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Author Topic: Interesting Observation  (Read 2420 times)
Les Moore
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« on: December 16, 2005, 12:13:00 AM »

Having a few days off I thought I would take a drive to Northfield since I have never been there. I witnessed something I have seen far too many times in the recent past. I know stuff like this happens in racing but sometimes it happens at the wrong time. A group of newbies were next to us and were having a good time until the 11th race on Tuesday. They figured out that there was no money to be made on a 1/2 favorite so they bet on the second favorite who was 3/1. The second favorite collared the favorite and broke stride 2 yards from the wire. When they took the horse down, the all too familar happened. The programs flew, the cursing started and the credibility of harness racing was once again questioned. They left in a rage and vowed to never return. How many generations of future fans and bettors left with them? I've seen this happen so many times in the last couple of years it almost makes me cry.Something has to be done to improve the perception of harness racing or it will continue on its downward slide.
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trotter1
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« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2005, 12:37:29 AM »

I agree that it is a shame to see that but it really is about the track educating the consumer on the rules
of the game. You know that if the newbies had bet on the chalk that go beat and ended up winning
due to the 2nd favorites disqualification (due to the break at the wire) they would have been giving eachother (and you) "high fives" all over the place and loving the "2nd chance" they got at the wire.

I've been at Maywood next to newbies who have bet on the leading horse about to reach the
1/2 thinking they've won the race--I would tactfully let them know that the horses have to
go around "one more time".   

There should be a basic DVD put out by the industry explaining harness racing and how it is
vastly different from theThoroughbred racing they are probably very familar with (not making bets
but rather actual race strategy on the track).
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Idealtowne
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« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2005, 01:47:48 AM »

Can you really blame them for being angry ? You put your cash down and expect to to get an honest run  only to see your horse break at the wire.  I've watched racing since I was 5 yrs old  I'm  in my late 20's now and I don't know anyone my age who would bet on racing because to much shit happens during a race  beyond the bettors control. Agood start would be the IRB enforce rules and standards. If a trianer is listed  down for a horse he should be the real trainer,If some asks who's the trainer of the horse I shouldn't say it bernar*i is listed but it's really g han*on who trains . This is also the sam reason I look at the entries at the big m first andwhen I'm ready to go to sleep I look at whats running at maywood/balmoral.
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RDUKE
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« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2005, 04:35:06 AM »

les,
im not sure what your suggesting......should the lapped on breaker be left on top? what can we do to remedy this so called problem?  that flat out is going to happen.  do you think we should race like we train horses who hit their knees, on the gallop? i guess we do not need STANDARDBREDS then.
rduke
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burton
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« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2005, 09:01:03 AM »

Having a few days off I thought I would take a drive to Northfield since I have never been there. I witnessed something I have seen far too many times in the recent past. I know stuff like this happens in racing but sometimes it happens at the wrong time. A group of newbies were next to us and were having a good time until the 11th race on Tuesday. They figured out that there was no money to be made on a 1/2 favorite so they bet on the second favorite who was 3/1. The second favorite collared the favorite and broke stride 2 yards from the wire. When they took the horse down, the all too familar happened. The programs flew, the cursing started and the credibility of harness racing was once again questioned. They left in a rage and vowed to never return. How many generations of future fans and bettors left with them? I've seen this happen so many times in the last couple of years it almost makes me cry.Something has to be done to improve the perception of harness racing or it will continue on its downward slide.

Les,
Great observation.
The tracks do nothing to educate the new fan.
They never have.
Most if not all of us learned the hard way.
Some of us still haven't as evidenced by many opinions about horses and in particular drivers on this site.
The track owners have us.
We don't demand more of them.
We accept a track with no air-conditioning.
On and on.
They still make money.
No impetus for the owners to change.
I don't have the answer.
But..getting back to your point.
The tracks need new fans and do absolutely nothing to educate them about the sport.
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off stride
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« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2005, 11:11:50 AM »

LES...IN YOUR HASTE TO TALK ABOUT THE GRIPING FROM THE NON-KNOWLEDABLE FANS YOU NEGLECTED TO TALK ABOUT NORTHFIELD ITSELF..I PERSONALLY LOVE THE OLD BARN... THE MICRO BREWERY...THE ALL ENCOMPASSING SIMULCAST PROGRAM FOR $4 BUCKS...THEIR CLUBHOUSE HAS PRETTY DECENT FOOD FOR DECENT PRICES...THEY HAVE SEVERAL PROMOS A YEAR...MYSTERY VOUCHERS..SANTA GIVEAWAYS..HANDICAPPING TOURNIES..HELL I REMEMBER AN OLD PROMO..WHEN EVERY 1 GOT A SHARE OF WHAT A HORSE EARNED OVER A 4 WEEK STRETCH..A PIECE OF THE TROTTER PROMO IT WAS CALLED...THEY GAVE ME A CHECK FOR 25 DOLLARS JUST FOR SHOWING UP...THEY ARE FAN FRIENDLY..AND ISNT THAT WHAT IT IS ALL ABOUT?Huh
« Last Edit: December 16, 2005, 11:13:30 AM by off stride » Report to moderator   Logged
Joe B
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« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2005, 01:05:43 PM »

The people at Northfield run a more fan friendly business than we do in Chicago....I've visited one time and it took me 30 minutes to figure that out.....but as Burton said earlier, we demand nothing of the track owners here......Chicago's handle is still pretty damn good considering the quality of racing we currently have.....so some of us continue to support the business we're all complaining about......and I also agree 100%.....we do nothing to educate the new fan.....how many times at Maywood do you sit in the dining room and half the place thinks the race is over at the half??.....How about putting together a little leaflet or something explaining the very basics to the new fan??  Does it take a marketing genius to figure that out??  It must, because the marketing geniuses in our town think that giving away chicago blackhawks hockey sticks and running a fantasy stable contest are gonna generate business.....
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dt2
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« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2005, 02:06:25 PM »

IMO

When people are gambling whether new or been around since the dawn of time there will be rage with most!

And I personally believe everytime a horse is disqualified or a favorite finishes up the track-- the driver should be automatically interviewed. Telling his side of it! While the money is still lost, the betting public still gets an explanation-- other than there automatic opinion of "IT'S FIXED".

I think there would be a whole lot less games being played also with 2-5 shots if there face had to go on the monitors 2 minutes afterward.
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cumonwire
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« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2005, 02:15:14 PM »

How much Education do you expect?

Do the Casinos explain every losing hand at the Blackjack Table?

Do the Cubs explain the in-field fly rule?

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burton
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« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2005, 03:41:01 PM »

How much Education do you expect?

Do the Casinos explain every losing hand at the Blackjack Table?

Do the Cubs explain the in-field fly rule?



The Cubs are on TV everyday during the summer.
Poker is on TV.
It's easy to learn about both.
Go to a borders and look at the baseball and casino gambling books.
Look for one on Harness Racing?
Good luckQ
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Claiming King
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« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2005, 03:45:08 PM »

I've watched racing since I was 5 yrs old  I'm  in my late 20's now and I don't know anyone my age who would bet on racing because to much shit happens during a race  beyond the bettors control.

Yeah, that's how I feel about football. I used to bet tons on football every week until Norwood missed that kick. I realized there was too much in the game beyond the bettor's control.
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Joe B
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« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2005, 03:48:37 PM »

I've watched racing since I was 5 yrs old I'm in my late 20's now and I don't know anyone my age who would bet on racing because to much shit happens during a race beyond the bettors control.

Yeah, that's how I feel about football. I used to bet tons on football every week until Norwood missed that kick. I realized there was too much in the game beyond the bettor's control.

intelligence at its highest level......
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cumonwire
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« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2005, 04:03:05 PM »

Burton,

Come on now, look at how much is available via the medium we are using.  You learned. And it is much easier to get started now.  You don't have to keep an eye out for a teller trying to cop your change.  You can go to any teller to make your bets.  When I started you had to go to 3 or 4 lines to bet your race.

Tracks have come a long way since I started.  Now, when there is a DQ the track replays over and over the infractions.  How many years ahead of the football instant replay is the harness tracks.  They've been showing the replays and judges angles for decades.

Poker is on TV?  What about craps?  There are plenty of games at the casinos I have little or no idea how they are played.  Even many of the slot machines are confusing.  

People don't come to the track by accident.  If they need help, they need to ask for it.  The loud mouth expert sitting right next to you will help you out, maybe even give you a winner.  Try asking the poker player sitting next to you for help.

Certainly, the tracks can do better.  But they should concentrate on the loyal customers first.

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burton
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« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2005, 04:04:57 PM »

Cum on wire,

Good points, but I'm talking about the sport itself and using that knowledge to become a good handicapper.
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cumonwire
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« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2005, 04:13:51 PM »

Burton,

On that you're correct.  Programs use to give good stories and news about the sport.  The cross talk you see on the TV screens by handicappers is terrible.  There should be a looped week-in-review video played every weekend at the tracks.  Something to get the Sport back into the racing, not just wagering.
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dt2
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« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2005, 04:38:12 PM »

cumonwire

education was not the point of my post. My whole point was simple. Take the focus off of "it was fixed" to a reasonable explanation.

And losing a hand at black jack-- if they dont know why they lost that they should be committed to a padded cell!
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burton
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« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2005, 04:47:22 PM »

cumonwire

education was not the point of my post. My whole point was simple. Take the focus off of "it was fixed" to a reasonable explanation.

And losing a hand at black jack-- if they dont know why they lost that they should be committed to a padded cell!

But how do they learn it's not fixed unless they are educated about the game?
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dt2
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« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2005, 10:04:27 PM »

Burton

you really want to educate GAMBLERS about racing HORSE'S. Go ahead, because I cant speak intelligent on that, as A MATTER A FACT I DONT BELEIVE YOU  OR ANYONE ELSE CAN !

When  I was asked what I wanted for my birthday when I was 4 soon to be 5, I responded TO GO TO THE TRACK ON SUNDAY! ( Which so happened to be my birthday).-- My father gave me twenty bucks TO BET  that day. ( a ton of money to a 5 year old in 1976 at QCD). i WAITED 7 RACES THAT DAY,not because I was a handicapper or I had a hunch, It was because my favorite horse was in that day, Driven by John Searle, MISTY CHOO CHOO. When I asked my father to put twenty to win on that horse, my father spent the next couple of races talking me out of it.       

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dt2
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« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2005, 10:22:08 PM »

CONT --- SORRY, ACTUALLY HIT THE WRONG KEY AND SENT THE REPY TOO SOON

but THERE WAS NO STOPPING ME. THANK GOD, BECAUSE AFTER A PARTING OF THE RED SEA THE BIG GREY HORSE GOT HOME AT A 100+ MUTUAL!

But the thrill that day wasn't the money for me, maybe I was to young to appreciate that it was in seeing my favorite horse beating all odds and winning!!!


IMO-- LETS NOT EDUCATE GAMBLERS AT ALL!!!-- LETS SOLVE THE TRUE PROBLEM-- LETS EDUCATE THE FAN - YOU KNOW THE FAMILIES THAT WOULD GO TO THE TRACK AND HAVE FUN!!! let's EDUCATE EVERYONE THAT IT IS FUN AGAIN ( not fixed).

HOW ABOUT THIS A $50 TO $60 COST PER NIGHT TO HAVE A VERY HAPPY PERSON GREETING PATRONS TH RU THE DOOR AN ASKING " WOULD YOUR CHILDREN LIKE TO GET THERE PICTURE TAKEN IN THE WINNER CIRCLE tonight?

Guess what there is nothing like it! 8 or 80 you feel special even if, it's only for 10 to 20 minutes.

Education,  you are right! Most have been!

Imo, you want to educate, let's start over--- because the fans(lack of) are what is plaguing us now, not the johnsons,boats, purse structure, and especially the degenerate gambler!       

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Idealtowne
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« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2005, 06:02:08 PM »

Nortfield, Well last night I watched the bret miller show I watched him win with and without the best horses and trips on friday.
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Les Moore
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« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2005, 01:41:47 AM »

Burton, I agree. The object is to attract new fans and bettors. The tracks should have a newbie stand where they can get help and feel wanted and appreciated all at the same time. This would also be a great public relations move. Lets face it, when us hardcore harness fans leave the earth, I don't see too many young ones out there to take our place.Like many other things in life the tracks are thinking about just now and not the future. I believe the sport is at a very crucial point and a move must be made to attract new fans.
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Kent Verruca
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« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2005, 01:35:36 AM »

Les I'm new to racing and I agree with most of what you say. I can tell you that my friends who gamble choose to play games were no brain work is involved like slot machines. They tell me that horse racing is all fixed because thats all they've heard. What they fail to realize is that slot machines are fixed so that the house always wins in the long run. As far as younger people being attracted to horse racing I just don't see enough of it. I happen to like it for many reasons one being I would like to win or lose because of decisions that I make. I noticed that some strange things happen in racing and some things appear to be not on the up and up.
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Les Moore
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« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2005, 02:43:04 AM »

A couple of years ago a friend of mine went to a river boat in Northwest Indiana. He is an occasional BlackJack player and knows the basics fairly well. He had a dream night and was hotter then hell. He started betting $20 and increased his bets to $100 when he started winning. When he got ahead $4000 they tossed him out for no reason. I never heard of anyone getting tossed from a race track for winning. Stick with it Kent, its a different experience every race.
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