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Author Topic: CENSORSHIP VS FREE SPEECH  (Read 1679 times)
MWG
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« on: January 03, 2007, 12:28:43 AM »

There's a lot of talk, lately, on this and other forums about the rights to "free speech". At BTW, the moderators, rightfully, exercise their RIGHT to delete messages which contain topics and/or comments that could be deemed sexist, racist, anti-semitic, hate-speech, or down-right distasteful. Posters who, notoriously, violate normal standards odf decency and behavior have been, should have, or, probably will be banned. The moderators of BTW give each of us sufficient latitude to argue, debate, and discuss topics of interest with a high degree of tolerance and we should be appreciative of said tolerance.

Now, as we all, know, a new so-called harness racing forum is now in operation, known as ***.com.. Quite a few former BTW members and posters have chosen to join ***.com., especially those who champion the right of "free speech" and could not accept the limited form of "censorship" that occurs at BTW. Proudly, the new forum proclaims that anyone can join their forum, can post any topic ( racing or unrelated ), with no limitations whatsoever, and that the topics will NEVER be deleted or modified nor will any member EVER be banned. Though not a member/poster of the new forum, I, as well as anyone else, can review, openly, all of that forum's topic of discussions and who posted what, when, or why.

A great majority of BTW members, as well as myself, out of curiosity, have excercised the right to "peek" into ***.com.. Most BTW members, like me, have found the forum to be totally distasteful and I, for one, am amazed as to the latitude given to posters. A great number of the posts contain topics or comments which are sexist, racist, anti-semitic, or are attempts to assassinate the character and integrity of often innocent people, all done at ***.com without reservation or limitation. The owners/operators/moderators of ***.com seem to encourage these activities and condone same. Right now, all BTW posters should review the most recent post at ***.com, made by Abbey Cain, and responses by others to get a clear picture of what is occuring at ***.com and ask yourself "do I want to be a member of any forum, group, or organization ?" that would permit such a topic of discussion.

In my humble opinion, if unchecked and without operating policy changes at ***.com, adopting the right to delete or ban topics or posters, ***.com, soon, will be inviting the public scrutiny of their activities by groups such as the NAACP, NOW, ADL, and others. And if you don't think these organizations, whose sole purpose is to combat racism, sexist, anti-semitism can not bring pressure to bear upon such a group of hate-mongerers, such as now exists at ***.com, you are, sadly, mistaken.

So, for all of my fellow BTW members/posters, be grateful for BTW and understand the need for limited "censorship" by our moderators. Their careful scrutiny of topics/comments will cause BTW to endure while others, like ***.com are doomed for disaster.

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Lovetotrot
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« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2007, 12:35:09 AM »

There's a lot of talk, lately, on this and other forums about the rights to "free speech". At BTW, the moderators, rightfully, exercise their RIGHT to delete messages which contain topics and/or comments that could be deemed sexist, racist, anti-semitic, hate-speech, or down-right distasteful. Posters who, notoriously, violate normal standards odf decency and behavior have been, should have, or, probably will be banned. The moderators of BTW give each of us sufficient latitude to argue, debate, and discuss topics of interest with a high degree of tolerance and we should be appreciative of said tolerance.

Now, as we all, know, a new so-called harness racing forum is now in operation, known as ***.com.. Quite a few former BTW members and posters have chosen to join ***.com., especially those who champion the right of "free speech" and could not accept the limited form of "censorship" that occurs at BTW. Proudly, the new forum proclaims that anyone can join their forum, can post any topic ( racing or unrelated ), with no limitations whatsoever, and that the topics will NEVER be deleted or modified nor will any member EVER be banned. Though not a member/poster of the new forum, I, as well as anyone else, can review, openly, all of that forum's topic of discussions and who posted what, when, or why.

A great majority of BTW members, as well as myself, out of curiosity, have excercised the right to "peek" into ***.com.. Most BTW members, like me, have found the forum to be totally distasteful and I, for one, am amazed as to the latitude given to posters. A great number of the posts contain topics or comments which are sexist, racist, anti-semitic, or are attempts to assassinate the character and integrity of often innocent people, all done at ***.com without reservation or limitation. The owners/operators/moderators of ***.com seem to encourage these activities and condone same. Right now, all BTW posters should review the most recent post at ***.com, made by Abbey Cain, and responses by others to get a clear picture of what is occuring at ***.com and ask yourself "do I want to be a member of any forum, group, or organization ?" that would permit such a topic of discussion.

In my humble opinion, if unchecked and without operating policy changes at ***.com, adopting the right to delete or ban topics or posters, ***.com, soon, will be inviting the public scrutiny of their activities by groups such as the NAACP, NOW, ADL, and others. And if you don't think these organizations, whose sole purpose is to combat racism, sexist, anti-semitism can not bring pressure to bear upon such a group of hate-mongerers, such as now exists at ***.com, you are, sadly, mistaken.

So, for all of my fellow BTW members/posters, be grateful for BTW and understand the need for limited "censorship" by our moderators. Their careful scrutiny of topics/comments will cause BTW to endure while others, like ***.com are doomed for disaster.


AMEN!!!!!!!!!!ALL THAT FORUM IS DOING IS DEGRADING THE SPORT OF RACING.  LOVESTOTROT
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race track phil
Guest

« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2007, 02:16:23 AM »

                 
                 I went an read the filth of a post about Joe dating a black woman
                 and most of the posters really blasted the idiot who started the
                 thread . but they mostly agreed that its freedom of speech which
                 I will never understand ! Freedom of speech in the constitution
                 was never intended to be used in the way it is at *** . I
                 wish they blasted when someones family is belittled with lies as
                 I've seen many times . Whats worse racism or impersanation or
                 spreading filthy lies about someones family ?  Bingo they all
                 should not be tolerated on any site especially a site thats suppose
                 to be about racing . Some of there threads like ( who's red and
                 who does she blow )  Ridiculous ! Yet it got a lot of replies !
                 Well again its everyones choice to post where they want , but
                 I believe the morals and principles in our society speak for
                 themselves on *** . I surely can and do swear like a
                 drunken sailor sometimes and that does'nt bother me , but I
                 will never never condone or participate the use of someones
                 name or slandering someones family members ! The site is making
                 money and maybe thats all that counts .

                                              geezer      RTP
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bigdaddy
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« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2007, 03:31:41 AM »

As you know I post on both sites, the problem is not " Freedom of speech " or " Censorship " It's the people  who know nothing about the sport that like to log on as different screen names.

                                                        They need to get a life and enjoy it, they get enjoyment by saying stupid, racist, lies about things they have no idea about.

                                                         Both sites have quality posters, it's okay to disagree on things. But when Families, Race, and unproven facts get thrown in the mix thats what can ruin a good topic.

                                                          I honestly can't see why a persons race would need to be brought up on ANY racing site.

Bigdaddy
Joe
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race track phil
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« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2007, 04:41:54 AM »

                 Big Daddy ,
 
                         There are many threads that start with a filthy title that get plenty of
                responces , because its allowed ! it seems like some guys enjoy the brutal
                threads or else they would ignore those that post lies and filth . It does'nt
                do any good to respond with remarks of what an idiot the guy is who made
                the post and swear at him and call him or her whatever and what a foul
                person they are ! The person that writes those brutal threads feeds off
                the responces there thread gets and is probably laughing that he has
                accomplished what he set out to do , cause a reaction to the posters
                who do have some morals . Its very clear that there are those who just
                want to help get the ball rolling and stir up the forum ! I personally think
                some enjoy goofs like Ritmo and enjoy telling him off ! It seems like the
                more action these threads get the more posting the site gets . Does
                anybody realize if a non racing enthusiast read some of these post's
                what would he think about the people who are suppose to be promoting
                racing !  I'm sure they would think these people are nuts and filthy with
                some of the post's . Tell a friend to read the site and ask him what he thinks
                that knows nothing about racing . I did and the guy said these people
                are nuts and could'nt believe what he read . sometimes its like a porn site
                for racing .  Its a responsibility for the moderator to control the inmates
                and that will never be done because its freedom for jirks and ***hole to
                get there nuts off slandering anyone they choose with lies and this same
                ***hole is sitting in a chair laughing and feeling how smart he is to cause all
                the havoc and no one can do anthing about it because he has freedom to
                do so ! If you hang around with a guy that stutters everyday it is a fact
                you will start stuttering also ( get my point )  One who eggs on filthy lies
                is no better than the ***hole that wrote them !  Who's the EGG !
                Posters say its just a few guys who try to ruin the site ?  Well guess what
                there never going to stop and will be there forever .
                                                 geezer     RTP
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Donny McCoy
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« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2007, 07:17:02 AM »

Really what you are talking about has nothing to do with censorship or denying one's right to free speech.  Free speech only goes so far, when it enters the realm of defamation or even slander its a entirely different right.  Defamation is a false and unprivileged statement of fact that is harmful to someone's reputation, and published "with fault," meaning as a result of negligence or malice.

US courts have established defamation/slander as:

-a publication to one other than the person defamed;
-a false statement of fact; that is understood as
 
a. being of and concerning the plaintiff; and
b. tending to harm the reputation of plaintiff.

The "injured" party can file a temporary restraining order or preliminary injunction against the poster.  The interesting part is if the "injured" party files a lawsuit the defendant will be dragged to court in the state the lawsuit was filed.  It pays to be prudent on message boards, you are not anonymous and it can cost you a substantial amount of money and time.

DM
 

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shooter
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« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2007, 09:05:13 AM »

i for one agree with big daddy,you coverd the bases.
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MWG
Guest

« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2007, 11:46:19 AM »

                 
                 I went an read the filth of a post about Joe dating a black woman
                 and most of the posters really blasted the idiot who started the
                 thread . but they mostly agreed that its freedom of speech which
                 I will never understand ! Freedom of speech in the constitution
                 was never intended to be used in the way it is at *** . I
                 wish they blasted when someones family is belittled with lies as
                 I've seen many times . Whats worse racism or impersanation or
                 spreading filthy lies about someones family ?  Bingo they all
                 should not be tolerated on any site especially a site thats suppose
                 to be about racing . Some of there threads like ( who's red and
                 who does she blow )  Ridiculous ! Yet it got a lot of replies !
                 Well again its everyones choice to post where they want , but
                 I believe the morals and principles in our society speak for
                 themselves on *** . I surely can and do swear like a
                 drunken sailor sometimes and that does'nt bother me , but I
                 will never never condone or participate the use of someones
                 name or slandering someones family members ! The site is making
                 money and maybe thats all that counts .

                                              geezer      RTP


RTP = Thank you for your response and though we may, likely, differ on many, if not most, horse racing issues, I believe we are, both, commited to the same personal values standards. And you, together with others at BTW, such as EW, Burton, Tonymfan, NJH, etc., have suffered the most by the condoned activities that make up a large portion of ***'s purpose and agenda. Your point relative to hanging out with "stutterers", causing you to then "stutter" is well taken. Case in point is one of the BTW responders to this same thread as well. Here at BTW, the responder offers comments in a civil, thoughtful, and courteous manner relative to the sensitive issue of "racism". Shortly, thereafter, the same BTW responder, starts a new thread on ***.com complaining he's just read a lot of "crap" about *** posters, on BTW, having no morals and felt it necessary to invoke the use of "F--- that!" twice, relative to our positions, which proves a point - "if you lay down with fleas, you're going to get fleas". It is utterly amazing, to me, that dual-forum posters offer posts, now, at BTW, in the most part, again, with civility, decency, and respect. At the very same time, these same, repeat same, dual-forum posters, when at ***, in most part, either feel compeled or are urged to make every argument, debate, and issue in forms which appeal to the worst elements in our society, not the best. I suppose people adopt varied types of conduct to play to whatever audience they're appealing to. That is, possibly, the greatest danger of a forum like ***. Whenever racism, sexism, anti-semitism, character assassination or impersonation become acceptable topic posts, unchecked by the forum's originators and moderators, too many of the forum members then believe that all types of behavior, no matter how despicable or tasteless, are acceptable and they must or will engage, eventually, in the same type of activities, in order to be found "acceptable" to that forum. The personal need to be liked or acceptable to a group, many times, compromises good judgement. ***'s own limited poll, to date, as to whether posts which are "racist", in nature, should be deleted reveals much. Most, so far, believe the racist posts should "not" be deleted. Though many *** posters, rightfully, condemn racism, the majority, to date, want no limitations on any subject, including racism, thus, by default, giving tacit approval to every other hate-mongerer, in this world, to post on this new forum, and another further opportunity to spew their vile messages to the general public. This, unfortunately, may well  be the great legacy of ***.com..
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edwardwilliam
Annnnnnnnnd they're off!
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« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2007, 11:48:17 AM »

RTP = Thank you for your response and though we may, likely, differ on many, if not most, horse racing issues, I believe we are, both, commited to the same personal values standards. And you, together with others at BTW, such as EW, Burton, Tonymfan, NJH, etc., have suffered the most by the condoned activities that make up a large portion of ***'s purpose and agenda. Your point relative to hanging out with "stutterers", causing you to then "stutter" is well taken. Case in point is one of the BTW responders to this same thread as well. Here at BTW, the responder offers comments in a civil, thoughtful, and courteous manner relative to the sensitive issue of "racism". Shortly, thereafter, the same BTW responder, starts a new thread on ***.com complaining he's just read a lot of "crap" about *** posters, on BTW, having no morals and felt it necessary to invoke the use of "F--- that!" twice, relative to our positions, which proves a point - "if you lay down with fleas, you're going to get fleas". It is utterly amazing, to me, that dual-forum posters offer posts, now, at BTW, in the most part, again, with civility, decency, and respect. At the very same time, these same, repeat same, dual-forum posters, when at ***, in most part, either feel compeled or are urged to make every argument, debate, and issue in forms which appeal to the worst elements in our society, not the best. I suppose people adopt varied types of conduct to play to whatever audience they're appealing to. That is, possibly, the greatest danger of a forum like ***. Whenever racism, sexism, anti-semitism, character assassination or impersonation become acceptable topic posts, unchecked by the forum's originators and moderators, too many of the forum members then believe that all types of behavior, no matter how despicable or tasteless, are acceptable and they must or will engage, eventually, in the same type of activities, in order to be found "acceptable" to that forum. The personal need to be liked or acceptable to a group, many times, compromises good judgement. ***'s own limited poll, to date, as to whether posts which are "racist", in nature, should be deleted reveals much. Most, so far, believe the racist posts should "not" be deleted. Though many *** posters, rightfully, condemn racism, the majority, to date, want no limitations on any subject, including racism, thus, by default, giving tacit approval to every other hate-mongerer, in this world, to post on this new forum, and another further opportunity to spew their vile messages to the general public. This, unfortunately, may well  be the great legacy of ***.com..

Good post, and I see you as dead on in this matter.  Although I probably wouldn't have posted there anyway, your clarity on the issue has pretty much made up my mind.

Have a great afternoon.

Best,
EW
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Stick to Fantasyland pal, because you'll NEVER make it in the real world - TC
MWG
Guest

« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2007, 12:00:46 PM »

EW - Thank you for your response. I'm not trying to persuade you or any other BTW member / poster not to become a member of *** but only to point out the considerable harm that an unchecked discussion forum
can, has, or will create and it, too often, is not in the best interests of society, in general, or to the sport of horse racing, in particular. And, of course, as you know I love horse racing far more than most people I know. Just kidding.
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tonymfan
Guest

« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2007, 01:09:25 PM »

You all wrote so much I had to go look. Disgusting. Honestly I feel bad for Joe. There used to be a troll that harassed Joe about that issue using that language on this forum. I reported the posts many times. Likely the same person with a new name.

What's important to keep in mind is it's his forum to run as he wants. Just like this is Janine's to run as she wants. He'll take care of things in his own way.
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race track phil
Guest

« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2007, 01:39:58 PM »

                Lets say you own a grocery store and you buy a bushel of apples and you see there are 4 or 5 bad apples . What do you do ?  you get rid of the bad apples plain and simple . nobody in there right mind would keep the bad apples and try to sell them with the good apples .

                                             geezer    RTP
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tonymfan
Guest

« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2007, 01:58:41 PM »

                Lets say you own a grocery store and you buy a bushel of apples and you see there are 4 or 5 bad apples . What do you do ?  you get rid of the bad apples plain and simple . nobody in there right mind would keep the bad apples and try to sell them with the good apples .

Unless you started your store as a home for bad apples.   Cheesy

Different philosophy of ownership. What we think of Joe's forum isn't going to change Joe's mind. The forum gets traffic and the offshore bookie advertisers don't seem to have a problem with what's written. Likely it's all that matters to Joe.

It's hard to ignore that site. Especially if it's you under attack. All of us on BTW should get over it. Go on with our own business and forum. Talking about it only encourages them. Then they accomplished two forums talking about them. One of my 2007 resolutions is try to ignore them completely. Already failed Grin but try to join me. No one really believes anything written there you don't have to take it seriously. It's no one you respect writing it no reason to pay attention to it.
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burton
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« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2007, 02:31:43 PM »

You all wrote so much I had to go look. Disgusting. Honestly I feel bad for Joe. There used to be a troll that harassed Joe about that issue using that language on this forum. I reported the posts many times. Likely the same person with a new name.

What's important to keep in mind is it's his forum to run as he wants. Just like this is Janine's to run as she wants. He'll take care of things in his own way.
Poor Joe.
Booooo whoooo!!!
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In stride
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« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2007, 06:04:52 PM »

i for one agree with big daddy,you coverd the bases.
I AGREE WITH BIG DADDY TOO. TALK HORSES AND STORIES OF HARNESS RACING.
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"put the horse in the box and use the arm&hammer
after you win the purse they will take you to the slammer"
race track phil
Guest

« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2007, 07:15:41 PM »

I AGREE WITH BIG DADDY TOO. TALK HORSES AND STORIES OF HARNESS RACING.
    Thats what we do normally !  just as much as the other site !

                                           geezer   RTP
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In stride
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« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2007, 12:01:43 AM »

SORRY PHIL, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER SITE NOT TALKING ENOUGH ABOUT HORSES AND TOO MUCH ONE CUT-UP AND RACIST SHIT AND SEX PICS Huh
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"put the horse in the box and use the arm&hammer
after you win the purse they will take you to the slammer"
shooter
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« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2007, 12:01:27 PM »

the other site sure trashes people alot,nothing but trashing.
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In stride
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« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2007, 05:59:16 PM »

ACTUALLY I AM GETTING TIRED OF ALL THE CHEAP SHOTS AND NON-HARNESS THREADS. IT'S JUST A BUNCH OF PRADDLE AND WAS CUTE AT FIRST, BUT GETS OLD FAST.
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"put the horse in the box and use the arm&hammer
after you win the purse they will take you to the slammer"
AmyHollar
FREE THE TROLLS!
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« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2007, 06:22:15 PM »

WAS CUTE AT FIRST, BUT GETS OLD FAST.



HEY!  That's what Buck says about me! Undecided
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Do you want cream with that cup of shut the hell up?
In stride
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« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2007, 06:24:30 PM »

 Roll Eyes Roll Eyes YEAH BUT HE STILL LOVES YA Kiss
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"put the horse in the box and use the arm&hammer
after you win the purse they will take you to the slammer"
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