THE HORSEMEN COULD LEASE A RACETRACK, THEY COULD STAY ON STRIKE UNTIL RECAPYURE WAS ELIMINATED, HURT THE JOHHSONS POCKETBOOK, HURT THE STAES POCKETBOOK, AND AT LEAST SURVIVE BY RACING FOR A LITTLE BIT TO KEEP THEM GOING. I KNOW ITS SOUNDS FAR FETCHED BUT YOUR IDEA WAS NOT A BAD ONE AFTER I THOUGHT ABOUT IT FOR AWHILE. I JUST THINK IF WE AS OWNERS ARE GOING TO SUPPLEMENT THE PURSE ACCOUNT, THEN LETS GET RID OF THE JOHNSONS AND DO IT OURSELFS WITHOUT THEM OR THE STATE REAPING AND OF THE REWARDS. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE THIS WHERE WE LEASE A RACETRACK AND AVOID THE MIDDLEMAN (JOHNSONS & STATE OF ILLINOIS)? THANKS FOR YOUR ANSWER!
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talking head
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« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2005, 03:02:30 PM »

If you give the Johnstons anything, it sets a standard! Let them charge stall rent next time they will start having us pay for electricity!
Having the owners contribute to the purse of a race?Huh Watch the Johnstons cut the purses even more! They will say we are broke! Yeah Right!
Take all the relatives off the payroll!
The Johnstons have been stealing money from the horseman for years!
If they were so broke why do they want so many race dates?
Being an Illinois Horseman is like playing Russian roulette, sooner or later
YOU  LOSE!!!!
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« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2005, 03:15:40 PM »

TALKING HEAD, GOOD POST. THAT IS WHY I SAID AS AN OWNER OF HORSES HERE IN ILLINOIS, I WOULD PREFER TO ELIMINATE THE JOHNSONS COMPLETELY IF WE WERE GOING TO SUPPLEMENT THE LOW PURSES ALREADY. LIKE I SAID BEFORE, IF WE ARE THE ONES PUTTING UP MONEY TO RACE OUR HORSES TO HELP THE PURSE, WHY NOT LEASE SOME COUNTY FAIR TRACK AND LEAVE THE JOHNSONS DO WHETEVER THEY WANT TO DO SINCE THEY DONT NEED THE HORSEMEN OR OWNERS AT ALL. THAT IS THE ONLY POINT I WAS MAKING. IF WE AS OWNERS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO ADD OUR OWN MONEY INTO THE POT, THEN LETS DO IT SOMEWHERE WITHOUT THE JOHNSONS BENEFITTING AT ALL. A COUNTY FAIR TRACK OR SPRINGFIELD COULD BE LEASED AND WE COULD ALL RACE THERE AND LEAVE THE JOHNSONS HAVE THERE SIMULCASTING AND THE STATE COULD MAKE THERE PEANUTS AND LOSE THERE ASS TOO. THEN LET OUR GOOD STATE OF ILLIONOIS SEE WHAT ITS LIKE TRYING TO DO BUSINESS WITH THE JOHNSONS.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2005, 04:07:28 PM by FILL ER UP » Report to moderator   Logged
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