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Author Topic: BLAME THE IRB ATTORNEY AND THE CIRCUIT COURT JUDGE  (Read 2046 times)
Dan Nance
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« on: December 09, 2005, 07:07:48 PM »

Anyone who knows the procedures should be blaming the IRB attorney and the Circuit Court Judge who issued the TRO to allow Rucker to continue to race.

    The IRB attorney should have gone in front of the court and argued that the IRB feels Rucker should not be granted a TRO because of the number of positives he has on his record and keeps getting every few months. If the IRB attorney would have put up a strong argument in front of the Judge that Rucker should serve the time handed down to him maybe the Judge would not have issued the 30 day stay.

    So, blame the IRB attorney and the Judge who granted the stay for allowing Rucker to continue to race. Trainers with excessive numbers of positives should never be awarded TRO's.

Yours Truly
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Richard Breth
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« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2005, 08:04:46 PM »

Not defending Rucker. Cant help notice quite reverance for the legal system due process and hiding behind legal coat tails when we discuss about the troubles of some former and current horsemen posters of this forum. Now when its Rucker its a failure and standing in the way of "justice" all of a sudden. Before him Ryan Anderson it was a failure then too.

Interesting is all. Good for some people but not for others.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2005, 08:24:43 PM »

Richard
             I'm watching the site but I really don't have time to post right now I'm killing them so far at the Big M.

            If you are referring to me and my TRO and injunction remember something. I NEVER had a positive test or was ever in trouble for a rule violation prior or AFTER the 1985 ordeal I had. That's why the Judge awarded me a PERMANENT INJUNCTION along with the fact that the Stewards were Quoted in the Sun-Times as saying their findings showed I took part in any pre-racing of horses with M99. TRO's are easy to obtain but PERMANENT INJUNCTION'S are not easy to get from a Judge.

           Rucker has numerous positives over the years on his record and for that reason alone he should not have not been given a TRO by the Judge. He should have been made to sit out until his appeal hearing just like Dane had to do and other trainers.

         ow back to making money capping horses. This is what I do.   
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burton
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« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2005, 08:32:32 PM »

What you do is sit on this forum 20 hours a day making a complete jackass out of yourself!!!!!!!!!

Happy Holidays ***!!!!!!!!!!!
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TC
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« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2005, 08:34:28 PM »

Not defending Rucker. Cant help notice quite reverance for the legal system due process and hiding behind legal coat tails when we discuss about the troubles of some former and current horsemen posters of this forum. Now when its Rucker its a failure and standing in the way of "justice" all of a sudden. Before him Ryan Anderson it was a failure then too.

Interesting is all. Good for some people but not for others.
RB, how many of these people "hiding" you speak of are CHRONIC abusers of this state's drug testing procedures ?  How many had 15+ positives in the last 3 months ?  How many now have over 50 positives ?  How many are at the windows right now betting $100 TRI wheels, using a horse they know is "loaded" ?  How many have the president of the IHHA and a big owner backing up every move they make, laughing all the way to the bank ?

Shall I go on ?  TC
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Richard Breth
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« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2005, 08:59:58 PM »

RB, how many of these people "hiding" you speak of are CHRONIC abusers of this state's drug testing procedures ?  How many had 15+ positives in the last 3 months ?  How many now have over 50 positives ?  How many are at the windows right now betting $100 TRI wheels, using a horse they know is "loaded" ?  How many have the president of the IHHA and a big owner backing up every move they make, laughing all the way to the bank ?

Shall I go on ?  TC

I was not speaking specfic of Dan. I was talking about everyone here who has gone "into the system" in the past.

If there is a legal process there is a process. I dont think any horsemen should get any chance to overturn steward decisions in court but they do. Joe D has given us many lectures on it. The judge doesnt know about tri wheels and IHHA owners that should not matter to him. If past positive record was brought up it must not made compelling reason to not grant a stay. Judges appear to feel right to make a living in horse racing is most important no matter how bad the crook horseman. Happens all the time. Probaly they know all horsmen are crooks why single out anyone.

Rucker is free for now and doing his business. It will be resolved in time. Some people act like due process that applys to all horsemen and is taking some time in Ruckers case its the end of western civilzation. My thought is if you beleive in the process for you and your friends then shut the hell up when someone else is going thru it and wait for the wheels of justice to turn. Just one mans opinion.
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ZeeGirl
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« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2005, 09:11:57 PM »

Amen, well stated..........
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2005, 09:15:11 PM »

Amen, well stated..........

Zee Girl, Amen for " bad karma ".  Good karma for you.
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TC
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« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2005, 09:15:49 PM »

I was not speaking specfic of Dan. I was talking about everyone here who has gone "into the system" in the past.

If there is a legal process there is a process. I dont think any horsemen should get any chance to overturn steward decisions in court but they do. Joe D has given us many lectures on it. The judge doesnt know about tri wheels and IHHA owners that should not matter to him. If past positive record was brought up it must not made compelling reason to not grant a stay. Judges appear to feel right to make a living in horse racing is most important no matter how bad the crook horseman. Happens all the time. Probaly they know all horsmen are crooks why single out anyone.

Rucker is free for now and doing his business. It will be resolved in time. Some people act like due process that applys to all horsemen and is taking some time in Ruckers case its the end of western civilzation. My thought is if you beleive in the process for you and your friends then shut the hell up when someone else is going thru it and wait for the wheels of justice to turn. Just one mans opinion.
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ZeeGirl
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« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2005, 09:17:50 PM »

Thank you Dan, and the best of Karma to you sir.............
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TC
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« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2005, 09:23:10 PM »

Dan, did you fall on your head ?  This person you're trading karma with is the worst offender of the anti-troll laws on the entire forum !  I guarantee he/she/it is slamming you under another alias as we speak.  I know you are too smart to fall for this whorey hooey.  TC
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ZeeGirl
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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2005, 09:25:47 PM »

LOL
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2005, 11:15:49 PM »

I was not speaking specfic of Dan. I was talking about everyone here who has gone "into the system" in the past.

If there is a legal process there is a process. I dont think any horsemen should get any chance to overturn steward decisions in court but they do. Joe D has given us many lectures on it. The judge doesnt know about tri wheels and IHHA owners that should not matter to him. If past positive record was brought up it must not made compelling reason to not grant a stay. Judges appear to feel right to make a living in horse racing is most important no matter how bad the crook horseman. Happens all the time. Probaly they know all horsmen are crooks why single out anyone.

Rucker is free for now and doing his business. It will be resolved in time. Some people act like due process that applys to all horsemen and is taking some time in Ruckers case its the end of western civilzation. My thought is if you beleive in the process for you and your friends then shut the hell up when someone else is going thru it and wait for the wheels of justice to turn. Just one mans opinion.

This didn't happen years ago. if you were suspended you served your time from the get go.
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Richard Breth
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« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2005, 11:25:26 PM »

This didn't happen years ago. if you were suspended you served your time from the get go.

That was before my time. Was racing better or worse then? When the crooks "went to jail" without passing Go.
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Richard Breth
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« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2005, 11:28:46 PM »

Who was the first azzhole trainer who went to court to get a stay or TRO to not serve his suspension? That is the azzhole we should all blame for the decline of Illinois racing.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2005, 11:30:23 PM »

Who was the first azzhole trainer who went to court to get a stay or TRO to not serve his suspension? That is the azzhole we should all blame for the decline of Illinois racing.

Maybe it was Jerry Graham back in 1980 with the sublamaze positives he got on all those monsters he raced.
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TC
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« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2005, 12:51:47 AM »

Rich, no offense, but given the applicant's CLEAR pattern of abusing the rules regarding TRAINER RESPONSIBILITY here, why should any dim-witted judge give him a TRO ?  This stable has run afoul of the rules time after time after time.  The term is repeat offender or chronic abuser.  No accord should be given in this particular case IMO.  Furthermore, this guy should be suspended immediately and should get a stay ONLY if contradictory evidence can clearly show that this person IN NO WAY violated the TRAINER RESPONSIBILITY rules.  IMO, I can't imagine any scenario including this.  TC
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icare
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« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2005, 01:22:01 AM »

how can rucker get a tro with his passed? How can they turn Dane down he has never had a bute over? I would like to know, Could Dane have got a stay? Rucker has had many. Rick I would be on this if I was you.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2005, 01:23:03 AM »

Rich, no offense, but given the applicant's CLEAR pattern of abusing the rules regarding TRAINER RESPONSIBILITY here, why should any dim-witted judge give him a TRO ?  This stable has run afoul of the rules time after time after time.  The term is repeat offender or chronic abuser.  No accord should be given in this particular case IMO.  Furthermore, this guy should be suspended immediately and should get a stay ONLY if contradictory evidence can clearly show that this person IN NO WAY violated the TRAINER RESPONSIBILITY rules.  IMO, I can't imagine any scenario including this.  TC

TC
         Richard went to bed. He was having chest pains from shoveling snow. Besides, he doesn't understand a thing about harness racing. I don't even know why he reads and posts on this site. Now he's mad because it wasn't me who got the first ever TRO.

    TC
         Do you know if Tom Wendt got a TRO and went back to selling insurance? Or do they only hand out TRO's to horseman like they are handing out bread to homeless people?
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icare
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« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2005, 01:27:25 AM »

I hope thay give bread to horsemen we'll be needing it.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2005, 01:32:46 AM »

I hope thay give bread to horsemen we'll be needing it.

Ken Rucker stole all the horseman's bread and left them with crumbs. Marty Engel and Sid Weiner will be dropping off care packages for the horseman that will contain their unused bottles of gout medication along with some left over powder of cocaine. 
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icare
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« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2005, 01:36:45 AM »

Ken Rucker stole all the horseman's bread and left them with crumbs. Marty Engel and Sid Weiner will be dropping off care packages for the horseman that will contain their unused bottles of gout medication along with some left over powder of cocaine. 

Thats what makes me so mad the cheats are taking food off the table plus they are making the good trainers look like they dont have a clue
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2005, 01:45:41 AM »

Thats what makes me so mad the cheats are taking food off the table plus they are making the good trainers look like they dont have a clue

Buy lottery tickets and hope you win so you can retire and live the good life. Mom's lottery ran out two years ago. She only got 69K after taxes a year and had to live on that being alone. Everyone thought she was rich winning that money but spread out over 20 years it doesn't do nothing for you. Now you can take one lump sum and do something with it, back when she won you couldn't.

   I'm glad I got out when I did in 99. It must be brutal back there now. I thank God everyday I have the life I have right now. And what we have.  I could be back there suffering with the rest of the horseman. I feel bad for most of you. Keep a stiff upper lip and hope for the best. 
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icare
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« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2005, 01:53:30 AM »

Buy lottery tickets and hope you win so you can retire and live the good life. Mom's lottery ran out two years ago. She only got 69K after taxes a year and had to live on that being alone. Everyone thought she was rich winning that money but spread out over 20 years it doesn't do nothing for you. Now you can take one lump sum and do something with it, back when she won you couldn't.

   I'm glad I got out when I did in 99. It must be brutal back there now. I thank God everyday I have the life I have right now. And what we have.  I could be back there suffering with the rest of the horseman. I feel bad for most of you. Keep a stiff upper lip and hope for the best. 


Im ganna do that I have never bought one in my life wish me luck i'll let you know if i win.

by the way most hosemen cant buy one no money, we should all put in $5 every week it would be fun an maybe we'll we some big money
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John Doe
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« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2005, 03:14:01 AM »

Who was the first azzhole trainer who went to court to get a stay or TRO to not serve his suspension? That is the azzhole we should all blame for the decline of Illinois racing.

Rich:

     I know you better than that. You obviously know my position on this case. Just like everyone else, Rucker is entitled to have his rights respected, file an appeal, and receive his due process of law. There was not any first azzhole who went to court and obtained a TRO in the name of justice. I don't care if a horseman gets 100 positive tests, they still have rights and the IRB must go through proper procedures to ensure that the accused receive his/her fair and just hearing. The problem I have with the IRB administrative hearing process is that it is applied unevenly and unparallel, meaning different rules for different fools. That is what is wrong with the entire The Horse Racing Act of 1975. It is old, outdated, and applied to different people at different times. That my friend is unfair and unjust.

      What Dan is saying does have some merit because violators are treated much differently today as opposed to years gone by. Over the last 20 years, attorneys became interested in racetrack law and a quest for justice for their clients. This was supposed to force the IRB to change their procedures and be held accountable for their actions. I think the only thing horsemen today want is one set of rules and regulations that are applied equally across the board. It’s not too hard to achieve. Unfortunately, it appears that the IRB is failing miserably as horseracings governing body and as an administrative agency as well. Although they have a tough job to do, I don't believe it is asking too much for the rules to be applied just and equally to all participants, period. That does not happen in Illinois, which is the reason why people like Dan, Tc, and myself speak out. I have a real problem when I see the corruption poisoning the IRB as it has. For an administrative agency to work, be successful, and develop a respect from society, it must be squeaky clean, honest, fair, and act in the same manner all of the time, no matter whom or what is involved. My point is, the next time you point a finger at a horsemen you feel is cheating, think about the cheating and dishonest polices and procedures administered by the IRB in a most unfair and unjust manner. I might get shot down on this but I think we would all agree that there must be rules and regulations in any facet of life. The real problem arises when those rules and regulations we speak of are applied to certain people at certain times and others when they feel like it. That is not good.  As far as I am concerned, Rucker has not done a thing wrong until he is convicted of wrongdoing in a circuit court of law, not some silly IRB administrative hearing process that is full of corruption and deceit.


To Dan ***:
      I am not sure if you knew this but, the IRB attorney has not a word to say when any case is appealed and goes to either circuit or chancery court. That is the beauty of it all;  when the case leaves the administrative agency process and goes to court, the Attorney General's office takes over representation of the IRB and state at that time. Very often the AG who represents the IRB and state is green and really not up on racetrack law. They are going through the motions and have a understanding that the IRB is very often wrong in the way things were handled. Nowadays, when one files an appeal in court seeking a TRO, it becomes a total crapshoot on whether or not you will be successful in obtaining one or not. It all depends on what judge you get and his/her position on matters like this. You are certainly entitled to file for one SOJ (substitute of judge) if you do not feel comfortable with the judge that was originally assigned to the case. There are good judges whom feel obligated to allow the accused the opportunity to still work and be employed at the track, while others feel they are within their own power by denying the TRO. I have seen cases where the judge gets really pissed off at the IRB for sending this case to their courtroom. It is an expensive pursuit and one that I must admit, is fair and just once you get in court. I have no problem with our current Justice System as long as there are not any rights violated and the accused gets his/her day in court. Is it a perfect system, no, but please tell me what is? Dan, I guarantee you one thing, just ask your brother Scott where he was treated fairly and was considered innocent until proven guilty. You can bet the answer will not be at the IRB administrative hearing! Take care.

Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras
(A UNLV Runnin Rebel For Life)
« Last Edit: December 10, 2005, 03:32:06 AM by JDakuras » Report to moderator   Logged

AND NOW, HERE ARE YOUR UNLV 1990 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS:
                       GREG ANTHONY
                       ANDERSON HUNT
                       MOSES SCURRY
                       STACEY AUGMON
                       LARRY JOHNSON
THE BEST COACH EVER, JERRY "TARK" TARKANIAN
THIS IS HEAVEN
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