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Author Topic: Erv Miller Positive  (Read 11267 times)
Dan Nance
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« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2005, 12:48:25 PM »

Either way works. The guy that showed me this method has had decent sucess racing in Iowa and Illinois and has not killed a horse in 40 years of giving the bute this way.  I just don't want people to think this is giving in an abusive manner to the horse.  That is the farthest from the truth.   

OK, to each his own I guess. I'm sure SN and I have tricks that we do that some people would think are crazy too.
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County Fair Racing
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« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2005, 12:52:13 PM »

Yes, I grew up around a lot of old timers that are no longer with us.  I sure wish I would have started a book on what I have seen and heard.  One I will never forget is when a horse has a fever, the first think one old timer did was shove a couple of ice cudes up the rectum.  But he swore by this and he was a 3 rd generation horseman.
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sn
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« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2005, 12:54:45 PM »

Doc Owens never killed one either from giving a DMSO jug  in all the 100's of jugs he gave until he gave one to Les Einhaus's horse that was a little to cold and he dropped dead!!!

save money but just be careful!!!
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TC
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« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2005, 12:55:05 PM »

...tricks like hiring competent, well-skilled help, getting to the barn early in the morning and sitting behind your stock, moving $8,000 claimers up through the ranks time and time again, and winning in buckets while having nearly 200 less positives than "the Knife" and "John Daly" did over the same number of years (yours, I believe, can be counted on one hand, theirs you need Big Blue at IBM to add them all up ! ) ?  Do you mean those "tricks" Mr.Nance ?  TC
OK, to each his own I guess. I'm sure SN and I have tricks that we do that some people would think are crazy too.
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County Fair Racing
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« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2005, 01:01:33 PM »

I believe hard luck wins races.  But I have also learned it doens't matter how much work you put in it, the horse has to have the ability.  My problem is I believe if a horse isn't doing well that it is my fault as a trainer.  I have came to realize that I have had modest luck, but I need the stock.  I am not a believer in "medicating", though you have to level that playing field.  I can compete on oats and hay. 
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« Reply #30 on: October 28, 2005, 01:08:05 PM »

I believe hard luck wins races.  But I have also learned it doens't matter how much work you put in it, the horse has to have the ability.  My problem is I believe if a horse isn't doing well that it is my fault as a trainer.  I have came to realize that I have had modest luck, but I need the stock.  I am not a believer in "medicating", though you have to level that playing field.  I can compete on oats and hay. 
Fair racer, go tell that to the two barns here with NBA-like scores of positive tests over the last few years.  Maybe you can make sense of their "environmental contamination" or "dropped Snicker's Bar" excuses and ask how it feels to get a slap on the wrist from PL and JJ each time, while guys like RD get a year in the "cooler" while having no horse test positive when "caught" with a syringe near his tackbox.  TC
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County Fair Racing
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« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2005, 01:13:16 PM »

I have not personally raced in Chicago.  I have been there several times with others racing and I know several trainers and drivers there.  But this forum has opened my eyes up to alot of things.   I heard 10 years ago when TM was the top drivers in the country in wins  that he could have won alot more if he wanted to.  That came straight out of Chicago and opened my eyes to him.
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sn
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« Reply #32 on: October 28, 2005, 01:14:19 PM »

What world are you living in??? The only place you can compete on hay and oats is at the county fair hog judgeing contest!!! cause it sure isnt racing horses!!!
Remember one thing , There are no bad horses, people make bad horses!!!
Forget good stock, we have never had good stock in our life, make the best with what you have classify them where ever they fit. And stop giving that Bute with that hose!!! if your on a farm give it in the pipe 10cc's go to farm and fleet and pick up a bottle for 10 bucks!!!
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2005, 01:15:09 PM »

...tricks like hiring competent, well-skilled help, getting to the barn early in the morning and sitting behind your stock, moving $8,000 claimers up through the ranks time and time again, and winning in buckets while having nearly 200 less positives than "the Knife" and "John Daly" did over the same number of years (yours, I believe, can be counted on one hand, theirs you need Big Blue at IBM to add them all up ! ) ?  Do you mean those "tricks" Mr.Nance ?  TC

You about summed it up TC. Just think, if it wasn't for Bowen and Rob Ragola the Nance's would have a 100% clean record. And Doc wants to talk about integrity? He better talk to Joe (the knife) Rucker and several others about integrity before he talks about the Nance's.

    Doc has always been jealous of the Nance's because of how we could move horses up 5 classes after we took over.That would include before and after the M99 scandle. He called the farm once and asked me if I wouldn't mind telling him what we did to Eclipse to make him so good after claiming him for 8K. I told him Doc just remember this, Team Nance is the best around and we know all the TRICKS. So what did he do?.....he jacked me over and posted Eclipse FFA out of a 25k claimer and gave him the 7 hole in a 7 horse field in his first start in that class. Needless to say we stuck it right up his ass and beat that class twice in 4 starts before we took him out east and sold him for 70k.

    Yeah, TC you would never see Team Nance getting a positive for bute in a state that doesn't allow bute in two year olds.  
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County Fair Racing
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« Reply #34 on: October 28, 2005, 01:21:54 PM »

Did the Nance's start with yearlings or with horses all ready racing.  I am small time with a limited budget and time.  Like I said I have had modest luck.  But when you buy one yearling per year and it's on the cheap end the chances of it racing are not as great.  Now I have moved up to having more horses and hopefully I will have stock to race in Chicago in the next couple of years.
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sn
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« Reply #35 on: October 28, 2005, 01:23:50 PM »

Forget the yearlings!!! find something already racing, put some work in him and classify him right!!
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« Reply #36 on: October 28, 2005, 01:27:30 PM »

Like my name states I race at the county fair.  I have something bought all ready for next year that is racing.  I plan to have some aged stock and I have 2 brood mares in foal also.  But I definately can't count on one yearling racing I learned that lesson.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #37 on: October 28, 2005, 01:28:00 PM »

Did the Nance's start with yearlings or with horses all ready racing.  I am small time with a limited budget and time.  Like I said I have had modest luck.  But when you buy one yearling per year and it's on the cheap end the chances of it racing are not as great.  Now I have moved up to having more horses and hopefully I will have stock to race in Chicago in the next couple of years.

If you believe what you read here, in a couple of years racing in Chicago will be a step down from the fairs. Wink
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« Reply #38 on: October 28, 2005, 01:32:00 PM »

But where I live and bought a farm, Chicago is the closed place that has year around racing.  Plus if it gets easier that is better for me.  I have a full time job so I am not dependant on the horses.  I just love the racing and most of the people.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #39 on: October 28, 2005, 01:35:20 PM »

Did the Nance's start with yearlings or with horses all ready racing.  I am small time with a limited budget and time.  Like I said I have had modest luck.  But when you buy one yearling per year and it's on the cheap end the chances of it racing are not as great.  Now I have moved up to having more horses and hopefully I will have stock to race in Chicago in the next couple of years.

We had babies and did real well with them but we speacialized in claimers. That's how we earned the name " The Claiming Kings " of Chicago if you're not familiar with what we did with claimers.

     If you are planning on racing in Chicago ( if there is racing there in the future ) you better plan on racing on alot more then oats and hay. You will be up against Joe ( the knife ) Rucker and Ledford and Darcy ( the newest chemist in town ). These guys will send you back to the fairs with what they do to horses. BUT REMEMBER THIS !!!!!!  THESE GENTLEMAN ARE CONSIDERED BY DOC TO HAVE HIGH INTEGRITY.

     You better learn more TRICKS other then blowing bute into a horses mouth if you want to compete against these guys. And that's the truth. Always the truth from Team Nance.
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sn
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« Reply #40 on: October 28, 2005, 01:38:48 PM »

Dont worry county fair racer, you will pick up some checks, thats what Chi. racing has come to anyways abunch of guys who have jobs and train part time!!!
That is until next summer rolls around!!!
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« Reply #41 on: October 28, 2005, 01:43:18 PM »

I enjoyed the conversation with Team Nance today.  I would have met you guys if I would have chosen the racing path after high school instead of college.  I had a few job offers in Chicago as a  second trainer.  One thing I have learned is it's a differnet world when your footing the bill and not getting paid for working for a stable.  I am very aware of the tricks and how often things change.  An I miss typed my statement.  You can't compete anymore on corn and oats.  Though it was nice beating people that knew my horse was clean and their's wasn't
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« Reply #42 on: October 28, 2005, 02:04:45 PM »

I enjoyed the conversation with Team Nance today.  I would have met you guys if I would have chosen the racing path after high school instead of college.  I had a few job offers in Chicago as a  second trainer.
fair racer, you weren't approached by a guy in brown and white asking you to be his trainer, did you.  You're probably glad you said "NO" then.  The kickback alone each week would have given you a nosebleed for sure - LOL.  Does anyone old enough remember the Ed Sullivan Show when the guy came on stage and kept 8 plates spinning on poles (or pool cues) at once ?  The modern version of that show heads to the Tax Dodge State full-time, starting Wednesday - LOL.  TC
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #43 on: October 28, 2005, 02:09:53 PM »

I enjoyed the conversation with Team Nance today.  I would have met you guys if I would have chosen the racing path after high school instead of college.  I had a few job offers in Chicago as a  second trainer.  One thing I have learned is it's a differnet world when your footing the bill and not getting paid for working for a stable.  I am very aware of the tricks and how often things change.  An I miss typed my statement.  You can't compete anymore on corn and oats.  Though it was nice beating people that knew my horse was clean and their's wasn't

We might be looking for a good man to help us run the barn next summer so if you have nothing better to do look us up at Hawthorne. After spending 5 months with us after we leave you might become a leading trainer from what you will learn under us. Example, Big Mickey (God rest his sole) before he came to work for us he trained on his own with little success. After working for us and back stabbing us behind our back to RTP he left with Ritmo and became a top trainer while running his barn the way he saw us do and also using the same training methods that he learned from us.

     Nice talking to you county fair racer. I'll look forward to meeting you next summer.  
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warden
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« Reply #44 on: October 28, 2005, 02:12:23 PM »

warden with all due respect, I don't know what tangent you are on, but I myself have never inhaled or done ONE drug in my life-EVER.

What was in that Bud bottle that you bought at the track bar?
And did I say all bettors were? In fact I spoke of the unfair DIS-advantage they had.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #45 on: October 28, 2005, 02:15:43 PM »

What was in that Bud bottle that you bought at the track bar?
And did I say all bettors were? In fact I spoke of the unfair DIS-advantage they had.

My question is.....whats with the 5 blue stars under your name?
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« Reply #46 on: October 28, 2005, 02:19:49 PM »

Dan, do you remember when a Ritmo line (I know RTP does...paging RTP) was used as the example in the Maywood program for years.  Of course, it was really a Golden Boy (Incredible Finale) line, but the lines clearly showed Ritmo winning that night, with Charge Plate 2nd.  Was Mickey R. trainer for that win, or were you guys still hitching him at that time ?  He had Magee on him, sat 4th, made a move after the quarter, got by the leader going to the club turn, and drew off.  Charge Plate and RJ closed from the back per usual for place.  I remember playing Ritmo that night and w/ Charge Plate in the EX.  Ritmo went off 7/1 or so and the $2 (or$3) EX paid $70.  Let us all know if you recall.  TC
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« Reply #47 on: October 28, 2005, 02:36:56 PM »

I don't drink Bud.  Furthermore, I make it a habit never to wager and drink - not here or in Las Vegas.  If you saw me purchasing alcohol at the track, it must have been for someone else. I was 1/2 joking because I was unsure of your point is all.  Tc
What was in that Bud bottle that you bought at the track bar?
And did I say all bettors were? In fact I spoke of the unfair DIS-advantage they had.
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« Reply #48 on: October 28, 2005, 02:59:51 PM »

TC,

Mickey was the trainer.
The Nance's couldn't get Ritmo to race at that level.

Also, now you're saying Tony Morgan pays out kickbacks to trainers?
Explain that one to we people who know nothing about the game?
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #49 on: October 28, 2005, 03:03:02 PM »

Dan, do you remember when a Ritmo line (I know RTP does...paging RTP) was used as the example in the Maywood program for years.  Of course, it was really a Golden Boy (Incredible Finale) line, but the lines clearly showed Ritmo winning that night, with Charge Plate 2nd.  Was Mickey R. trainer for that win, or were you guys still hitching him at that time ?  He had Magee on him, sat 4th, made a move after the quarter, got by the leader going to the club turn, and drew off.  Charge Plate and RJ closed from the back per usual for place.  I remember playing Ritmo that night and w/ Charge Plate in the EX.  Ritmo went off 7/1 or so and the $2 (or$3) EX paid $70.  Let us all know if you recall.  TC

TC
       Mickey had him then. Let's give Mickey credit for all he did with Ritmo and others. The only thing is that a former groom of ours who went to work for Mickey after Mickey left us with Ritmo and RTP came to us and told us that Mickey runs his barn and does exactly what we do as far as out training methods go. He also used the same vets we did Dr. Dan and Dr. Bentley. Mickey came to us down and out in 1985 and asked us to hire him as a groom because we were his friends. We hired him and he worked for us for over 7 months at the farm. He watched everything we did to the horses and what our training methods were. When he caused me a problem with RTP telling him things that were not true ( and this is no lie because one of my grooms told me what he was telling RTP behind my back ) and left us with Ritmo and RTP he trained mostly how we trained and was very successful. I didn't talk to Mickey for almost 10 years after I was told by one of our grooms what he was saying and doing behind my back. May Mickey rest in piece but he did cause us to lose the horse that could have been the best one we ever trained. RTP and I never had a problem until Mickey came to work for us. And the fuuny thing is that SN told me not to hire Mickey because he knew what he might do from his past reputation with Ed Holdeman when he stole one of Ed's owners when he worked for Ed. I didn't listen to SN because I didn't think Mickey would do that to his friends.

 So, that's the TRUE story of how Mickey got Ritmo. I'm sure Big Mick is looking down right now and saying to himself " Yes, every word Dan has said is true ".

  Rest in piece Mick.... no hard feelings.... you did what you needed to do at the time for your own benefit.  
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