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Author Topic: TO KEEP OR NOT TO KEEP, THAT IS THE QUESTION  (Read 2371 times)
MWG
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« on: December 05, 2006, 12:51:01 AM »

i see the connections, of Bunny Lake, one of the greatest pacing mares in harness racing history, chose to sell her and she was sold at Harrisburg for $ 400 K. Now a broodmare, Bunny Lake, by Precious Bunny, was purchased by Hanover. In her career, Bunny Lake had a record of 93-47-20-14 $ 2.8 Million in earnings, and, only one of three female pacers to be named HOY, along with Fan Hanover and Rainbow Blue. Bunny's owners, by all accounts, certainly, did not need the money. Here's the question - if you owned a horse, like Bunny Lake, when and if would you ever sell the horse, with money or your health not being of any consideration to your decision ?

My personal opinion is "there ain't enough money to buy that horse from me for any reason whatsoever". It would be like "cashing out an old friend who not only more than paid her way but brought the lucky owner so many great thrills and memories".

What's your opinion ?
« Last Edit: December 05, 2006, 12:53:01 AM by MWG » Report to moderator   Logged
race track phil
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« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2006, 01:43:57 AM »

                   I personally could never sell a horse that was that good to me in racing .  All the thrills and cash the horse made for the owner , if the horse could talk she would after all the good years I 've given you and now you dont want me cause I 'm old now ! some people business is business and I guess thats why their rich . I guess I'm old fashioned where a close relationship with a friend or a horse in this case are more important than money ! IMO

                                       geezer    RTP
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RDUKE
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« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2006, 01:48:09 AM »

                   I personally could never sell a horse that was that good to me in racing .  All the thrills and cash the horse made for the owner , if the horse could talk she would after all the good years I 've given you and now you dont want me cause I 'm old now ! some people business is business and I guess thats why their rich . I guess I'm old fashioned where a close relationship with a friend or a horse in this case are more important than money ! IMO

                                       geezer    RTP

What if you don't have a place to keep a retired horse?
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thecorporal
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« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2006, 02:35:50 AM »

like so many other not so famous nice horses.  she gave her best years to greedy owners that later threw her away when she was of no use to them. sad but true.  money talks in this dying business.
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AlongTheRail
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« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2006, 03:34:23 AM »

like so many other not so famous nice horses.  she gave her best years to greedy owners that later threw her away when she was of no use to them. sad but true.  money talks in this dying business.

Hence the name "business".  In a business you're supposed to only care about dollars and cents, profit and loss.  In a business frame of mind, they did what was quickly profitable for them and of less risk.  Call them greedy, but that's the business of it.  What happens if they kept her and bred her to the best stallions, and then sold the yearlings at auction for 100s of thousands of dollars.  Would that make them greedy too?  Or if they raced these yearlings to become nice race horses, and then cashed out.  Would that make them greedy?  It would seem at any point where they were to make a dollar from the Bunny Lake name it would make them sound greedy, and the only satisfactory solution is for these guys to keep her in the backyard, never bred her, and feed her carrots until her dying day.  What they did is the name of the game, you bred and buy to race, you race to make money, and when they no longer race, you try to make the most money with your options, bred or sell.  This is the business side of it, sad and true.
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race track phil
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« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2006, 04:00:57 AM »

What if you don't have a place to keep a retired horse?
               I assumed the question was also meant to say if you were the owner of bunny lake ! that means your probably rich and can afford to pay monthly rates where she could have a home and do what you want with her ! if you want breed or whatever ! I kept a retired 8000 claimer at a riding stable till it was time to breed her and then I gave her to some nice people to breed her and give her a nice place to live . I never had the option because unfortunately I 've never been rich .  everybody has different reasons for doing things different in life .

                                                geezer      RTP
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« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2006, 08:05:55 AM »

I've kept horses that have made no where near $2.8M or even 1% of that amount!  Everyone has their reasons for either keeping or selling their stock...it's their choice.  I'm damn sure I'd never sell a horse that made me that much money however. 
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Robin Clements
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« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2006, 08:11:54 AM »

I personally would keep Bunny as a broodmare but as the owners stated they arent interested in the breeding end of the business and knowing Bunny is at Hanover the owners know she will always have a good home.
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2006, 09:34:10 AM »

I personally would keep Bunny as a broodmare but as the owners stated they arent interested in the breeding end of the business and knowing Bunny is at Hanover the owners know she will always have a good home.

Exactly.

For a financial perspective, it's a little tough to justify keeping her, IMO.  There's obviously a chance she passes, never really does all that well as a broodmare, or who knows what.

It's not like they sent her to the butcher, for God's sake, she went to Hanover!

Best,
EW
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« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2006, 09:37:43 AM »

  Methinks the Hanover folks will do a good job of trying to maximize her success as a broodmare.
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MWG
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« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2006, 10:13:52 AM »

Exactly.

For a financial perspective, it's a little tough to justify keeping her, IMO.  There's obviously a chance she passes, never really does all that well as a broodmare, or who knows what.

It's not like they sent her to the butcher, for God's sake, she went to Hanover!

Best,
EW

To me, it's not a matter of where she was sent, it's a matter of being sent anywhere at all. If she was my horse, she could come into the house, lie on the sofa, and watch the Bears play on Sunday, and be sipping a few "cool" ones. I mean, after all, she probably paid for the house, furniture, tv, and brews anyway.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2006, 10:16:16 AM by MWG » Report to moderator   Logged
talking head
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« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2006, 10:30:14 AM »

In my opinion it was a bad business decision! Bunny Lake is in foal to RocknRoll Hanover. That foal will be sold for a good sum of money.
I think the people at Hanover were more than happy to write that check!
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FreeLegged
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« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2006, 10:37:06 AM »

I would have kept her too. But it is easy for me to say that right now as I wasnt staring at that large sum of money. Another factor is that I believe Stark was part owner so it wasnt just one person's decision.
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« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2006, 10:41:41 AM »

                   I personally could never sell a horse that was that good to me in racing .  All the thrills and cash the horse made for the owner , if the horse could talk she would after all the good years I 've given you and now you dont want me cause I 'm old now ! some people business is business and I guess thats why their rich . I guess I'm old fashioned where a close relationship with a friend or a horse in this case are more important than money ! IMO

                                       geezer    RTP

Feel the same way RTP

To me, it's not a matter of where she was sent, it's a matter of being sent anywhere at all. If she was my horse, she could come into the house, lie on the sofa, and watch the Bears play on Sunday, and be sipping a few "cool" ones. I mean, after all, she probably paid for the house, furniture, tv, and brews anyway.

MWG  I'd serve breakfast in bed
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MWG
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« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2006, 10:59:09 AM »

You know, after winning the connections $ 2.8 million in earnings, and I emphasize the word "million", who gives a rats a-- if she'll ever be a good "mommy". Chances are she'll never produce an offspring of the same talent, no matter the sire. Owners need to put business aside, once in awhile, and be thankful they were given the rare opportunity to share time with these wonderful animals.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2006, 11:04:20 AM »

You have a healthy, relatively young mare, who has the potential to improve the breed by passing her genetic material on to future generations of horses. If you don't care to be in the breeding business, why not sell her? It's not as if she's going to the killers. Hanover provides a great life for its broodmares, even after they are retired and no longer breeding.
If you are attached to her, I'm sure you can bring her a bag of carrots on Sunday afternoons.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2006, 11:31:49 AM by njhorseman » Report to moderator   Logged
Old and Slow
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« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2006, 11:18:00 AM »

MWG, your caveat that money nor health be a consideration takes any business relevance out of the equation, and it becomes a decision based on emotion. I'd make my house, my car, hell, my bathrooms equine accessible lol.

A tough part of racing and breeding is business vs emotional decision making.

From a purely business standpoint, maybe a sound decision - but as Talking head points her foals are going to bring big bucks in Harrisburg.

If a person is in this sport/business either for the money or the appreciation of these amazing animals solely, making decisions is a no brainer - easy to go one way or the other. It's when you're in it for both reasons that it can get hairy!

The Hanover folks are to be commended for the way they care for their horses - they have pastures full of retired broodmares who are cared for until the end of their days.  And I think thats the way it should be.
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the DailyDaley
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« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2006, 11:50:07 AM »

What about that wonderful Monte Gelrod. Remember Red Bow Tie?

Monte offered him to the KY Horse Park. They told Monte to stick it where the sun don't shine.

Monte actually had thoughts of the other "ALTERNATIVE".

Luc stepped in and he ended up on Luc's farm in Guelph by Mohawk Raceway.

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njhorseman
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« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2006, 12:08:56 PM »

What about that wonderful Monte Gelrod. Remember Red Bow Tie?

Monte offered him to the KY Horse Park. They told Monte to stick it where the sun don't shine.

Monte actually had thoughts of the other "ALTERNATIVE".

Luc stepped in and he ended up on Luc's farm in Guelph by Mohawk Raceway.



 Total bull, Daley.

  Say what you want about Monte, but there is no way in hell he would have sold RBT to the killers or Amish. For starters, he didn't own the horse, and i can assure you that David Scharf would have found the horse a good home if Luc hadn't taken him.
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« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2006, 01:28:04 PM »

To me, it's not a matter of where she was sent, it's a matter of being sent anywhere at all. If she was my horse, she could come into the house, lie on the sofa, and watch the Bears play on Sunday, and be sipping a few "cool" ones. I mean, after all, she probably paid for the house, furniture, tv, and brews anyway.


MWG and RTP I am the same way, thats why I have bought/claimed no more horses. I have owned 2 and just the one I picked and wanted and he is just special to me and if I claimed/bought any more where would I put them all ? I just moved into a new house this aug. and am looking for a small farm now just cause of the horse. It sucks how bad the real estate is right now but if and when my horse is finished I  have found a stable close to keep him. I also want to mention my horse has made me 0 LOL and I still feel that way, I don't think it would matter if they made me 2 bucks or 2 million.  Grin
                                                                     trotter
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the DailyDaley
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« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2006, 05:31:48 PM »

Total bull, Daley.

  Say what you want about Monte, but there is no way in hell he would have sold RBT to the killers or Amish. For starters, he didn't own the horse, and i can assure you that David Scharf would have found the horse a good home if Luc hadn't taken him.

Maybe Mr. Reinhart can chirp in. Trust me NJ, Monte was a not, Scharf was a not, KY was horse park was a NOT.

LUC saved the day. And this is what Greg will tell if, if he tells the truth.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2006, 06:47:30 PM »

Maybe Mr. Reinhart can chirp in. Trust me NJ, Monte was a not, Scharf was a not, KY was horse park was a NOT.

LUC saved the day. And this is what Greg will tell if, if he tells the truth.

Interesting how you can make statements about people you don't know , never met, never talked to.
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2006, 06:56:45 PM »

To me, it's not a matter of where she was sent, it's a matter of being sent anywhere at all. If she was my horse, she could come into the house, lie on the sofa, and watch the Bears play on Sunday, and be sipping a few "cool" ones. I mean, after all, she probably paid for the house, furniture, tv, and brews anyway.

I'm going to approach this from a very different perspective.

Personally, Bunny Lake is no different than any other racehorse in the World.  None deserve to go hungry, and none deserve to be treated poorly.  She will be treated exquistely at Hanover.

This is about business.

Best,
EW
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2006, 07:00:01 PM »

You have a healthy, relatively young mare, who has the potential to improve the breed by passing her genetic material on to future generations of horses. If you don't care to be in the breeding business, why not sell her? It's not as if she's going to the killers. Hanover provides a great life for its broodmares, even after they are retired and no longer breeding.
If you are attached to her, I'm sure you can bring her a bag of carrots on Sunday afternoons.

 

Completely agree.

To speak to keeping her -- there's a good chance you might be able to realize a greater profit on her than what she sold for, but in order to do that, you need to accept quite a bit of uncertainty.

Let's put it this way -- if someone told you right now that you could have $400,000 or Bunny Lake -- what would you do?  I'd take the money.

Best,
EW
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« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2006, 07:21:02 PM »

I can see no other motive other then greed to sell a fine mare like Bunny Lake
Were the connections of Bunny Lake anything before she came along?
The owners of Taser Gun turned down 1 million several years ago
They bought him for less then 4k
And told me, he was theirs to the end, Noway they would ever consider selling him
And hes a gelding
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