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Author Topic: Mickey Burke Positive at The Big M  (Read 3833 times)
HUNGARY
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« on: December 21, 2006, 12:17:35 PM »

http://www.harnessracing.com/news_detailed.php?id=5954


DD......it looks like The Big M's testing is working on the PA cheaters.....  Erv Miller should be the trainer of the year. 
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the DailyDaley
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« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2006, 12:37:45 PM »


The Daily Daley has spoken AGAIN / Nothing but the TRUTH!!
« on: June 27, 2006, 12:38:30 PM »


From a June posting. Gee I was only 6 months ahead of schedule. You don't need to apogize.

Another point. The Big M has an agreement with the horsemen that if EPO is found in the horses system, the horse has to provide a clean sample before racing again. No penalty to the trainer, PERIOD. What got Rucker in trouble was his PRE-NUPT with the Big M saying he would be a good boy based on his "Chicago TROUBLE$" or should we say "PA$T PERFORMANCE$". If you want to find out what horses are on the EPO watch list, let's start having the Big M publish that list. And trust me there are more than Highland Pride A on that list. If they do in fact have a test for EPO anti-bodies, how many have been tested.

Hey Chri$, you listening.  Here is your chance for an ATTA-BOY. 

But then again, it would let the public really know how bad "IT REALLY I$" and how poorly you have done your job along with the NJRC.

After 15 years of HOT LUNCHES, they ALL truly need to go.

And then we get the Burke's $table slowing down after that dilator infraction. How many times do we need to see the Succeed advertisement in Hoof Beats with the Burkes stating my horses run on hay and oats? Sure they do Mickey. Unfortunately for you, most of us know better.

As I said before, if you owned a casino, would you want the USTA or NJRC or McErlean, Langley, Engel involved in any phase of the business. My answer is and always will be a RE$$OUNDING NO, NO, and NO.

The $PORT is "BETTOR OFF" without them in charge.

1 Down on a "BUYOUT" more to come.
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HUNGARY
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« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2006, 12:41:32 PM »

DD you called this in June....

Does this stable race on "Suceed" only in PA...or do they not test in PA?
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the DailyDaley
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« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2006, 12:50:25 PM »

Before I go any farther do you know what the Succeed is?
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the DailyDaley
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« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2006, 12:58:33 PM »

Before you get your "FEELINGS" crushed, remember this. The NJSP could not break down the Daley formula. Therefore "THE AGREEMENT" between the state and Daley.

Who does the testing for the BIG M NOW Wink.  Could it be they have outsourced that testing to competent testing labs Roll Eyes.

I would have to think that the testing the NJSP does is not as involved or in depth as the various labs the REAL RACE COMMISSIONS use, therefore the positives are down in a numbers game at the BIG M.

As I have said before and will again, not all labs have the same testing capabilities.

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HUNGARY
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« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2006, 01:00:22 PM »

I get HOOFBEATS...I saw the add where they say that is the only thing that they use....I also saw a add for Suceed in HOOFBEATS where Brett Robinson says that this is the only thing he uses (Holborn Hanover)!!!!!
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the DailyDaley
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« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2006, 01:10:04 PM »

http://www.succeeddcp.com


Good. You did your homework. Above is the link to the website should you want to visit.

As the "MORE GARBAGE" gets pumped in, the more ulcers the horses have. The more ulcers they have the more "TREATMENTS" they need.

Mickey Burkes VET BILLS ARE A dollar dollar dollar TOUNDING.

It isn't the training,  "IT I dollar dollar THE BOTTLE"
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njhorseman
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« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2006, 01:29:34 PM »

Before you get your "FEELINGS" crushed, remember this. The NJSP could not break down the Daley formula. Therefore "THE AGREEMENT" between the state and Daley.

Who does the testing for the BIG M NOW Wink.  Could it be they have outsourced that testing to competent testing labs Roll Eyes.

I would have to think that the testing the NJSP does is not as involved or in depth as the various labs the REAL RACE COMMISSIONS use, therefore the positives are down in a numbers game at the BIG M.

As I have said before and will again, not all labs have the same testing capabilities.



This was freaking Lidocaine positive, not some designer drug. Chances are pretty good that it came from a foot block or something similar. That's the usual source.

What any of this has to do with "Succeed", Noel Daley, "dilator" infractions (Can you fill me in on that one please? When did Burke have a "dilator" infraction?), McErlean, Langley, or any of the host of red herrings and straw men you're so fond of throwing up against the wall?
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the DailyDaley
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« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2006, 01:39:40 PM »

This was freaking Lidocaine positive, not some designer drug. Chances are pretty good that it came from a foot block or something similar. That's the usual source.

What any of this has to do with "Succeed", Noel Daley, "dilator" infractions (Can you fill me in on that one please? When did Burke have a "dilator" infraction?), McErlean, Langley, or any of the host of red herrings and straw men you're so fond of throwing up against the wall?

Were we speaking to you Wink. Get back in your "HOLE". If or "WHEN" you are needed, I will let you know.

Otherwise, SHUT UP Grin Grin Grin Grin.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2006, 01:43:50 PM »

Were we speaking to you Wink. Get back in your "HOLE". If or "WHEN" you are needed, I will let you know.

Otherwise, SHUT UP Grin Grin Grin Grin.

In other words, as usual you know nothing, have no facts, and are just blowing hot air.
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AmyHollar
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« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2006, 01:53:10 PM »

Lidocain is a Class II? Shocked Shocked  Let's see now..............everyone start going through your medicine cabinet............what all has Lidocain in it?  Hhhhmmm.......... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Once again a positive test that is going to make big headlines and get tongues a wagg'in when there are BIGGER FISH TO FRY OUT THERE!

The new wonder drug right Daley?  Made all them Burke's horses fly. Shocked  Big deal. Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: December 21, 2006, 01:56:28 PM by AmyHollar » Report to moderator   Logged

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the DailyDaley
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« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2006, 01:53:50 PM »

The point I was trying to make was Snake Venom?   Mickey's vet must have ran out.

Isn't that STILL a popular NERVE BLOCKING AGENT, NJ. You can talk now geezer.
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the DailyDaley
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« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2006, 02:05:50 PM »

Pyrilamine positive for Robinson.

Lidocaine for Burke.

Let's compare, you can't breathe, but you can with Pyrilamine.

Bad - sore feet / ankles - Can't walk, but you can run with Lidocaine.

Does it enhance performance geezer. You figure it out Grin.
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AmyHollar
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« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2006, 02:15:04 PM »

Feeding high quality grain enhances performance!  Making sure the horse gets out of his stall nearly everyday enhances performance! 

When is common sense every going to come into play in harness racing?! Angry
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DawgPound
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« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2006, 02:19:17 PM »

Lidocaine blocks are VERY short term!  You'd have to block one with Lidocaine in the paddock about 30 minutes before the horse raced to have it be effective!

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the DailyDaley
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« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2006, 02:47:02 PM »

Lidocaine blocks are VERY short term!  You'd have to block one with Lidocaine in the paddock about 30 minutes before the horse raced to have it be effective!

Which MEANS WHAT!     

MICKEY KNEW exactly what he was doing and why he was doing it Roll Eyes.

Maybe it was in the detention barn at the "HEAVILY ENFORCED
BIG M" Grin.

Wouldn't that be something Wink.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2006, 03:14:05 PM »


Maybe it was in the detention barn at the "HEAVILY ENFORCED
BIG M" Grin.

Wouldn't that be something Wink.

Sorry to disappoint you, but it was not a detention barn race.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2006, 03:25:07 PM »

Lidocaine blocks are VERY short term!  You'd have to block one with Lidocaine in the paddock about 30 minutes before the horse raced to have it be effective!



While its effects are short term, it is still present in detectable amounts for a much longer time. For example, Canadian medication guidelines suggest a 24 to 36 hour withdrawal (depending on how it was administered) in order to avoid a positive test.
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DLeestable
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« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2006, 03:31:47 PM »

Years ago a friend of mine got a positive on Lidocaine from a heel salve that contained it, but he didn't read the ingredients. It was something stupid like A&E ointment, but none the less it got him a positive.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2006, 03:33:18 PM »

Years ago a friend of mine got a positive on Lidocaine from a heel salve that contained it, but he didn't read the ingredients. It was something stupid like A&E ointment, but none the less it got him a positive.

Donna:

Your friend wouldn't be the only one to fall victim to an innocent-looking salve.
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DawgPound
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« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2006, 03:47:09 PM »

Years ago a friend of mine got a positive on Lidocaine from a heel salve that contained it, but he didn't read the ingredients. It was something stupid like A&E ointment, but none the less it got him a positive.
I do remember someone getting a positive for lidocaine contained in some linament.  I didn't know it was heal salve.  I don't know why nolvasan comes to mind...because I'm sure thats not it.

While its effects are short term, it is still present in detectable amounts for a much longer time. For example, Canadian medication guidelines suggest a 24 to 36 hour withdrawal (depending on how it was administered) in order to avoid a positive test.

I agree without a doubt, as is the case for many medications.   However, unless it was administered as a diagnostic, I'm not sure why anyone would use lidocaine as a block and risk getting a positive.  There are much more effective long term nerve blocks that won't yield a positive test.
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KING EPO
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« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2006, 03:58:55 PM »

Usually when people get lidocaine positives its a mistake by a vet. When they get a horse injected or blocked a few days before a race and the Vet puts it in on accident or doesnt know the horse is in to go within a few days. You would have to use it really close for it to really help, Like a few hours . And i don't know burke but i can't imagine he's dumb enough to use it on race day. Its common knowledge this drug tests and is usually a bad fine and alot of days.
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AmyHollar
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« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2006, 04:07:57 PM »

Usually when people get lidocaine positives its a mistake by a vet. When they get a horse injected or blocked a few days before a race and the Vet puts it in on accident or doesnt know the horse is in to go within a few days. You would have to use it really close for it to really help, Like a few hours . And i don't know burke but i can't imagine he's dumb enough to use it on race day. Its common knowledge this drug tests and is usually a bad fine and alot of days.

When I get my heel spur injected the skin is first numbed with lidocaine.  To make a big deal out of this makes a mockery of equine medicine.
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the DailyDaley
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« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2006, 04:23:38 PM »

I "THINK" Amy was at the GYNECOLOGIST when her heel was injected.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2006, 04:34:30 PM »

I "THINK"

Not a chance in the world...those aren't thoughts, they're the delusions of a paranoid schizophrenic.
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DLeestable
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« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2006, 05:04:57 PM »

It was heel salve.  Years ago Larry Curtis used it on a bad heel and got a positive.  Nothing was thought about it untill they read the label. Anything ending in "caine" isn't good.
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AmyHollar
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« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2006, 05:38:31 PM »

Not a chance in the world...those aren't thoughts, they're the delusions of a paranoid schizophrenic.


So that is why his comment didn't make sense? 8)
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« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2006, 05:44:55 PM »

brian pinske had a positive for lidocane and was thrown out because amino acids test close to lidocane. ask wilcox
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« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2006, 11:27:58 AM »

http://
Lidocaine blocks are VERY short term! You'd have to block one with Lidocaine in the paddock about 30 minutes before the horse raced to have it be effective!


Not necessarily.  If you use Lidocaine with epinephrine,  the effect is much longer. Some trainers will always try to beat the system. Sometimes they get caught.
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« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2006, 11:57:43 AM »

http://Not necessarily.  If you use Lidocaine with epinephrine,  the effect is much longer. Some trainers will always try to beat the system. Sometimes they get caught.
Regardless, even if you could get the block to last a month, using lidocaine for a block on a horse that is racing is absolutely STUPID!  There are much better blocks available that don't test positive!
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pork
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« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2006, 12:05:31 PM »

http://
Regardless, even if you could get the block to last a month, using lidocaine for a block on a horse that is racing is absolutely STUPID! There are much better blocks available that don't test positive!
Yes, and Yes.  My point was that it would not have to be done within 30 min. prior to race to still be effective.
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They Don't Know
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« Reply #31 on: December 22, 2006, 06:42:32 PM »

Now let's see if I am right..........

2006 Trainer of the year gets positve

2005 Trainer of the year gets several positives

My, My, how good this looks for our sport.
My question to all of you is, could either one of these top trainers win a trainers award without the drugs?

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samstar
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« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2006, 09:33:30 PM »

A FEW WEEKS AGO MICKEY RACED THIRTY HORSES AT 5 OR SIX DIFFERENT TRACKS ON THE SAME DAY.  i SUSPECT THAT SOME DIM WIT EMPLOYEE DID THE HORSE UP WITH SOMETHING THAT CONTAINED LIDOCAINE.
I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT A TRAINER WOULD BE STUPID ENOUGH TO PURPOSEFULLY USE A DRUG THAT THEY
KNOW WITH NEAR CERTAINTY WILL BE TESTED FOR.
EVERYBODY WANTS TO PILE ON WITHOUT USING A LITTLE COMMON SENSE.  IF THE DRUG WAS  A PERFORMANCE ENHANCER THAT WAS DIFFICULT TO FIND AND OFTEN NOT TESTED FOR I WOULD BE
SKEPTICAL TOO. 
MICKEY AND RON ARE ABOUT AS HARD A WORKING TEAM OF HORSEMAN AS YOU ARE GOING TO FIND. UNTIL SOMEONE PROVES THE USE OF PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS I AM GOING TO CONTINUE TO BELIEVE THAT MICKEY IS THE TRAINER OF THE YEAR".
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« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2006, 10:03:06 PM »

A FEW WEEKS AGO MICKEY RACED THIRTY HORSES AT 5 OR SIX DIFFERENT TRACKS ON THE SAME DAY.  i SUSPECT THAT SOME DIM WIT EMPLOYEE DID THE HORSE UP WITH SOMETHING THAT CONTAINED LIDOCAINE.
I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT A TRAINER WOULD BE STUPID ENOUGH TO PURPOSEFULLY USE A DRUG THAT THEY
KNOW WITH NEAR CERTAINTY WILL BE TESTED FOR.
EVERYBODY WANTS TO PILE ON WITHOUT USING A LITTLE COMMON SENSE.  IF THE DRUG WAS  A PERFORMANCE ENHANCER THAT WAS DIFFICULT TO FIND AND OFTEN NOT TESTED FOR I WOULD BE
SKEPTICAL TOO. 
MICKEY AND RON ARE ABOUT AS HARD A WORKING TEAM OF HORSEMAN AS YOU ARE GOING TO FIND. UNTIL SOMEONE PROVES THE USE OF PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS I AM GOING TO CONTINUE TO BELIEVE THAT MICKEY IS THE TRAINER OF THE YEAR".


Nice to meet you, Mickey. Welcome to Barn to Wire.
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pacehorsetrot
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« Reply #34 on: December 23, 2006, 09:46:54 AM »

now we have three tracks playing games==========i guess they are jealous of calexpo getting all the spotlight
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« Reply #35 on: December 23, 2006, 10:01:02 AM »

I must agree with SamStar on this positive. However I'm not convinced Mickey does not have an edge of some kind. Once you achieve the level the Burkes have you can send your own samples out for testing. Believe me several of the bigs use this method before drawing back too far on the big syringe. Sometimes even with the best technology you can slip up.  I raced against Mickey some 15 years ago and could beat his horses at will and pick up any horse from him and go on. Can't say I would be as brave now.  Lets get real high stakes,big stable racing in big business. Anytime big money is on the line there will be an element of corruption in any business.  dude
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bettor2belucky
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« Reply #36 on: December 23, 2006, 03:35:50 PM »

..........as if Mickey Burke actually makes decisions on the horses in his stable...come on this guy hasn't jogged or trained a horse in a few years .....just basically does the shipping..


Bettor
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« Reply #37 on: December 25, 2006, 11:54:03 AM »

bettor 2  It seems he should get the shipper of the year instead of trainer of the year or do they have such a award.
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« Reply #38 on: December 25, 2006, 08:03:14 PM »

I must agree with SamStar on this positive. However I'm not convinced Mickey does not have an edge of some kind. Once you achieve the level the Burkes have you can send your own samples out for testing. Believe me several of the bigs use this method before drawing back too far on the big syringe. Sometimes even with the best technology you can slip up.  I raced against Mickey some 15 years ago and could beat his horses at will and pick up any horse from him and go on. Can't say I would be as brave now.  Lets get real high stakes,big stable racing in big business. Anytime big money is on the line there will be an element of corruption in any business.  dude



they do his name is jordan ruben
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« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2006, 06:32:21 PM »

HuhHuhHuh??
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« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2006, 10:03:04 PM »

The problem with USHWA is that it has an anal compulsion to get its award nominations out before the end of the year so that it can maximize revenue for its Awards Dinner Journal and ticket subscriptions.

Had it remained mute on the matter until Burke has had a hearing it would not be in the pickle it is right now.

Having confirmed Burke as its Trainer of the Year Awardee as opposed to suspending his nomination pending a hearing and if appealed, pending the outcome of the appeal there would not be the controversy. Because USHWA "rushed to judgment" a number of influential organizations are considering cancelling their advertising in the Awards Journal as well as cancelling their dinner subscriptions, as they should. USHWA needs a "wake up call".
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njhorseman
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« Reply #41 on: December 28, 2006, 10:44:11 PM »

The problem with USHWA is that it has an anal compulsion to get its award nominations out before the end of the year so that it can maximize revenue for its Awards Dinner Journal and ticket subscriptions.

Had it remained mute on the matter until Burke has had a hearing it would not be in the pickle it is right now.

Having confirmed Burke as its Trainer of the Year Awardee as opposed to suspending his nomination pending a hearing and if appealed, pending the outcome of the appeal there would not be the controversy. Because USHWA "rushed to judgment" a number of influential organizations are considering cancelling their advertising in the Awards Journal as well as cancelling their dinner subscriptions, as they should. USHWA needs a "wake up call".

How would "remaining mute" have helped the USHWA? As soon as Burke's positive was announced people questioned whether he would still get the award. Do you suggest they should have ignored the questions? You may or may not agree with the position they took, but they had to take a position.

Last year Erv Miller had a positive under appeal, just like Burke does this year, and he received his award. I don't recall your complaining about that one. Oh yeah...Erv recently lost the appeal, but I don't see any groundswell for taking the award away from him.

Care to name the "influential organizations" that are considering cancelling their advertising or banquet tickets?

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« Reply #42 on: December 28, 2006, 10:48:56 PM »

Burke has not yet been chbarged with a "positive". Untile there is a hearing, he is neither accused nor guilty. Once a hearing is held, then the positive is ruled upon.

Pretty siimple.

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njhorseman
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« Reply #43 on: December 28, 2006, 11:15:27 PM »

Burke has not yet been chbarged with a "positive". Untile there is a hearing, he is neither accused nor guilty. Once a hearing is held, then the positive is ruled upon.

Pretty siimple.



No, it isn't that simple. He hasn't had a hearing because he requested a split sample test. However, the positive was reported everywhere on the internet, and confirmed by the NJRC. When the positive was reported, the question was raised about his keeping the trainer award. Here's what was posted on harnessracing.com (and pay close attention to the last paragraph):

http://www.harnessracing.com/news_detailed.php?id=5954

"Mickey Burke has positive
December 21, 2006

Harnessracing.com has learned Mickey Burke, recently named 2006 Trainer of the Year, has received a positive test for the Class 2 drug Lidocaine on his horse Doggone Incredible at the Meadowlands earlier this month. Burke, 70, is the leading dash-winning trainer on the continent this year with 433 victories, and he ranks second on the money list with $5,595,545 in purse earnings. He was voted the top trainer by members of the U.S. Harness Writers Association.

Doggone Incredible, a 4-year-old gelded son of The Big Dog, finished second in the $23,000 conditioned race Dec. 9, one length behind the winning Odds On BP in 1:50.1. He is a 15-time winner this year with earnings of more than $100,000.

Harnessracing.com has learned Burke has been informed of the ruling of the positive, which calls for a suspension and fine, and has requested a split-sample test be done.

There is no word as to whether Burke will retain his Trainer of the Year title. A few years ago Joe Anderson was announced the Trainer of the Year award winner but a subsequent revelation of a positive test resulted in that award being taken away."


By the way, you didn't answer my question asking you which, in your words, "influential organizations are considering cancelling their advertising in the Awards Journal as well as cancelling their dinner subscriptions, as they should."


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« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2006, 11:21:46 PM »

What was Joe Andersons positive for?
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njhorseman
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« Reply #45 on: December 28, 2006, 11:26:33 PM »

What was Joe Andersons positive for?

Somehow, I'm tempted to answer "What hasn't Joe Anderson had a positive for?" Grin

Seriously though, I don't recall. He has had a number of positives, including "black box" and breathing medication as I recall.
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« Reply #46 on: December 28, 2006, 11:28:18 PM »

Regardless, he is ACCUSED of giving one of his horses an unfair advantage by means of an illegal substance. IF found guilty, he certainly should have the title stripped away.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #47 on: December 28, 2006, 11:34:39 PM »

Regardless, he is ACCUSED of giving one of his horses an unfair advantage by means of an illegal substance. IF found guilty, he certainly should have the title stripped away.

I can't argue with you on that, but the issue raised by "Whiskey Wrists" was that the USHWA should have remained "mute"...to which I have said "how could they when the question was raised as soon as the alleged positive was made public".
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« Reply #48 on: December 28, 2006, 11:51:43 PM »

There was an article in Hoof Beats not long ago in which someone stated that we should not "air our dirty laundry for the public to see". Maybe that was the case here as there is absolutely nothing good that can come out of this as far as the public view of our sport. Of course I don't know how we could have kept it quiet for such a high profile trainer. The fact remains that Mickey is a great horseman and probably does deserve the award. It's a tricky situation.



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« Reply #49 on: December 29, 2006, 12:36:33 AM »

Mickey is no horseman, by his own admission. He is merely a shipper.
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