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Author Topic: Hawthorne surface  (Read 3700 times)
CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2006, 03:00:26 PM »

Clocker,

It rained Wednesday (yesterday) at Hawthorne? I mut have been taking a nap.

Not that I know, but I wasn't there.

It rained Monday or Tuesday by my house, meaning it also might have rained at Hawthorne, possibly meaning a different moisture content in the track by Wednesday than what was there the last racing day, Sunday, also possibly meaning a different maintenance program during those few days than the few days that had come before, all of which might be reflected in the final track condition by Wednesday racing.

Do you know the entire detailed weather history at Hawthorne between Sunday and Wednesday, and what the recommended track maintenance steps are to translate those into "fair track" as you perceive it?
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2006, 03:10:47 PM »

Those of you who have Scott McManniss' ear, this sounds like a great topic for a "news you can use" column in the program. An interview with the track super to say what goes into preparing the track under what weather conditions, and how that might affect the subsequent running of races.
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Trackman
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« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2006, 05:15:26 PM »

"What a joke the track was on Wednesday.  People thought the CD track was biased Breeders Cup day?  That was NOTHING to how great the rail was at Hawthorne on Wednesday.  Do they even have a maintenance crew?  They must've forgotten to come to work for Wednesday."

Why is that a problem? Anyone who watched the first two or three races could have spotted the bias and made some money.
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Moon
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« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2006, 06:20:40 PM »

Those of you who have Scott McManniss' ear, this sounds like a great topic for a "news you can use" column in the program. An interview with the track super to say what goes into preparing the track under what weather conditions, and how that might affect the subsequent running of races.

I've seen this several times over the past 20 years on one or other of the racing shows. It isn't like when they talk to the Sox grounds keeper. It's mostly just hemming and hawing and like talking to your garbage man about recycling. Not much going on there.
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David
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« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2006, 07:02:39 PM »

If Hawthorne really wanted to do what was good for Illinois racing they would let the buggy's go and put in a polytrack that would undoubtably be safer and more consistant than what we have now. Who knows that might even put enough pressure on Arlington to put in a polytrack and get us on even footing with California, Keeneland and Turfway. What owner would not rather run for the same money at Turfway on a safe track as opposed to a frozen track at Hawthorne in December? However that would cost millions and last I looked ownership in Illinois was not interested in investing in Illinois racing without slots! Seems like an endless circle that is destined to crash and burn!!!!

Maybe you can run harness on Poly after all, last week they had a test race on Keenelands poly track with harness horses, appeared promising but far from perfect.

http://www.harnessracing.com/news_detailed.php?id=5742
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Trackman
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« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2006, 07:38:46 PM »

"No one besides me thinks Oaklawn is an extremely speed biased track? Or that GP, before it got replaced, had some serious rail bias going on?

Louisiana Downs is "cheatin' jockey" biased. There's also the "Cole Norman bias". "

Terry,

I have to disagree with your OP comment. I've done well betting deep closers there. As far as GP, I agree. I also agree that ANY Louisiana track is in your words, a "cheatin' jockey" biased track." Trainers also (Michael Pino).  If you know the cheating trainers and jocks, you can make a lot of money. Sometimes handicapping is more reading between the lines than selecting the best horse.
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jrstark
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« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2006, 09:01:53 PM »

Quote
Saratoga and Belmont don't run in the winter.  The others are southern tracks.

What does that have to do with having an honest race track? No excuse for the way the track is now and you can't use weather. An excuse is an admission of failure.

You wrote:
Quote from: mel4600 on Today at 12:16:53 PM
Quote
Fairgrounds, Oaklawn, Saratoga, Belmont, Gulfstream and Louisiana Downs to name a few. There can always be a bias on a given day due to moisture and other things, however, that just usuall lasts a day or two. Most races are being run in 112's 113's 114's. In the middle of December they will peel Hawthorne and you will see $5K claimers going in the 109's.

Where did you ask about an honest track?  You were asking about speed in December at a winter track vs. speed at other tracks.  That's what I responded to.
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Jim C
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« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2006, 03:02:35 AM »

First of all there is no way Hawthorne is ever going to drop the harness meet, they make too much money from the harness meet, far more then on T-breds. Like Trackman I am not 100% sold on poly or any other kind of oly track yet. Too many problems at Hollywood already that need to be looked into and worked out. One thing to remember and kudos to Justin for pointing this out at the last meeting that when polytrack or any other artificial surface is put in ALL the areas must have the same surface, all the trails and paths to the track and the barns too as there cant be any "contamination" of the surface on the track. So larger area tracks like AP have far more areas in size to replace and thus makes it much more expensive for them to change over. Hawthorne wont do it as I said because they will not drop the harness meet.

Sure would have been nice if they were committed to staying where they are to have bought the Sportsmans land, taken down both tracks and rebuild going north and south instead of east and west as it is now. They could have had a much larger track, maybe in a set up like Woodbine with individual harness, t-bred and turf tracks.....oh well nice to dream lol
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John Frank
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« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2006, 05:52:06 AM »

Jannine: Could you see if you can set up a seperate page for arguing like they have at Horse Argue. com. Thank You.
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2006, 07:29:17 AM »

Jannine: Could you see if you can set up a seperate page for arguing like they have at Horse Argue. com. Thank You.

Janine: While you are at it, please see if you can set up a separate page for incoherent babble like they have at All_John Frank_All The Time.com. Thank you.       
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Moon
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« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2006, 02:27:13 PM »

Ha! That was a good one, John Frank.

And another good one by Horse Voice.

Cheesy
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mel4600
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« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2006, 02:59:13 PM »

You wrote:
Quote from: mel4600 on Today at 12:16:53 PM
Where did you ask about an honest track?  You were asking about speed in December at a winter track vs. speed at other tracks.  That's what I responded to.


I have been talking about a consistent honest surface all along without changes day to day not attributed to weather.
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mel4600
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« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2006, 03:00:49 PM »

Jannine: Could you see if you can set up a seperate page for arguing like they have at Horse Argue. com. Thank You.

John,

We are not arguing here, we are having a good discussion about Hawthorne's racing surface.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2006, 06:12:05 PM »

John,

We are not arguing here, we are having a good discussion about Hawthorne's racing surface.

Well, it isn't about John Frank and his many trials and tribulations at the hands of the cruel world, so obviously it's a waste of time on this horse racing forum.  Roll Eyes
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mel4600
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« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2006, 05:40:38 PM »

Since I criticized the surface earlier this week I now have to give them credit. The surface has been even and honest the last 2 days. Hope they can maintain it.
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John Frank
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« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2006, 05:58:32 PM »

Don't you get it. To confuse all you idiots,it's done on purpose. It all depends on what was decided previous night on which trainers and owners will win next day. And forget about shake for post positions. That is also put in order. And THEY WANT YOU TO *** ABOUT A BIAS. That takes away from what is really going on.
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Moon
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« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2006, 07:58:47 PM »

You know, if you are AT the track, you are allowed to go down to the rail and LOOK at the surface. After a few times looking at it, you will KNOW what the bias is.
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jrstark
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« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2006, 08:37:32 PM »

Since I criticized the surface earlier this week I now have to give them credit. The surface has been even and honest the last 2 days. Hope they can maintain it.

And how has the weather been lately?

That's why short summer meets have honest tracks too, the weather cooperates.
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