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Author Topic: One thing is clear about Morgan..  (Read 5806 times)
baron
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« on: December 12, 2005, 06:25:04 PM »

..although he can win against a 2nd tier colony like Dover and Balmoral/Maywood have, when the big boys come to town, it's crystal clear that Morgan is not in the same ballpark as them. Pierce, Miller and Sears are just heads and shoulders above him.

Not taking away from his success so far at Dover, just giving a reality check to those who think he can hang with the big boys. He can't.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2005, 06:41:45 PM »

..although he can win against a 2nd tier colony like Dover and Balmoral/Maywood have, when the big boys come to town, it's crystal clear that Morgan is not in the same ballpark as them. Pierce, Miller and Sears are just heads and shoulders above him.

Not taking away from his success so far at Dover, just giving a reality check to those who think he can hang with the big boys. He can't.


On days when the "bog boys" are there, I'll bet he isn't getting drives on horses that are nearly as good as his drives on other days.
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Joe B
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« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2005, 07:02:21 PM »

..although he can win against a 2nd tier colony like Dover and Balmoral/Maywood have, when the big boys come to town, it's crystal clear that Morgan is not in the same ballpark as them. Pierce, Miller and Sears are just heads and shoulders above him.

Not taking away from his success so far at Dover, just giving a reality check to those who think he can hang with the big boys. He can't.


So Morgan cant hang with the three best drivers on the continent....thats really saying a lot.  baron - you cant name 7 others who are better than Morgan, can you?  that means he's top 10...and that means he's great.  For those who disagree, lets see your list of 7 guys better than Morgan ( Not including sears Pierce and D miller )......no one can come up with a serious list...Joe B
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trotter1
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« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2005, 07:20:40 PM »

I would put Morgan at #6 behind the 3 mentioned already and Cat Manzi/Dave Magee.

However, out of the top 6 drivers in the country, if I had a $4,000 claimer that I
wanted to win on (and all drivers happened to be available to put down on the horse)
Morgan would be my man--especially if the horse would be at a bit of a price.

If I had a horse in a $250,000 race and all 7 drivers were available to put down on my
horse, Morgan would be my LAST choice to put down on the horse
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trotter1
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« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2005, 07:23:33 PM »

Correction on last sentence to state "6" drivers.
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Zulu
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« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2005, 08:03:42 PM »

So Morgan cant hang with the three best drivers on the continent....thats really saying a lot.  baron - you cant name 7 others who are better than Morgan, can you?  that means he's top 10...and that means he's great.  For those who disagree, lets see your list of 7 guys better than Morgan ( Not including sears Pierce and D miller )......no one can come up with a serious list...Joe B

John Campbell
Dave Palone
Luc Oullette
Walter Case (who knows he may make a comeback)
Dave Magee
George Brennan
Howard Parker(another comebacker)
Jim Pantelano
Eric Ledford

I gave you one extra just in CASE
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baron
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« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2005, 08:14:09 PM »

But i keep hearing on the days the big boys aren't there, he is getting hte better horses.. All relative, isn't it?


On days when the "bog boys" are there, I'll bet he isn't getting drives on horses that are nearly as good as his drives on other days.
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baron
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« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2005, 08:15:44 PM »

LOL, this is absolutely hilarious. You don't like money do you?


However, out of the top 6 drivers in the country, if I had a $4,000 claimer that I
wanted to win on (and all drivers happened to be available to put down on the horse)
Morgan would be my man--especially if the horse would be at a bit of a price.

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SUPERMAN
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« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2005, 08:18:18 PM »

I would put Morgan at #6 behind the 3 mentioned already and Cat Manzi/Dave Magee.

However, out of the top 6 drivers in the country, if I had a $4,000 claimer that I
wanted to win on (and all drivers happened to be available to put down on the horse)
Morgan would be my man--especially if the horse would be at a bit of a price.

If I had a horse in a $250,000 race and all 7 drivers were available to put down on my



horse, Morgan would be my LAST choice to put down on the horse




Great post and I believe it would be 100% true
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baron
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« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2005, 08:20:33 PM »

I agree with your list except for Parker, Panteleano and Palone.. No way Parker and Panteleano, maybe Palone.

I think Sears, Pierce, Miller are in another atmosphere than Morgan (or anyone else). Luc, Magee, Brennan, JC and Manzi are the next tier. Palone, Ledford, maybe Morgan in the next tier..



John Campbell
Dave Palone
Luc Oullette
Walter Case (who knows he may make a comeback)
Dave Magee
George Brennan
Howard Parker(another comebacker)
Jim Pantelano
Eric Ledford

I gave you one extra just in CASE

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Zulu
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« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2005, 08:25:33 PM »

baron

I have always liked Sears as driver too , even when he was at Pompano.
I`m just upset he tarnished his reputation lately but we all have pitfalls in our lifetime

I was just naming 7 others for Joe B aside from the ones you listed originally.
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baron
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« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2005, 08:27:21 PM »

Yeah, guys like JC, Pierce, Miller, Magee are rare breed.. Classy and talented..

For every one of them, there's 10 Panteleano's and Case's and Ward's


baron

I have always liked Sears as driver too , even when he was at Pompano.
I`m just upset he tarnished his reputation lately but we all have pitfalls in our lifetime

I was just naming 7 others for Joe B aside from the ones you listed originally.
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Dan Villeky
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« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2005, 08:38:38 PM »

Wasn't that long ago Miller left his base in Ohio and moved to the Meadowlands. The very same people were saying the very same thing about him as y'all are spewing about Morgan. "The drivers colony at the Big M will eat him up and spit him all the way back to Scioto Downs".
Suddenly he is in a select class of driver HuhHuh?
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baron
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« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2005, 09:12:58 PM »

Well if Morgan ever takes on the challenge of facing the big boys, we can talk about that.. until then, we'll just have to watch him get schooled by them at Dover.


Wasn't that long ago Miller left his base in Ohio and moved to the Meadowlands. The very same people were saying the very same thing about him as y'all are spewing about Morgan. "The drivers colony at the Big M will eat him up and spit him all the way back to Scioto Downs".
Suddenly he is in a select class of driver HuhHuh?

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Careyscardshark
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« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2005, 09:58:49 PM »

Baron, why do you hate Morgan so much.  I guarantee you Morgan would hold his own at the Meadowlands, win 4-5 a night?  No.  Win as much as Brennan, Ledford, Gingras, Miller ect.? Definately.  I'm happy you are going to say Morgan can't hang with the big boys after one Monday night at Dover in which by no means did Morgan "Not hang with the big boys".  There is a reason he is 2nd in wins right now in the country.  Quit trying to overlook it.  Give the guy some credit.  Your anti-Morgan threads are getting old.  Here are the stats from Monday between 3 of the big names and Morgan who had relatively the same amount of drives.
Driver    1st   2nd   3rd

Morgan    1     3      4

Pierce      1     2      3

Miller       1     4      0

Sears       4      1      1

Besides Sears looks pretty even to me with Morgan actually having a slight edge over the other two.  Thanks Baron have a nice day!
« Last Edit: December 12, 2005, 10:13:12 PM by Careyscardshark » Report to moderator   Logged
baron
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« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2005, 10:20:01 PM »

Don't hate Morgan at all. Think he is a very good 2nd tier driver..

Please don't compare him to Miller, it's insulting to Miller..

It's not one night bub, it's a lot of nights.. Don't compare Morgan to the big boys, you look stupid.. Get real.. Thanks



Baron, why do you hate Morgan so much.  I guarantee you Morgan would hold his own at the Meadowlands, win 4-5 a night?  No.  Win as much as Brennan, Ledford, Gingras, Miller ect.? Definately.  I'm happy you are going to say Morgan can't hang with the big boys after one Monday night at Dover in which by no means did Morgan "Not hang with the big boys".  There is a reason he is 2nd in wins right now in the country.  Quit trying to overlook it.  Give the guy some credit.  Your anti-Morgan threads are getting old.  Here are the stats from Monday between 3 of the big names and Morgan who had relatively the same amount of drives.
Driver    1st   2nd   3rd

Morgan    1     3      4

Pierce      1     2      3

Miller       1     4      0

Sears       4      1      1

Besides Sears looks pretty even to me with Morgan actually having a slight edge over the other two.  Thanks Baron have a nice day!

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davenchop
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« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2005, 11:16:20 PM »

morgan is as good as anyone in the us and canada.... im not saying hes better but just as good. i remember back in 85 or 86 when he first came to balmoral 5/8 track from fairmount. i knew right then he was something special... Roll Eyes
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ruckerfan
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« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2005, 11:42:59 PM »

zulu after your post of 7 drivers i think u are another f****ng idiot on here!
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keep the fight up ken it ant over i hope u useing the rope a dope im getting worried!!!
swoodall
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« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2005, 12:25:31 AM »

Ruckerfan

Now you have your head up Morgan's ass too!  Do you ever come out for air(c3po)?
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baron
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« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2005, 12:29:02 AM »

Which of the 7 drivers he listed are not better than Morgan? Just curious

zulu after your post of 7 drivers i think u are another f****ng idiot on here!
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swoodall
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« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2005, 12:37:41 AM »

Baron

All are better!  They don't control races through ghost ownership to win races.  The Delaware driver colony is only slightly better than Lebanon's.
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baron
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« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2005, 12:43:24 AM »

That's just stupid to say.. seriously.. even for you


Baron

All are better!  They don't control races through ghost ownership to win races.  The Delaware driver colony is only slightly better than Lebanon's.
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swoodall
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« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2005, 01:28:28 AM »

Which part?  There are three separate statements and all are TRUE!  Only the ghost ownership needs clarification.  Morgan was involved behind the scenes as owner in races where there was more than one horse in the race that he had some connection with.  Hence the control factor but more of a gambling factor.  His record at non-bush league tracks speaks for itself.  He gets his ass handed to him by the better drivers.  That's why Pompano and Dover were his first choices.  If money was the true driving force he would have selected the Meadowlands to prove he belongs.

You have confused purse structure with competition.  Dover's regular driver colony is BUSH League!  Slots have increased their purses from 1500 to 15000.  The reason they have so many Delaware owned or bred races is to keep competition OUT!  How many races has Morgan won when competing against Sears,  Miller,  Pierce and other top drivers?  Don't answer,  he only has to race against them on Mondays and he would head to Pompano if one of them relocated to Delaware.  My answer was only stupid to the clueless.
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burton
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« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2005, 08:50:39 AM »

Here's my top 10 in no particular order.

Pierce
Sears
Miller
Oulette
Palone
Morgan
Campbell
Manzi
Magee
Ledford

But NOT Pantelano and Parker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Zulu
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« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2005, 09:31:15 AM »

zulu after your post of 7 drivers i think u are another f****ng idiot on here!

Do you have a intelligent response?
This makes absolutely no sense and tells us nothing.
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Careyscardshark
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« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2005, 10:11:14 AM »

Morgan rarely drives against the top drivers, if he did on a consistant basis we would all get a better idea on if he could.  I think he can, don't tell me I'm an idiot for saying that when you have nothing to back up your opinion other than a couple of times Morgan has had one drive while going to Canada or somewhere to drive against them.  He is 2nd in the country in wins, I have a logical opinion in saying he can drive with the big boys.  We can agree to disagree here, but you don't have anymore proof than I do that he can't other than your opinion.
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burton
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« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2005, 10:46:19 AM »

Sears only drove against Palone before he made the top 3 at the BigM?
Morgan could probably do something similiar.
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cumonwire
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« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2005, 12:13:52 PM »

You have to have the horses.  Ask Paisley about his trip to the BigM.  Just as great ballplayers make good managers great managers, great horses make good drivers great drivers.  That is why Sears is great and Campbell is good right now.
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baron
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« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2005, 01:25:14 PM »

Sorry bub, pretty much all you write is stupid and nonsensical. Humurous though, no doubt.

Which part?  There are three separate statements and all are TRUE!  Only the ghost ownership needs clarification.  Morgan was involved behind the scenes as owner in races where there was more than one horse in the race that he had some connection with.  Hence the control factor but more of a gambling factor.  His record at non-bush league tracks speaks for itself.  He gets his ass handed to him by the better drivers.  That's why Pompano and Dover were his first choices.  If money was the true driving force he would have selected the Meadowlands to prove he belongs.

You have confused purse structure with competition.  Dover's regular driver colony is BUSH League!  Slots have increased their purses from 1500 to 15000.  The reason they have so many Delaware owned or bred races is to keep competition OUT!  How many races has Morgan won when competing against Sears,  Miller,  Pierce and other top drivers?  Don't answer,  he only has to race against them on Mondays and he would head to Pompano if one of them relocated to Delaware.  My answer was only stupid to the clueless.
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baron
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« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2005, 01:27:25 PM »

You could say this about any driver, couldn't you?

Steve Warrington kicked ass up at Meadowlands against the big boys. But that was because he was on Sanabelle Island most of those drives.

Horsepower is certainly a big part of the equation. Morgan would be getting the horses that Brennan, Manzi, Ledford get and he would probably be in the lower half of the top 10 ..

Morgan rarely drives against the top drivers, if he did on a consistant basis we would all get a better idea on if he could.  I think he can, don't tell me I'm an idiot for saying that when you have nothing to back up your opinion other than a couple of times Morgan has had one drive while going to Canada or somewhere to drive against them.  He is 2nd in the country in wins, I have a logical opinion in saying he can drive with the big boys.  We can agree to disagree here, but you don't have anymore proof than I do that he can't other than your opinion.
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Chitown Stan
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« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2005, 02:07:52 PM »

Didn't Morgan go to the Meadowlands for 3 weeks about 3 or 4 years ago and come away 0 for about 50? Thats all the proof I need.
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Chitown Stan
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« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2005, 02:09:10 PM »

btw...I love how Morgan got schooled by Jim Morand yesterday as Morand drove E SHopper!! Keep betting him down to 3-5 all you Morgan lovers!
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Careyscardshark
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« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2005, 02:28:11 PM »

I'm done talking about this.  Not because I think you are right, but because this is going nowhere.  I think Morgan could hold his own and make a nice living driving at the Meadowlands against the big boys, you don't.  Until  we actually see him go there this is stupid to argue about.
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trotter1
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« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2005, 03:03:42 PM »

Exactly.
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baron
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« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2005, 03:47:48 PM »

You're right, all you can go on is when he races against teh big boys when they come to Dover and they embarrass him.

Excellent point.


I'm done talking about this.  Not because I think you are right, but because this is going nowhere.  I think Morgan could hold his own and make a nice living driving at the Meadowlands against the big boys, you don't.  Until  we actually see him go there this is stupid to argue about.
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cumonwire
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« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2005, 08:59:17 PM »

#1 Ron Pierce
#2 John Campbell
#3 Dave Magee
#4 Brian Sears
#5 Eric Ledford
#6 Dave Palone
#7 Tony Morgan
#8 Dave Miller
#9 Cat Manzi
#10 George Brennan

Tony Morgan 94 wins in 320 Dover Starts 29%  winners
Ron Pierce  20 wins in 87 Dover Starts  23% winners
Dave Miller 17 wins in 104 Dover Starts
Brian Sears 16 wins in 107 Dover Starts
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Zulu
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« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2005, 09:09:57 PM »

Where is Jim Morrill jr ?
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cumonwire
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« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2005, 09:25:03 PM »

Morrill is behind Yannick Gingras and Mike and Patrick Lachance and Dan Dube
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Chitown Stan
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« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2005, 10:03:42 PM »

Wait a minute, there is no argument. HE ALREADY WENT TO THE MEADOWLANDS AND COULDN'T HANG! Its not like he has never tried it before. HE HAS!
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njhorseman
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« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2005, 10:10:13 PM »

Where is Jim Morrill jr ?


He's in upstate NY, racing at Batavia and Buffalo.
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swoodall
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« Reply #40 on: December 14, 2005, 12:23:36 AM »

Ruckerfan

Your right,  Your PhD in ass kissing trumpets  33 years of observation any day.  I've watch Morgan from day 1 and he has driven my horses a couple of times.  He has even pulled my horse from the entry box and got Hansen's in claiming Aahm Your Man was entered too cheap any way.  Ask Ledford he was training and almost decked him over it.  Morgan selects the company he competes against by who and what he can control.  Just wait until he gets his 6 months residency requirement over at Dover and see how many horses from Chicago show up there under his name/control.  Then compare the ownership to who was listed here.  He will have to put him or Penelope down to meet the Delaware owned or bred requirement.  Unless someone else has relocated there too and we don't know about it.  Why don't you put your money where your nose is and give Morgan's behind a nice comfy place to sit,  like a 25-30 claimer with your name listed as owner.  No need to worry about your investment,  I'm sure he will take care of a big fan like you.  Unlike here,  you would have to tell them your real indentity.
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Zulu
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« Reply #41 on: December 14, 2005, 07:15:57 AM »

He's in upstate NY, racing at Batavia and Buffalo.

Thnaks NJ , I didn`t want to start a seperate thread for the question.
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baron
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« Reply #42 on: December 14, 2005, 09:24:52 AM »

What % of winners you think Pierce and Miller would have if they drove at Dover fulltime?

Somewhere around 97%..


#1 Ron Pierce
#2 John Campbell
#3 Dave Magee
#4 Brian Sears
#5 Eric Ledford
#6 Dave Palone
#7 Tony Morgan
#8 Dave Miller
#9 Cat Manzi
#10 George Brennan

Tony Morgan 94 wins in 320 Dover Starts 29%  winners
Ron Pierce  20 wins in 87 Dover Starts  23% winners
Dave Miller 17 wins in 104 Dover Starts
Brian Sears 16 wins in 107 Dover Starts
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baron
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« Reply #43 on: December 14, 2005, 09:26:40 AM »

Morgan is not bringing in horses from Chicago, that was clearly stated to him in the beginning. (As well as knowing that if they see Chicago horses coming in under someone else's name with him driving). Trust me on this.


Ruckerfan

Your right,  Your PhD in ass kissing trumpets  33 years of observation any day.  I've watch Morgan from day 1 and he has driven my horses a couple of times.  He has even pulled my horse from the entry box and got Hansen's in claiming Aahm Your Man was entered too cheap any way.  Ask Ledford he was training and almost decked him over it.  Morgan selects the company he competes against by who and what he can control.  Just wait until he gets his 6 months residency requirement over at Dover and see how many horses from Chicago show up there under his name/control.  Then compare the ownership to who was listed here.  He will have to put him or Penelope down to meet the Delaware owned or bred requirement.  Unless someone else has relocated there too and we don't know about it.  Why don't you put your money where your nose is and give Morgan's behind a nice comfy place to sit,  like a 25-30 claimer with your name listed as owner.  No need to worry about your investment,  I'm sure he will take care of a big fan like you.  Unlike here,  you would have to tell them your real indentity.
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Heede
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« Reply #44 on: December 14, 2005, 09:47:26 AM »

Morgan is head over heels better than the regular driving colony at Dover.
Like taking candy from a bunch of closed racing babies. I think it is great.
But Illinois is closed when it comes to our stake program.  This is also BULLSH*t.
I know Terry will not like.  I also believe the Cole Mufflers can race with any caliber of horse
out there.  Open it up and bring in a better product.  Shocked Shocked
Something has to change.

Mike VanDeHeede
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baron
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« Reply #45 on: December 14, 2005, 09:58:38 AM »

Why does it have to change? They're privately owned, they can do whatever the hell they want.

Morgan is head over heels better than the regular driving colony at Dover.
Like taking candy from a bunch of closed racing babies. I think it is great.
But Illinois is closed when it comes to our stake program.  This is also BULLSH*t.
I know Terry will not like.  I also believe the Cole Mufflers can race with any caliber of horse
out there.  Open it up and bring in a better product.  Shocked Shocked
Something has to change.

Mike VanDeHeede
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burton
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« Reply #46 on: December 14, 2005, 10:09:09 AM »

Morgan drove against most of the big guns yestaerday and only won 6 races.
Not bad.
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swoodall
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« Reply #47 on: December 14, 2005, 11:30:48 AM »

Baron

I was unaware of them warning him about bringing in Illinois horses.  If your right and it sounds like you know,  then why would he move to Dover if not for the easy pickings!?  In his interview he pointed out the purse structure being supported by slots as his main reason to move there.  If he can't bring in his own horses then that leaves claiming Delaware bred or owned as his only option after his residency requirement is met.
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baron
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« Reply #48 on: December 14, 2005, 11:31:58 AM »

Look at the big picture.. (You won't because it would make you look foolish, so forget it)


Morgan drove against most of the big guns yestaerday and only won 6 races.
Not bad.
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baron
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« Reply #49 on: December 14, 2005, 11:33:08 AM »

I am not sure what your actual question is here. I thought it was quite clear he moved because of the big purses at Dover and the horrible state of Chicago racing. Was that unclear?


Baron

I was unaware of them warning him about bringing in Illinois horses.  If your right and it sounds like you know,  then why would he move to Dover if not for the easy pickings!?  In his interview he pointed out the purse structure being supported by slots as his main reason to move there.  If he can't bring in his own horses then that leaves claiming Delaware bred or owned as his only option after his residency requirement is met.
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swoodall
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« Reply #50 on: December 14, 2005, 12:08:44 PM »

Baron

Forget it once an ***hole always an ***hole.  Morgan listed Pompano as his other choice but it was down for repairs.  Pompano will now have slots/poker and the purses will probably be comparable to Dover.  The difference being he could bring his own horses with him and not have to leave them here or put them in a sale.  Pompano's driver colony is way better than Dover's. Why would he move to a place where he has to dump everything he owns to race.  Delaware is very restrictive to keep guys like Morgan out.  Why would he want to jump through so many hoops when New York and Florida will offer the same opportunity but with less restrictions.  Hence the easy pickings at Dover.  Morgan is a vulture and doesn't want to have to compete for a living.  Purses were not his motivation.  He had other options.  Quite clear are two words that should never be used together in Harness Racing.  Just like honesty and integrity.
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baron
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« Reply #51 on: December 14, 2005, 12:55:34 PM »

Ok, you show me when you see the influx of Chicago horses. It's not going to happen, believe me.

But I know fact is not something you stand by, so we'll go with your conjecture and heresay..Have fun with that

Baron

Forget it once an ***hole always an ***hole.  Morgan listed Pompano as his other choice but it was down for repairs.  Pompano will now have slots/poker and the purses will probably be comparable to Dover.  The difference being he could bring his own horses with him and not have to leave them here or put them in a sale.  Pompano's driver colony is way better than Dover's. Why would he move to a place where he has to dump everything he owns to race.  Delaware is very restrictive to keep guys like Morgan out.  Why would he want to jump through so many hoops when New York and Florida will offer the same opportunity but with less restrictions.  Hence the easy pickings at Dover.  Morgan is a vulture and doesn't want to have to compete for a living.  Purses were not his motivation.  He had other options.  Quite clear are two words that should never be used together in Harness Racing.  Just like honesty and integrity.
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PickfourNYC
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« Reply #52 on: December 14, 2005, 02:34:50 PM »

Not looking to get into a discussion of the merits (or lack thereof) of Morgan as an individual, or how he screwed over the racing establishment in Illinois, since I know nothing about any of this stuff anyway.

However, hard to dispute his skills as a horseman, a guy that's approaching 10,000 career wins with over $60,0000,000 in purses earned.  Clearly he's head over heels better than anyone driving at Dover Downs, and point of fact is, he has to be considered one of the best drivers in the game (no matter what anyone thinks of him personally).  It's too easy to say that when he goes up against the "Big 3" or "Big "4" (Sears, Pierce, Miller, Brennan) that he gets cold cocked by these guys, but then again you are probably talking about the 4 biggest money drivers in the game, who typically are driving the best 4 horses in any given race. 

I'm not praising Morgan, and I'm not denouncing him.  I'm just looking at statistics, and in this case they don't appear to lie.

BTW - someone posted up Johnny C as being one of the best current money drivers in the game.  Not in my opinion anymore, and frankly it hasn't been that way in a long time (or since his wrist injury from a few years ago).  If he's getting top drives, to me that's a classic example of getting someone's good name, without any longer the skills associated with that name.  He know longer keeps a horse alive like he used to, and he doesn't seem to be able to fire a horse as in the past.  These days that name causes many of the horses he's driving to be overbet, and it's a great angle to go against.     
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threewide
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« Reply #53 on: December 14, 2005, 03:06:27 PM »

if Morgan can make more money at Dover,more power to him........the competition isn't up to par,so what?the bottom line is all that matters
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not dead yet laddie,on life support!!
njhorseman
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« Reply #54 on: December 14, 2005, 03:38:07 PM »

Baron

Forget it once an ***hole always an ***hole.  Morgan listed Pompano as his other choice but it was down for repairs.  Pompano will now have slots/poker and the purses will probably be comparable to Dover.  The difference being he could bring his own horses with him and not have to leave them here or put them in a sale.  Pompano's driver colony is way better than Dover's. Why would he move to a place where he has to dump everything he owns to race.  Delaware is very restrictive to keep guys like Morgan out.  Why would he want to jump through so many hoops when New York and Florida will offer the same opportunity but with less restrictions.  Hence the easy pickings at Dover.  Morgan is a vulture and doesn't want to have to compete for a living.  Purses were not his motivation.  He had other options.  Quite clear are two words that should never be used together in Harness Racing.  Just like honesty and integrity.

As usual, you're not one to be confused by the facts.

First, Morgan announced Dover as his choice during an interview at the Little Brown Jug, well  before  the hurricane damaged Pompano.

Second, Florida will have the second highest (to NY) tax rate in the country  on its racino slots, and will be limited to 1,500 machines, so purses are not likely to match Dover's any time soon. The horseman are also not guaranteed any specific percentage of the take, and will have to negotiate with the tracks for whatever they get.
 And, although Gov. Bush called the legislature back into session to pass the enabling legislation, he did so only because he had to comply with the law. In fact, he is backing a move to overturn the constitutional amendment allowing slots, which will be put forth during the 2006 legislative session.
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Idealtowne
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« Reply #55 on: December 14, 2005, 03:41:12 PM »

The only thing clear about morgan is that he's kickin ass out east.
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baron
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« Reply #56 on: December 14, 2005, 05:50:47 PM »

Shhhhh!!!!! You might ruin this guy's whole life if you keep throwing facts at him. He's obviously clueless, not worth the time..


As usual, you're not one to be confused by the facts.

First, Morgan announced Dover as his choice during an interview at the Little Brown Jug, well  before  the hurricane damaged Pompano.

Second, Florida will have the second highest (to NY) tax rate in the country  on its racino slots, and will be limited to 1,500 machines, so purses are not likely to match Dover's any time soon. The horseman are also not guaranteed any specific percentage of the take, and will have to negotiate with the tracks for whatever they get.
 And, although Gov. Bush called the legislature back into session to pass the enabling legislation, he did so only because he had to comply with the law. In fact, he is backing a move to overturn the constitutional amendment allowing slots, which will be put forth during the 2006 legislative session.
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Lester
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« Reply #57 on: December 14, 2005, 07:27:16 PM »

Didn't Morgan go to the Meadowlands for 3 weeks about 3 or 4 years ago and come away 0 for about 50? Thats all the proof I need.


   Thats interesting! I was always under the impression that Morgan won his first ever start at the Meadowlands on Falcon's Scooter.
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swoodall
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« Reply #58 on: December 14, 2005, 07:38:13 PM »

NJhorseman

I have a copy of an interview Morgan gave to the southtown after the brown jug that said he was still undecided!  I'm sure you have a copy in NEW JERSEY!  TC your invited to remind NJhorseman of his limited Chicago knowledge.  As far as Florida is concerned is this a fact or one of your factoids?
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njhorseman
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« Reply #59 on: December 14, 2005, 07:42:57 PM »

NJhorseman

I have a copy of an interview Morgan gave to the southtown after the brown jug that said he was still undecided!  I'm sure you have a copy in NEW JERSEY!  TC your invited to remind NJhorseman of his limited Chicago knowledge.  As far as Florida is concerned is this a fact or one of your factoids?

I saw the interview live on the Jug webcast. It's been documented here and elsewhere right after it occurred. This isn't a matter of opinion.

As far as Florida is concerned, I suggest you check the numerous newspaper and trade press articles that have been written in the last couple of weeks.
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swoodall
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« Reply #60 on: December 14, 2005, 07:53:48 PM »

In the southtown article he was back on the fence.  Everyone in Illinois needs to follow the Florida slot legislation then because if not done the right way slots can be approved and the horsemen still get screwed.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #61 on: December 14, 2005, 07:58:28 PM »

In the southtown article he was back on the fence.  Everyone in Illinois needs to follow the Florida slot legislation then because if not done the right way slots can be approved and the horsemen still get screwed.

Just out of curiosity, what is the date of the article.
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swoodall
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« Reply #62 on: December 14, 2005, 08:17:51 PM »

Njhorsemen

Good question.  My partner who is at the OTB (I can't go there tonight,  wife sick)  said the article was probably done 2-3 weeks before it was printed.  He said when it came out he already knew Morgan was going to Delaware.  My factoid.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #63 on: December 14, 2005, 08:23:20 PM »

Njhorsemen

Good question.  My partner who is at the OTB (I can't go there tonight,  wife sick)  said the article was probably done 2-3 weeks before it was printed.  He said when it came out he already knew Morgan was going to Delaware.  My factoid.

Now there's some top shelf journalism. Publish an interview weeks after it was given, making the interviewee look like he's contradicting himself. Roll Eyes
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