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Author Topic: Meadowlands to put 2 Amateur races on the betting card friday  (Read 2804 times)
Phlegm Wad
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« on: November 30, 2006, 02:59:33 PM »

Have they gone NUTS?  Isn't it bad enough when we have ONE of these races on a card at the premier track in the world... but now TWO?

Races 1 and 2 - its the amateur daily double.  Anyone want to comment or handicap them??
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Mclock
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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2006, 03:01:28 PM »

Have they gone NUTS?  Isn't it bad enough when we have ONE of these races on a card at the premier track in the world... but now TWO?

Races 1 and 2 - its the amateur daily double.  Anyone want to comment or handicap them??




and 12 horses in each I think....2nd race the 1 should be good.

                                                                   trotter
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« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2006, 03:03:03 PM »

Big fields = better exotic payoffs. It's just the bad drivers that's on the horses, not in my favour.
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Phlegm Wad
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« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2006, 03:05:50 PM »

Thats funny - that spriggs dipshit has the nerve to enter a horse like Byzanz in the amateurs!

He must be desperate to feel good about himself... hahahah... what happened, Mr Muscleman wasn't available??
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poconomike
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« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2006, 03:09:53 PM »

Amateur drivers, 12 horse fields, rain and wind.... this could be a recipe for disaster
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Phlegm Wad
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« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2006, 03:32:11 PM »

I can just see it now

AND THEY'RE OFF AND CRASHING
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Mclock
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« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2006, 03:49:19 PM »


Hmmm....I thought our old pal Michigan Dale was spost to be in one of them races....wonder what happened   Huh

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njhorseman
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« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2006, 04:02:08 PM »

Hmmm....I thought our old pal Michigan Dale was spost to be in one of them races....wonder what happened   Huh

                                                                      trotter

He is. He's in one of the two non-betting Billings races being contested prior to the first race.
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Phlegm Wad
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« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2006, 04:12:05 PM »

so paulie know it all

what does your 25 years of trainer statistics and racebike data say about these races??
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njhorseman
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« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2006, 04:13:18 PM »

so paulie know it all

what does your 25 years of trainer statistics and racebike data say about these races??

It says "wait until race 3 before betting."
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Phlegm Wad
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« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2006, 04:21:58 PM »

Seems pretty easy to bet if we just go with the top 3 drivers in each race...

first race ( in pp order)
woogen
markoff
hatfield


2nd race
spriggs
shwartz
faroldo


thats pretty much all you need to know
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Michigan Dale
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« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2006, 04:35:15 PM »

Okay, gang, you flushed me out.   I wondered how long it would take for this subject to arise.   First up, as with ANY race, it you don't like it, don't bet it.   Next, I will be first to admit some drivers in the Gold Cup and Silver Cup Races appear to be in pretty darn deep.   On the other hand, I can assure you all that there are some drivers in there that can and sometimes do compete with the 'professionals' and they hold their own pretty well.   As I've stated umpteen times before, in these races IF you're contemplating making a wager, put much more thought into the driver and not the horse.   If you find one of the better drivers with a good horse, that makes the wager much more solid.  
     Let's remember, the Delvin Miller Amateur Driver's Association didn't card the races, the Meadowlands did.   They really rolled out the carpet this year, largely, I suspect since its the 25th Anniversary season of the CKG Billings Series.   While some may complain and moan about it, for the participants, at least for most of the participants, this is a huge thrill just to be there and while some take it more seriously than others it can be said that most are out there having fun for the pure joy of the sport.   Not a dang thing wrong with that from my perspective.
     For a middle-aged fat guy like me, who was not born into the business and must wear a sport coat most days to work, the exhilaration is enormous and my family and friends are very keyed up over this outing.   I'm in the weakest division, and its where I belong, in a non-wagering affair.   I thought I'd be setting a record for sitting behind the cheapest horse to ever set foot on the Big M track but as I look things over that may not be the case.   My view of things is that if I wasn't lucky enough to draw inside, then I hoped for the far outside and that's where we're at - #9 hole.   Works for me.   The horse has made something like 22 breaks in 39 races and with 8 different drivers in the seat, most all professionals, unlike myself.   IF she behaves, it very well could work out that we're going to be heard from at the end and maybe surprise some folks.   We'll have to see what happens.  If I were to actually win at this venue I may have a hard time not peeing in my pants.  If it rains, so be it.   I've had my best finishes in the slop when nobody could see where they are going anyway!   I will say this, just being there is pretty astonishing to me and I intend to enjoy every minute of the experience.   Now, the REAL problem is, I'm sitting in Michigan right now checking the God awful weather reports hourly and we're supposed to fly into Newark early Friday morning.   Get where I'm going here?   Could be I wind up not getting off the ground so if I wind up scratched you'll know why and figure I'll be bouncing off the wall.   Shoot, Saturday night I'm supposed to take my wife to Radio City Music Hall to see the Rockettes Christmas Spectacular.   Everything could go to pot.
     Bottom line is, I'm thrilled to be in to go, some of my very best friends are in this series, we've earned the right to be there on the sports biggest stage and nobody can take that away from me/us.   Frankly, for all the bettors out there, I'm very glad the race I'm in is a non-wagering affair.   I can hear it how if bets were down and I or the horse fouled things up.....
    Thing is, this often cantankerous mare and I actually raced pretty well at Balmoral a couple of weeks ago finishing 4th only 4 off the lead and 2 out of second place.   I felt we did pretty good ending up there.   Well, some 24 hours from now I should be in the paddock about now, getting ready to warm up OR I'll be scratched sitting here stewing about it in Michigan and watching the races on the tube.    Time will tell.
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Mclock
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« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2006, 04:44:07 PM »



I don't blame anyone for driving in them races I'd be there in a heartbeat  Grin...If you don't wanna bet on them can't say I'd blame anyone either....Good Luck Dale , Kick some ASS 

                                                 
  • trotter
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Michigan Dale
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« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2006, 04:44:26 PM »

Careful now, PW, sounds like you're contemplating a wager!   Your observations are good but permit me to muddy it up just a bit......in the First Gold you need to also know that Bob Troyer got this horse early in the year from Germany and was 'pointed' for this final, Tom Williams is on another Spriggs owned/Harmon trained horse (Ego Sum), Dave Drew has had a very fine year driving less than the best stock and for what its worth (yeah, I know, stuck in the second tier) Michelle Ruvola's horse (Source of Victory) was absolutely flying when she cut loose in Chicago on 11/12 - check the line.   Race could be more competitive than in the past.  A year ago, we all pretty much knew Spriggs was going to cap his season with a win in the Gold and he surely did.  
     In the Silver, I really concur with your observations but the 'wild-cards' are the Miller trained horses Bingham and Rompaway Ulaine.   These two, can hold their own on most any given day.   Ol' Bing won the Gold at the Big M some 4 years ago, Bingham and Ulaine nearly dead-heated at Balmoral Park back in June, they finished 2,3, at Balmoral with these same drivers earlier this month.   Food for thought.   This race, I don't see as evenly matched up as I do the Gold.   Good luck, whatever you do.
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race track phil
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« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2006, 05:03:52 PM »

                DALE ,

                            I'm sure you'll get goosebumps in that post parade ! I'm a little jealous that I never tried to drive a horse in a race , gotta be a giant thrill for you to drive at the big m .  well win the race and wave to everyone in the winners circle !  enjoy your big night .   

                                                   geezer    RTP
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Phlegm Wad
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« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2006, 06:45:12 PM »

Dale.. Im not sure you expanded enough in your describing how proud you are to be there...

are you very very very very happy to be there, or very very very very very happy?

please don't hold back.. please explain fully how emotionally fullfilled you are

As for the eastern stuff ... I saw some of the horses race in their lasts.  MR Constant had trot left at the Meadowlands, but now has fatass Oflenbugh driving who sucks and 2nd tier so you can add 3 seconds.  Todd Whitney drives every horse like it's Mack Lobell.  Over the Wire and Cello Hanover were in the same race.  OTW won, but that was with Gingras not Heckoff who drives like a moron - how did he manage to get that horse beat at pocono?  Cello Hanvoer was in that same race as OTW at Freehold with Markoff driving and was stuffed in loaded with trot - and he is the regular diriver of that horse against pros so what you see is what you can expect to get, not like these other frootcakes who add like 4 seconds to the horse when Pierce gets off and their fat ass gets on.  Same wilth Bangali - looked good at Medows with Palone driving,but the race before that he was in same race as cello haover at pokono with woodgen driving and got beat by 2 seconds..lBingham has a driver on him who hasnt won a single race in over a year so he aint goinna win here -the ulaine horse looks okay but his driver has won 2% of his races driving only against amaturs.   HATFIELD IS THE ONLY OTHER ONE IN THAT RACE AND DESPITE BEING IN THE 2ND TIER, HE WILL FIND A WAY TO BE RIGHT THERE, NOT THE OTHER 2 RATS
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Michigan Dale
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« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2006, 07:57:09 PM »

So, I guess I let my enthusiasm show did I?   You got me on that one.  Can't dispute your thoughts on Hatfield either.   They guy is a former national champion, knows his way to the winner's circle and I may be making a mistake by not factoring him in this time but I'll tell you why....first I think there are better horses in there with drivers that could be up to the task of beating him.  Next, his horse appeared very ho-hum in Chicago which surprised me.   Add to that the second tier....ugh.   However, Bud's a guy that could outfox them all.  We'll see.   Ol' Bingham is a horse that will help his driver and not the other way around.   He's lost a step or two over the years but he's an old warrior.   The real kicker is, Bingham would have been my drive at Balmoral  IF I'd have known one hour earlier back in early November that I was asked to drive at Balmoral.   He was offered to Bartley just that much ahead of my knowing I was going - something I didn't expect to do anyway.
Ulaine is going good and has been a surprise package this year.  Her driver has won with her before from well off the pace and if he is patient enough he could be heard from.   Not saying they'll win but they might get a piece.   Good to get your observations relative to some of the other drivers.   I do know many of them, but not all from out east, only what they've done or not done.   As for adding a few seconds due to being a big guy?Huh   I likely do that too, but I recognize it and accept it going in.   What happens happens.   Told my wife and our trainer that if its cold and I'm bundled up to be warm and possibly wearing rain gear plus having to wear the NJ required safety vest I'll likely look like the Pillsbury Dough Boy out there.   gggrrrrrrrr
Still watching the weather channel and getting airport reports.
......and Tall and RTP - thanks for the kind words.   I'll do the best I can.  Just cross your fingers the mare behaves.....that's always my biggest concern with this horse.    Generally her problems have been behind the gate and she needs to be finessed up in there which we've been able to do the past few times I've driven her.    Hope it stays that way......
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nomar
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« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2006, 08:15:56 PM »

Markoff by far the best driver in the 1st race, Cello looks like a nice horse too
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2006, 10:20:09 PM »

Does anyone care about the purse account -- which will be shorted somewhat (however slightly, it's simply the point of the matter) by these races being carded?

Best,
EW
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off stride
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« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2006, 10:23:56 PM »

Does anyone care about the purse account -- which will be shorted somewhat (however slightly, it's simply the point of the matter) by these races being carded?

Best,
EW

go dale and edwad .. that is just stupid
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« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2006, 10:45:59 PM »

Seems pretty easy to bet if we just go with the top 3 drivers in each race...

first race ( in pp order)
woogen
markoff
hatfield


2nd race
spriggs
shwartz
faroldo


thats pretty much all you need to know


The fact that you know the top three Billings drivers in each race is disturbing.
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Phlegm Wad
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« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2006, 09:57:27 AM »

Does anyone care about the purse account -- which will be shorted somewhat (however slightly, it's simply the point of the matter) by these races being carded?

Best,
EW


You ignorant and dislikeable little dweeb - what do you give a *** whether the purse account is shorted - you don't own any horses - so stop trying to sound like some higher-than-high diety instead of the compulsive neurotic pee-on gamling loser you are - your interested in the purse account... HA - if it doesnt bear directly on your pee wee little $2 exacta box, what do you *** care?

Anyway.. the answer is... NO .. its not shorted.   In the carded races the participants pay $200-$300 each as a starting fee ... on top of that, the USTA supplements Billings purses, and on top of that, these guys pay hundereds of dollars a piece before the season starts to join this ninnie freaking Delvin Miller club and that loot supplements purses.

Okay Mr Knowitall?  Now go back to your piddley litte handicapping in 1/16 of a mile increments you LOSER.
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2006, 09:58:51 AM »


You ignorant and dislikeable little dweeb - what do you give a f*** whether the purse account is shorted - you don't own any horses - so stop trying to sound like some higher-than-high diety instead of the compulsive neurotic pee-on gamling loser you are - your interested in the purse account... HA - if it doesnt bear directly on your pee wee little $2 exacta box, what do you *** care?

Anyway.. the answer is... NO .. its not shorted.   In the carded races the participants pay $200-$300 each as a starting fee ... on top of that, the USTA supplements Billings purses, and on top of that, these guys pay hundereds of dollars a piece before the season starts to join this ninnie freaking Delvin Miller club and that loot supplements purses.

Okay Mr Knowitall?  Now go back to your piddley litte handicapping in 1/16 of a mile increments you LOSER.


The betting handle funds part of the purses.  The handle will be down for these races.  This will negatively impact the purse account.

I'm speaking NOTHING of the purse money itself.

Best,
EW
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Phlegm Wad
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« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2006, 10:31:41 AM »

The betting handle funds part of the purses.  The handle will be down for these races.  This will negatively impact the purse account.

I'm speaking NOTHING of the purse money itself.

Best,
EW

Your a fool... again.. I repeat... the drivers, USTA and Billings pay a substantial amount of the purses.   Even if NOBODY bet, it wouldn't really affect the purse account.  OK??   

And, for the record, more and more of these amateur races that used to be NON WAGERING are now being put on the cards at various tracks and in states where they NEVER put them on the card.  This is an all time first for the Meadowlands to put 2 on the card.  Why do you think these other tracks (NY, NJ, PA, MA, VA,) ... seems like everywhere but Delaware in the east had Harrahs -- they all want these races on the card... you know why Mr. Einstein?-- you think they would put these races on the cards if it was a drain on their purse accounts you brainfart?? 

Yeah ... I looked at last years and saw that the WPS pools for the finals at M(1) were marginally less than the other races, but if the WPS pool is 4 grand short, at 18% take.. whats that, less than 800 bucks?  Jeez.. they *** throw away more than 800 bucks of dead hot dogs and shrimp cocktails at the end of each night.
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2006, 10:42:12 AM »

Quote
Your a fool... again.. I repeat... the drivers, USTA and Billings pay a substantial amount of the purses.   Even if NOBODY bet, it wouldn't really affect the purse account.  OK??   

I know the purse money doesn't all come from the purse account for the race.  Like I said in my past post, I'm not talking about that.

If NOONE bet the race, and they were out about $300-400k in handle, even at a marginal 5%, it would cost the purse account $15-20k.  So, obviously, these things matter.

Quote
And, for the record, more and more of these amateur races that used to be NON WAGERING are now being put on the cards at various tracks and in states where they NEVER put them on the card.  This is an all time first for the Meadowlands to put 2 on the card.  Why do you think these other tracks (NY, NJ, PA, MA, VA,) ... seems like everywhere but Delaware in the east had Harrahs -- they all want these races on the card... you know why Mr. Einstein?-- you think they would put these races on the cards if it was a drain on their purse accounts you brainfart?? 

There's no doubt that it's a cost.  Do you not dispute the fact that there's less money bet on these races?

In the past, there were far more horses at each track.  Might be a possible reason these races are finding their way into the cards.

Quote
Yeah ... I looked at last years and saw that the WPS pools for the finals at M(1) were marginally less than the other races, but if the WPS pool is 4 grand short, at 18% take.. whats that, less than 800 bucks?  Jeez.. they *** throw away more than 800 bucks of dead hot dogs and shrimp cocktails at the end of each night.

Let's say handle is off 10%.  At $200k per race, that's $40k in handle.  At 5%, that's $2k in money wasted.  For what?  To give bettors a crappy betting race?  Finally, who cares about hot dogs and shrimp?  Those don't come from the purse account.

I'm not saying it's a ground-breaking amount of money.  It's simply something no one seems to mention.

Best,
EW
« Last Edit: December 01, 2006, 10:44:09 AM by edwardwilliam » Report to moderator   Logged

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